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Adding backdoors: a second jumpgate network 'layer' (exploration)

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Agnar Koladrov Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.05 13:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 05/06/2007 13:45:19 Just had the idea while dreaming my way trough Spy Stash l3 mission. I hadden`t yet seen the new version of it so was surprised to see the jumpgate in the last room and ofcource it didn`t work, oh well. Seen this idea flung arround here once or twice in one form or the other, but that was before exploration came to life. Add in an other network layer of jumpgates to the EVE universe (not on the map). Only linking some systems, so it not being a complete gate network. Thus adding backdoor networks to some high/low/0.0 systems. For the, non-conspicuous, persons in this universe or other peeps with low sec rating whom cannot use the normal gates, for example. Gates will be guarded by your local pirate faction, so one need to get either friendly with them or just pew pew pew them. (I think it could work in the current system, though it`ll be an arse to locate these things trough the current way exploration works, but thats an other thing) Ofcource these 'gates' do not appear on overview and have to be bookmarked to be used, thus no warp to 0. Thats kinda the idea in short version. I think this would be a nice addition to the game, one that frankly didn`t understood why it wasn`t ingame already, 'backdoors' that is. ps. why is my forum icon still borked, as in my old portrait? Yes I cleared me cache. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.05 14:53:00 - [2] Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 05/06/2007 13:45:19 Ofcource these 'gates' do not appear on overview and have to be bookmarked to be used, thus no warp to 0. ummm, you can warp to 0 km of bookmarks too... but not some spot in a deadspace. this is a good idea in general, except the "network" of backdoors could not be static if it used normal exploration sites, which despawn once completed. perhaps such "stargate" sites would last for a preset amount of time, visible as an expidition timer. the gates should usually shortcut a long and dangerous route. on the other side, it would have a similar exploration site that you come out of, and can use to return until the timer runs out. having "temporary" stargates will go a long way to prevent them from being camped and establishing trade routes, etc. they could last as long as a week, but should not be permanent. and they don't have to be normal gates, they could be spatial rifts or wormholes. that would make more sense if they are "temporary" and take you a longer distance than normal stargates. personally, i think they should take you to entire systems that are not on the map. the secret systems might be static and permanent, but not the spatial rifts that get you there. their sun could be like a black hole or something too, to explain the spatial rifts. it could have several inside, which could be used to short circuit 30 or 40 jumps if you knew where they would take you. obviously, the ones inside the secret system should appear on overview. but the endpoints in "normal" space would all be exploration sites, that move around. very cool concepts to think about indeed... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.05 14:55:00 - [3] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/06/2007 14:54:02 I love the idea. A "backdoor" network could be extremely interesting and would be either valuable or a curse depending on who had the bookmark to it. How about making these "backdoor" networks one-way jumps only? You know, Tradewars 2002 style --23 Member--
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.05 14:56:00 - [4] Sounds interesting. How about the ability to find unstable gates that keeping vanishing. Maybe another skill (or module+skill) that lets you fix the gate for up to an hour. In effect Exploration might be a way to establish a temporary back door into 0.0 for sneaking in..or maybe for a rescue mission. With a little work it could turn into a great game of 'hunt the wabbit' :) -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Ki Shon Gallente Shon Ju	Posted - 2007.06.05 15:02:00 - [5] I love that idea!
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.06.05 15:05:00 - [6] To Op: Yes a fantastic idea. I've always wanted to use the Stargates in missions instead of jsut blowing them up so I can see teh purdy sparkle. But perhaps if they moved around at random as well, instead of having people camp the mission gate 23/7 because they don't want people to come into their system 120 jumps away... lol this is a great idea Please Help me, YOU could be next!
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.05 15:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Andrue Sounds interesting. How about the ability to find unstable gates that keeping vanishing. Maybe another skill (or module+skill) that lets you fix the gate for up to an hour. In effect Exploration might be a way to establish a temporary back door into 0.0 for sneaking in..or maybe for a rescue mission. With a little work it could turn into a great game of 'hunt the wabbit' :) Or - EVE gate style - a deployable structure that 'ancors' temporary wormholes creating player-created stargates. You find these wormholes similar to normal exploration means (ie they're temporary, and randomly created - random destination too) but if you want to keep them permenant you need to deploy an expensive structure near them. If the structure is destroyed the wormhole collapses. Would be more dynamic and involve the players more, creating a player-created network of gates (which is the point of EVE IMO - player created content). --------- EVE is like a box of chocolates. omg nerf chocolates D:
Igus	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: Andrue Sounds interesting. How about the ability to find unstable gates that keeping vanishing. Maybe another skill (or module+skill) that lets you fix the gate for up to an hour. In effect Exploration might be a way to establish a temporary back door into 0.0 for sneaking in..or maybe for a rescue mission. With a little work it could turn into a great game of 'hunt the wabbit' :) Or - EVE gate style - a deployable structure that 'ancors' temporary wormholes creating player-created stargates. You find these wormholes similar to normal exploration means (ie they're temporary, and randomly created - random destination too) but if you want to keep them permenant you need to deploy an expensive structure near them. If the structure is destroyed the wormhole collapses. Would be more dynamic and involve the players more, creating a player-created network of gates (which is the point of EVE IMO - player created content). Haha that was exactly what i was thinking
Sanctus Maleficus Oberon Incorporated Oberon Imperial Governance	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari You know, Tradewars 2002 style Hahah I was just about to post this! There was nothing better/worse in TW2002 than thinking you had a dead end system with 8293472384 fighters blocking it off, to have someone just pop in from some one way. You learn fast, after that. That does bring up a point though, in TW, you could create autopilot paths while excluding specific systems... it'd be nice to have that in eve.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.05 16:54:00 - [10] To Alora Venoda: Yeah that is sort of the only problem with the idea. Exploration sites only last X ammount fo time. Therefor I though that you could have 2 sorts of exploration sites, the normal once we have now and a static type, which would have to be Extremely difficult to find. The original idea came from the 'Ancient Stargate' in that level. I personally have no problem with respawning jump points, only how do you explain these temporary gates? You could if it were anomilies, but 'lost gates' idea have a much more...how can you put it...misterious feel to it. Quote: ummm, you can warp to 0 km of bookmarks too... but not some spot in a deadspace. That was the idea yes, 1 gate in 1 deadspace pocket. They sould be no easy quick backdoor travel route in, like warp to 0 is now on normal gates. The bookmark site is also not the fastest way to travel. Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/06/2007 14:54:02 I love the idea. A "backdoor" network could be extremely interesting and would be either valuable or a curse depending on who had the bookmark to it. How about making these "backdoor" networks one-way jumps only? You know, Tradewars 2002 style Hmm not thought of the one way thing, interesting! Yes, would make some areas a whole lot more interesting, espacially if you have to probe out the next non official gate. Moving the gates arround a system posses an other problem aswell: how are these gates moved? This is ofcource more from an RP perspective, but you have to have a believeble story behind the mechanics. Anomelies could solve it, but I personally think that that would be odd, as there are no other anomelies in the current universe to interact with etc. The only way to avoid the gates to become gank points etc, is for them to be extremely difficult to find. Couple that with the disability to copy the bookmark and some gates being one way only. Then you can have 3 sorts of gates: - truely undiscovered (static), not 'used' by any pnc factions (RP) - undiscovered (static), 'used' by NPC factions - travel anomelies (dynamic), appearing at 'random' locations in a system and being random 1 or 2 way, respawning x days Players will have to work together (gang) for the others to also bookmark the gate site. I think because of this, not a "lot" of people will have the bookmarks to these (static) sites and the sites will not be camped in the way we see now arround some areas. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
Sean Drake Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:22:00 - [11] Hmmm pretty sure this was planned once way back in the dark distant past of early EvE under the name of smugglers gates or some such but it got dropped quitely and with not much mention of why?
Corb Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.05 17:28:00 - [12] I've always dreamed of finding a gate that led to my own personal solar system, and I could put a password on the gate to keep ppl from interferring with me running around my own personal solar system naked wilst waving my arms to and fro screaming....lalalalalalalala It would also be a solar system without correct grammar and punctuation....and world without commmas if you will...
Drama Kirlan Gallente Rush Industries	Posted - 2007.06.05 18:17:00 - [13] I'm sure our favorate matari rights activist would love more "backdoors"
Dragonrazor Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.06 04:58:00 - [14] Love the idea, while I don't like some of the suggestions on implementation :) I could see these back doors as being a way to spark off a change in how 0.0 alliances claim and hold territory... amongst other things. 1: I like the idea of these back doors being made up predominantly of the following: temporary Anomalies (rifts, wormholes whatever) that last for 1d4x12 hours or something. And semi functional NPC gates that can only be reached by say, going through a complex, or something. Ie a place you can't camp without risk from powerful NPC's... But would otherwise be static. 2: I love the idea of PC's being able to build and use jump gates, and include POS defenses and such around them (but no shield or something). These would be off the map, and require either a beacon which only corp/alliance mates can tune in on without scanning for them or having the BM on hand. So many possibilities with this idea that would benefit eve. If it was done right, it would be a great new bone for those who like to explore giving them something of value to other players to find... not just something you do for an agent. Indeed, I remember in the old days when CCP made it sound like exploration would be a real pastime, where you could spend hours in a system flying around, scanning and so on and find rare asteroids, rare objects to loot or plunder and more... Things that would be random and non renewable and would not respawn in the same places twice in the same system once depleted in that location (a large rogue asteroid rich in rare minerals) which would be something worth a few fistfuls of ISK to the right person... the explorer could sell the location to the highest bidder/s, and people could fight over them when found. All such things should be considered low sec, even when in high sec systems (as they are off the beaten path) and allow for unsanctioned combat without Concord involvement, thus increasing the risk for using/finding them. Maybe slap a few NPC spawns near some of these as well to increase risk in low sec/0.0 space (IE fight off an NPC battleship and a small gang of PVP gankers while trying to mine the rare roid in high sec.). These fits right in with the backdoor ideas IMHO and the two could in some ways work similarly. ******************************************* "Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..." *******************************************
Mud Pandemonium Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.06 05:03:00 - [15] I'd like to hear what Backdoor Bandit has to say about this idea.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.06 05:04:00 - [16] I mentioned this idea well over a year ago and it was not welcomed warmly. I made another post last week... and the crickets received it well. My Post All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.06 07:58:00 - [17] Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Thank You SkyFlyer
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 08:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/06/2007 14:54:02 I love the idea. A "backdoor" network could be extremely interesting and would be either valuable or a curse depending on who had the bookmark to it. How about making these "backdoor" networks one-way jumps only? You know, Tradewars 2002 style o0! Now that would be cool! I love this idea.
Ruddger Minmatar Acheron Vanguard Armada	Posted - 2007.06.06 08:45:00 - [19] I think this is an awesome idea, here is how I would like to implement it. All the gates are from pre-empire days, so to use them they must be fueled to use. (A nice chance to add an isk sink) There are a fixed number of these "back door" gates throughout EVE and they are permanent. However they are also destructible, and there is a beacon at the exit point referencing the gate location (both out in deadspace), so if you had a gate that you were launching attacks from deep into an alliances territory they could probe out the beacon, find out where the gate was and destroy it. Once a gate is destroyed a new gate is randomly spawned somewhere else in EVE to keep the number of back doors static but their placement dynamic.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.06.06 09:24:00 - [20] just waiting for a dev comment maybe this is better off in features and dieas forum
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.06 09:29:00 - [21] Love the idea, but it'd had to be implemented carefully as to not imbalance certain regions or areas. (limiting them to in-region jumps for example, preferably from one end to the other)

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