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Modulus Morphone
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Posted - 2007.06.05 16:45:00 -
[1]
Anyone have any advice or guides to read about using these types of ships for Pirating? I will be doing it mainly solo but at times with my brother as backup (cruiser and possibly something bigger in the future). I prefer the smaller ships and the sneaky EW geared playstyle fits me like a glove.
I would love to learn what kind of PvP I can expect to have fun with while using a Recon or Covert Ops ship... And any modules or skills that I should concentrate on getting.
Of course, if these types of ships are just horrible for ransoming than I guess I'd like to know that too.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Modulus
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige 9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:10:00 -
[2]
They're a pirating dream as long as you dn't get blobbed. Every time i've tried I get blobbed and that's why i'm sticking to T1 ships for a while (actually i've stopped playing Eve entirely, but if I was... i'd use T1 ships).
The Force Recons are excellent at belt piracy, but not so hot at station or gate piracy cause you're going to struggle to tank the sentries (none of this matters if you're in 0.0). Of all of them, the Arazu and Pilgrim shine. Being totally in control who where and who you fight is invaluable, and you can totally cripple the opponent's ship with your EW and he can do very little in response. My alt's Pilgrim continually beat up my Blasterthron cause 3x TDs with a rig, the ship bonus and good skills are insanely effective. Even when webbed and practically stationary, they weren't hitting at all.
Howeevr, you're always going to meet stuff that you can't put down with your EW, e.g: something fast with a fast lock, e.g: Deimos will beat up an Arazu, a missile ship will make problems for a Pilgrim, which is why Recons work best in pairs. Arazu + Pilgrim is a scary pairing. Likewise Falcon + Arazu, constantly losing your lock and then having a 60sec+ relock time has got to suck.
As a rule, you can only take on one ship at a time generally, but you will totally dominate that one ship.
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Originally by: Wild Rho I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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Morbius Bloodstar
FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:13:00 -
[3]
I know that I've been ransomed a couple of times by a Pilgrim, and I'll tell you it's a pretty damn terrifying experience if you're not expecting it.
Pilgrims are one of those ships that can totally disable you without having to fire a shot so to speak. They can warp in cloaked, sneak up on you, get within their optimal engagement range, then drop cloak, put a scrambler, web, tracking disruptor/other e-war module on you, suck your cap bone dry with a combination of Neuts/NOS and basically leave you sitting dead in space in no time flat. If you decide you *do* want to fight, then you have to deal with their drones and a good tank, and those in themselves can be pretty damn nasty w/ good skills.
Back when I originally made this toon, I was going to be a pirate and my end game ship to fly was going to be the Pilgrim.. they're just nasty. Even flying around solo or in small group ops in 0.0, they're still very useful ships, and best of all, you have a couple more different playstyles open and available to you that you wouldn't normally be able to do in a 'visible' ship.
Alternatively, I've also been looking at an Arazu as a very competent recon ship. You still have the benefit of the cloak, a 'decent' sized drone bay (40m3), and lots of mids for the fun tools needed to lock down an opponent. The sensor dampener/warp scrambler ship bonuses means you can warp in at 30k and easily dampen/scramble them to the point that they can't even target you. If they do manage to get close enough to get a lock, it's going to take forever w/ 2-3 dampeners on them, and if you toss a cycle of target jamming on them every now and again, you've basically hosed them outright.
If it were me, and I was looking to commit to a life of YARR in the elusively sneaky recon ships, I'd say it'd have to be a toss up between those two. The combat recons are also VERY nice ships.. especially the Curse, but I just love that CovOps cloak too much to want to give it up. I'm finishing up my Gallente HAC skills now, and then going straight for Recon Ships so fly that Arazu, then getting Amarr Cruiser to 5 so I can pick my Pilgrim
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Laughing Mime
Gallente Republic
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:21:00 -
[4]
Losses and kills in solo pirating have less to do with what ship you are in and more to do with experience, you WILL die in this initial learning period so it would be better to lose an inexpensive ship.
Start of with a cheaper ship first(bc or cruiser will do). Once you have mastered the scanner and have a ship last 1 week of solid piracy.. then start using your shiny new curse.
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Morda Meyhem
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:36:00 -
[5]
Wow, great responses thanks... I'm so happy to hear that my hunch about recon and covert ops ships being good at pirating were correct. Yeah, I plan on belt pirating and doing it against one target at a time mainly. Just seems to be my style. Like I said, there will be times when I've got my little brothers big ass ship as backup (not sure what that will be just yet) so that will be interesting.
In any case, thanks for the replies... If anyone has any additional thoughts, I would like to hear them.
and btw, I'm definetly not planning on starting my piracy career in one of those expensive ships... I've still got 3 days on my trial account and I'm about to buy my first cruiser. Once I do I'll use some T1 Frigates to get acclimated to this whole thing before even thinking about taking out my Arazu or whatever I decide to get.
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Morbius Bloodstar
FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:56:00 -
[6]
If you're still flying around in t1 frigs on a trial account then definitely get some practice in with some PvP in those smaller ships first. There are some excellent frigs you can practice in, depending on race.
Caldari: Rocket Kestrel FTW!! If you have several like minded individuals and feel like causing some trouble, fit 3-4 of you in rocket kestrels and fly in packs looking for macro'ers in places like Jita. You would be surprised how much collateral damage you can do with 3-4 throwaway ships valued at 200-400k per shot before you get Concorded. Alternatively, you can setup for a bit more range and use light missiles and speed to orbit and pump warheads into your target while relying on your high orbit speed to keep you (relatively) safe.
Amarr: Punishers are great for piracy due to their high cap and good ship bonus based resists. You can fit them with something like autocannons which use no cap, build up a decent tank and go to town on other unsuspecting polots. Punishers are VERY capable ships in the hands of a skilled pilot.
Minmatar: Rifters are excellent frigates; they can put out decent damage, are fairly NOS proof, and can fill a variety of roles. Problem with them is that they're kind of fragile, and you'll be relying on your speed more than anything else to keep you safe while you whittle away at your target.
I've not done much PvP in Gallente t1 frigates, so I can't really give you much advice there, but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there that can give you a hand. I can tell you from first hand experience, however, that the above ships will serve you very well as far as t1 frigs go; each easily capable of taking out ships of equal or larger size. I have personally gone toe to toe with a few different ships in a Rifter and was very impressed with it's potential, and my skills were fairly weak at the time.. it scares me to think what these little guys are capable of in the hands of a well SP'ed and skilled pilot.
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Laughing Mime
Gallente Republic
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Posted - 2007.06.05 18:20:00 -
[7]
Aim for battlecruisers before you start the big train times for recon, my original goal was the same as yours but after hopping into my first hurricane i was converted :).
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ElMartino
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Posted - 2007.06.06 04:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Laughing Mime Aim for battlecruisers before you start the big train times for recon, my original goal was the same as yours but after hopping into my first hurricane i was converted :).
Good point. BC are good insurable wich is nice when pirating. And they have good enough dps and tanking to do the thrick. Most skills u can use for BC u can also use for HAC (and if u ever want to go command u need the BC V also), so no time wasted.
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Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.06 05:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Morbius Bloodstar The combat recons are also VERY nice ships.. especially the Curse, but I just love that CovOps cloak too much to want to give it up.
I was like that too, but then I bought a Lachesis just to try it out. 1 extra mid slot, 2 rapid-firing launchers + 3 railguns, faster locking time. The Arazu only gets undocked now if I know for sure I'm going out solo or if the cov ops cloak will come in real handy (eg. slipping through a gate camp or into enemy space). Not to mention it's a whole lot cheaper.
For small gang work I take the Lachesis, I'm considering it for fleets too since it can be fitted with 6 dampeners easily. But there's that whole "shoot the EW boat first" thing...
For combos, pretty much any 2 recon ships will make an evil combo. Gallente + Caldari for severe locking frustration. Gallente + Minmatar for disgusting long-range tackling. Anything + Amarr for switching off your target. God I love these ships <3
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Zhulik
Abyss Restless Proper Response
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Posted - 2007.06.06 06:34:00 -
[10]
Arazu and Rapier make for a great duo. Not all that deadly, but extremely frustrating for those on the wrong side of webs and damps.
Besides, you can name those two ships "cloak" and "dagger" and feel very sneaky.
Ours are named Icingdeath and Twinkle though, which isn't as sneaky, but has a nice nerdish ring to it. Marx and Engels would be a great combo as well.
Well, I seem to have contributed... nothing to this thread. _________ Unless otherwise noted, the gibberish I blurt out has absolutely nothing to do with my corp's or alliance's opinions. |
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Father Weebles
North Face Force Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.06 07:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 06/06/2007 07:49:16 pilgrim is prob the best npc killer
arazu is also good but lack the dps and nos that the pilgrim has
huginn and a rapier aren't so good at killing npcers because 90% of npcsers fly caldari and webs are practically pointless against them. + kin missiles hurtzor
falcon doesnt have the dps, rook has more but im not sure if it has enough to break a ravens tank.
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kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.06.06 08:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zhulik Arazu and Rapier make for a great duo. Not all that deadly, but extremely frustrating for those on the wrong side of webs and damps.
Besides, you can name those two ships "cloak" and "dagger" and feel very sneaky.
Ours are named Icingdeath and Twinkle though, which isn't as sneaky, but has a nice nerdish ring to it. Marx and Engels would be a great combo as well.
Well, I seem to have contributed... nothing to this thread.
I pew therefore I am.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.06 09:28:00 -
[13]
I don't recommend using a pilgrim for belt piracy when you can fly the curse.
The reason is, that as long as there is local, all the local carebears will see your shiny blinky butt enter local, and leg it anyway when they notice you.
If you warp to their belt before they noticed you, you will get them anyway. A speedfitted curse or huginn will get to the belt faster and get that point on the target faster.
There is one distinct advantage in lowsec with a pilgrim though. You can't really get ganked at a gate, unless you are extremely unlucky and get uncloaked by a corpse or something.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
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Posted - 2007.06.06 10:55:00 -
[14]
I haven't used my Rapier for piracy since the ECM nerf. But anyways, any of the fast hard hitting recons will work, if there are any. Other than that, stick to a vaga ;)
V i L e - Recruiting Pirates |
VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Father Weebles Edited by: Father Weebles on 06/06/2007 07:49:16
huginn and a rapier aren't so good at killing npcers because 90% of npcsers fly caldari and webs are practically pointless against them. + kin missiles hurtzor
Fit damps on them.
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Gaius Vitellius
Minmatar Blackwater Consulting
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Father Weebles Edited by: Father Weebles on 06/06/2007 07:49:16
huginn and a rapier aren't so good at killing npcers because 90% of npcsers fly caldari and webs are practically pointless against them. + kin missiles hurtzor
Fit damps on them.
Spot on!
If your missioner hunting fill your mids with AB, Scram, Web, 2xPhased Damps, 1 LSE T2. Top it off with 2xDamp Rigs + L4 Spec skill.
You will easily out-run them (Battleships go about 50ms tops webbed in a mission), they won't be able to lock you, and their drones die long before you do (thanks to the shield resists on the Rapier). The only thing that will touch you at that point is FoF missles, and it is rare for a mission boat to fit them. And in the rare cases they did load some, the missles will be shooting at you, your drones, NPC's, structures, etc.. Quite tankable until he goes squish.
(The above post is not theory, this load has been successful at eliminating more than one "Caldari Online" mission ship)
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:40:00 -
[17]
AB?!
AB is the most useless module in eve. Well, I guess apart from it being useful in deadspace complexes.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Gaius Vitellius
Minmatar Blackwater Consulting
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ryysa AB?!
AB is the most useless module in eve. Well, I guess apart from it being useful in deadspace complexes.
Read the post.. Hunting MISSION runners.. MWD does not work in a mission, so you either AB or you slow boat it.
Personally I use an AB 90% of the time in my Rapier. With the web range I rarely require a MWD to keep my distance.
MWD/AB is really a matter of personal preference with the Rapier, with a larger anti-gate camp advantage for the MWD.
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Ryysa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ryysa on 07/06/2007 18:55:34
Originally by: Gaius Vitellius
Originally by: Ryysa AB?!
AB is the most useless module in eve. Well, I guess apart from it being useful in deadspace complexes.
Read the post.. Hunting MISSION runners.. MWD does not work in a mission, so you either AB or you slow boat it.
Hmm, last time I checked it was pretty much impossible to probe someone in a mission. Have they changed that lately?
Quote: Personally I use an AB 90% of the time in my Rapier. With the web range I rarely require a MWD to keep my distance.
And you die every time you jump into a decent gatecamp? Not fitting MWD on rapier or huginn is very very silly, since you can't possibly web down 3-4 targets who might be coming for you.
Quote: MWD/AB is really a matter of personal preference with the Rapier, with a larger anti-gate camp advantage for the MWD.
You're the first person I've ever seen who is fitting an AB instead of a MWD on Rapier, and that with good reason.
EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ryysa Hmm, last time I checked it was pretty much impossible to probe someone in a mission. Have they changed that lately?
It is somewhat possible. If you have lots of bookmarks around the "mission" planes on top and buttom in the mission system you can use multiple snoops to increase your chances to find the runner. It might be even an option to use racial exploration probes since they have a LOT higher sensor strengths.
You need to have a mission runner who never bothers to check for scan probes in the 5+ minutes it takes you to find him, though, and who also never moves away from his gate and/or does not allign as safety measure.
So in the end it's really the same thing as with belt-hunting. You only catch the stupid.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:14:00 -
[21]
From what I've read, when probing things in deadspace the probes have effectively 1/100 of their actual signal strength. So it's not impossible to probe down someone in a mission, it's just unlikely. The snoop probe will get a BS fairly quickly if you're lucky enough to get someone in a mission deadspace that's 3 AU or less from a path between two celestial objects.
It'll take awhile and is really luck-based, but remember there's people who run lowsec missions who have like 20 billion ISK invested on their ships that you can pirate.
Also, a LOT of missions aren't in deadspace. This makes probing these people down and killing them easy.
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Gaius Vitellius
Minmatar Blackwater Consulting
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ryysa
Hmm, last time I checked it was pretty much impossible to probe someone in a mission. Have they changed that lately?
Actually the wife and I probe missioners down all the time. It takes either decent bookmarks in mission systems (you get to add a new BM each time you find a missioner), decent skills, or someone who uses drones. From hunting the Isk-Mission farmer plague in Lustrevik, I average 5 minutes or so to probe down a good target. (Lots of bookmarks within 4AU at this point)
There have even been some recent posts about people being found while missioning. (Most players don't read the boards, so they don't know how they can be found). In packed systems it gets even easier, as the odds of finding SOMEONE increases exponentially.
Originally by: Ryysa
And you die every time you jump into a decent gatecamp? Not fitting MWD on rapier or huginn is very very silly, since you can't possibly web down 3-4 targets who might be coming for you.
I admit I haven't been in a good 0.0 gate camp with my Rapier. I have run a few Low-Sec camps, and for those the AB is fine. When I start doing covert work in 0.0, you can bet the AB will be replaced rather quickly.
Originally by: Ryysa
You're the first person I've ever seen who is fitting an AB instead of a MWD on Rapier, and that with good reason.
Actually I have seen quite a number of builds with just the AB. The difference seems to be Low-Sec vs. 0.0. Low-Sec camps don't have warp bubbles and jump-cloak-warp will get you out of them even if you don't have any propulsion mods.
The point I think you are missing is most Mission-Runner hunts are done in High-Sec/Low-Sec... Which calls for a totally different ship setup. (Like my AB-mounted Mission-killing Curse)
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