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Heavy Attack Drones or Sentry Drones?

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Marshallbenwin	Posted - 2007.06.06 03:57:00 - [1] Hi I Havent been playing long I wanted to Know which is better the Heavy Attack Drones or the Sentry Drones...If hte Sentry Drones are better which One?
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.06 04:40:00 - [2] Sentry drones are great, in some scenarios, heavies in other. For max dps, nothing will out do the Garde - short of T2, especially not as there are sentry drone rigs. Warden is probably the most popular one due to its range.
M'lana State War Academy	Posted - 2007.06.06 04:57:00 - [3] Sentry Drones: + Damage, Range, can hit pos if really needed, higher HP - Static: enemy just gets out of range/optimal, and they can't return to you if you move away, easier for opponents to hit. Heavy Drones: + These are plenty damaging, can follow your target to the grave and return to you. - Weaker hp, but harder to hit. I'd normally go Heavies over Sentries in pretty much all cases, except if you want to hit a pos. Which is quite desperate, and requires a carrier. Another reason I'd go for mobile drones is due to how buggy drones seem to be. I've had my drones chase enemy 'ceptors upto 200k away (and keeping up with them - miracle) and dish out the killing blow to said 'ceptor. I know, wasn't really fair, but when your drones sometimes don't obey orders to return or shoot at the target you want them too, not much you can do :/.
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.06.06 05:26:00 - [4] Drones will follow their target well outside your drone command range until ordered otherwise or if the target outruns them horribly. I have a Myrmidon setup that makes Warrior IIs go 12km/s Only problem is they seemed to go dead when they got to 200km :/ @OP: Heavies are more useful than sentries in almost all situations, because sentry drones cannot move. If you want to have some fun, setup & rig a Domi for sentry sniping. 150km hits with Wardens And what's more, Tech II sentries are now viewable in the test server's market, though sadly not actually available yet. Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
Iism Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.06.06 06:16:00 - [5] would a sentry drone with a ship with 3 t1 sentry drone damage rigs be able to do more dps than a t2 heavy, given same skills, that both track their targets well? (assume that the sentry is shooting far away, and that it is within optimal, and that the target is webbed if heavies are hitting. also assume that both are of the same damage type)
Captain Crimson Galactic Production Dynamics	Posted - 2007.06.06 08:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Iism would a sentry drone with a ship with 3 t1 sentry drone damage rigs be able to do more dps than a t2 heavy, given same skills, that both track their targets well? (assume that the sentry is shooting far away, and that it is within optimal, and that the target is webbed if heavies are hitting. also assume that both are of the same damage type) I highly doubt it. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.06.06 09:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Iism would a sentry drone with a ship with 3 t1 sentry drone damage rigs be able to do more dps than a t2 heavy, given same skills, that both track their targets well? (assume that the sentry is shooting far away, and that it is within optimal, and that the target is webbed if heavies are hitting. also assume that both are of the same damage type) 1. Sentry drone rigs are 200 calib, so the max you can fit is 2. 2. Sentry drone rigs are stacking penalized. 3. T2 Ogre outdamages Garde with two sentry damage rigs. Thank you SkyFlyer! There is no 'n' in tur
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.06 10:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Iism would a sentry drone with a ship with 3 t1 sentry drone damage rigs be able to do more dps than a t2 heavy, given same skills, that both track their targets well? (assume that the sentry is shooting far away, and that it is within optimal, and that the target is webbed if heavies are hitting. also assume that both are of the same damage type) If you include the the time it takes the heavy drones until they can get to the target, then yes i would say under certain circumstances the sentrys are far more efficent. In some cases the sentrys will have destroyed targest before the heavys even get close. So dps of sentrys is lower, but only if you assume the heavy drones instantly teleporting to the target.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys	Posted - 2007.06.06 12:02:00 - [9] According to Evegeek... Ogre: 360 dps Ogre II: 475.2 dps Praetor: 258.75 dps Praetor II: 341.55 dps Garde: 50 * 1.6 * 1.5 * 2 * 5 * 1.25 / 4 = 300 dps ( * 1.1 * 1.088 = 359,04 dps) Seems I was wrong, heavies deal more dps than sentries, even if sentries packa greater alpha. This may of course not be true if comparing wasps with wardens, but... I leave that to someone else. Also note that with travelling times sentries will be better, unless they come upclose.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:54:00 - [10] I moved to Sentries for 1 mission. I found them utterly useless, tbh. Switched back to T2 Med, and they slaughter anything. They can take on 400k BSs for goodness sake.

Ariel Dawn Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.06 15:20:00 - [11] Just a heads up; T2 Sentry Drones are being introduced soon. They have the same damage mods as their counterparts (1.92x on Garde IIs, just like Ogre/Hammer/Hob) and also have 20% more range. They do need Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 though.
cytomatrix Caldari Toys R Us	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:27:00 - [12] If you want to pop structures in missions, you should use sentries. For moving targets and pvp, use heavies. ______________________________ Caldari blood. Gallente style. Minmatar Attitude.
PartyVaN Minmatar The Hand Trade Alliance FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:37:00 - [13] No one has mentioned gate camping at all. Geddon with full gank sniper and 5x Sentry drones is probably the best gate sniper. Other smaller drone ships (Arby, Vexor, etc) can fit a few sentries and ranged guns and still be effective snipers.
Dikat	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:40:00 - [14] Sentries are ESSENTIAL for lvl 4 missions in a Dominix. I wouldn't do one without them. I also wouldn't go without a full set of heavies either. Here's the scenario: You warp in and there are npc's 50-120km off. You have a link augmentor fitted so you've got 50-80km range (depending on skills) and you target 3 frigs and 2+ cruisers/battlecruisers. Drop your bouncers (my personal fave due to explosive dmg vs angels) or wardens (if you're going for kinetic npc's) and instapop the 3 frigs. By that time the cruisers/battlecruisers will be about 60-70km away and you should be able to kill 3 or 4 by the time they reach about 25km-30km away at which point the HORRIBLE tracking on the sentries renders them useless. Throw out your heavies and proceed to destroy. The gardes have 3 times the tracking and better damage than all other sentries however the range is horrible so they are almost totally useless for lvl 4 missions. You won't get the alpha and they will be either too close to be effective or too far, there is little that falls in between. Gardes make excellent gatecamping sentries though. So in short, if you're going to train drones go for the heavies first (make a beeline for the t2 variants. It takes a long time but it is 100% worth it) and then sentries. With Drone Interfacing to lvl 5 and sentries 4 you can do an insane amount of damage.
Dikat	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:42:00 - [15] Whoops! Forgot to mention the most important thing about sentries. If they are taking damage (assuming you're not moving which in a dominix, why not? You've got the tank, use it!) you can do something known as insta-scooping. Wait until their shields are 80% gone (usually only 1 or 2 will be targeted by npc's), scoop them to your drone bay and then pop them out with fully recharged shields. I've had entire battles where no one is targeting me and my sentries come out completely unharmed.
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Just a heads up; T2 Sentry Drones are being introduced soon. They have the same damage mods as their counterparts (1.92x on Garde IIs, just like Ogre/Hammer/Hob) and also have 20% more range. They do need Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 though. Time for me to train it then. I find it's usually a question of range. Wardens at least start to get useless under 30 km, while Ogres have insane travel times for anything over 30km. Always carry a set of both if you can. Tired of Waiting? Use Empire Research
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:24:00 - [17] if you have to chose heavies.. Personally I would only use sentry drones in some very specific pvp cases.. and for pve only on my big drone ships. Thing is: I would really like to have a set of heavies and lights with me (tech II obviously, I prefer medium tech II over heavy tech I almost any day), so I need a ship with 275m^3 drone space minimum. The Eos and Ishtar can get that but you'd be a fool not to use their agility all the time really.. sure you can also snipe with them with sentries if you want tho.. The rest of the ships, even the Typhoon.. well you can try it (5x sentry and 5x medium tech II are enough for most mishes), but heavy tech II >> sentry tech I, if only because sentry just won't track everything (and the higher rof makes tanking more annoying for your target). As for which sentry drones are good: Wardens, kinetic, 50km base, great for the snipe.. Gardes, thermal, 20km base, highest dmg, good for gank, but they won't track a non webbed blasterthron with base speed (nor will any of the others) For some missions I take bouncers (40km explosive) but I usually just take wardens so I can insta pop frigs and desroyers at 100km .. for the BS and close range cruisers I'll just use tech II berserkers.. PS: tech II sentry drones, proof or stfu.. kinda.. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Iism Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:05:00 - [18] first of all, here's the math: UNIVERSAL SKILLS: Drone Interfacing V = 2.00x modifier SPECIFIC SKILLS: Heavy Drone Operation V = 1.25x modifier Racial Drone Specialization V = 1.10x modifier Sentry Drone Interfacing V = 1.25x modifier SPECIFIC RIGS: 2 Sentry Damage Augmentor I = 1.21x modifier (or 1.196x if stacking nerf?) DRONE SHIP BONUS: Arbitrator/Curse/Dominix/Ishtar/Myrmidon/Pilgrim/Vexor/Vexor Navy Issue = 1.10x modifier Helios = 1.10x modifier for THERMAL DAMAGE TYPE scout drones Moros = 1.50x modifier --- TOTAL HEAVY DRONE BONUSES: 2.00 x 1.25 x 1.10 x 1.10 = 3.025x modifier TOTAL SENTRY DRONE BONUSES: 2.00 x 1.25 x 1.21 = 3.025x modifer --- HEAVY DRONE BASE DAMAGE: 24.00 / 2.00 = 12.00 DPS SENTRY DRONE BASE DAMAGE: 50.00 / 4.00 = 12.50 DPS --- KINETIC DAMAGE TYPE: Wasp II : 1.74x modifier Warden I : 1.20x modifier THERMAL DAMAGE TYPE: Ogre II : 1.92x modifier Garde I : 1.60x modifier EM DAMAGE TYPE: Praetor II : 1.38x modifier Curator I : 1.30x modifier EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE TYPE: Berserker II : 1.56x modifier Bouncer I : 1.40x modifier --- HEAVY DRONE SIGNATURE RESOLUTION: 125.00m SENTRY DRONE SIGNATURE RESOLUTION: 400.00m --- well it seems that heavy drones do more damage all the time... even with tracking/resolution considered. the only advantage they have is tactical... (travelling time from target to target and sniping etc.)
Theodwyn	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:56:00 - [19] Edited by: Theodwyn on 07/06/2007 08:56:49 Originally by: Iism DRONE SHIP BONUS: Arbitrator/Curse/Dominix/Ishtar/Myrmidon/Pilgrim/Vexor/Vexor Navy Issue = 1.10x modifier afaik, the damage bonus also counts for sentry drones, or am i wrong? at least, we would have: heavy tech 1 < sentry tech 1 < heavy tech 2 (< sentry tech 2) i prefer sentries in missions, no travelling time. i had a domi with 3 omni trackinglinks, 2 drone link augmentators, and the sentries killed the ships fast and without any problems, there as i could go and cook some coffee until the heavies travelled to the target :) edit: i had around 50km optimal with garde :)
Iism Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Theodwyn afaik, the damage bonus also counts for sentry drones, or am i wrong? hmm u're right, i forgot to add that bonus for sentries. edited, and thanks.

Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.06.08 00:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Just a heads up; T2 Sentry Drones are being introduced soon. They have the same damage mods as their counterparts (1.92x on Garde IIs, just like Ogre/Hammer/Hob) and also have 20% more range. They do need Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 though. Correction: they now only require Sentry Drone Interfacing IV Also, see this thread for some calculations. Suffice it to say that the Dominix is going to become quite a high-damage sniper at 125-155km... ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
Dalanoria	Posted - 2007.06.08 00:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: Ariel Dawn Just a heads up; T2 Sentry Drones are being introduced soon. They have the same damage mods as their counterparts (1.92x on Garde IIs, just like Ogre/Hammer/Hob) and also have 20% more range. They do need Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 though. Correction: they now only require Sentry Drone Interfacing IV Also, see this thread for some calculations. Suffice it to say that the Dominix is going to become quite a high-damage sniper at 125-155km... Cool..
Gabriel Magnar	Posted - 2007.06.08 10:58:00 - [23] I did the math a while ago and yeah, they do about the same damage. Add to that the downsides of using sentries and heavies pretty much come out on top in all cases. Sentries need boosting imo, given all their negative sides.
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.08 13:48:00 - [24] It really depends on the situation. But for gate camps or jumping into a gate camp where ships are going to be 30km+ I use sentries. One, no worries about them traveling to the hostiles....if a primary is called...they will be dead long before your drones approach them. I have had some very good damage output with these suckers. As long as you hold the field after the battle (and aren't dead ofc) you can always come and pick them up afterwards. They are great for when primaries are called and you can get them to shoot at the target as soon as you target them with no waits for them to get to their objective. But as far as small gangs and roaming, I prefer to use Ogre II's because 90% of the time you are going to be short range anyways and the travel time is a non issue. Gate camps (jumping in or out) - Sentries Roaming gangs - T2 heavies. "No matter where you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai
Remedios Sonrisa Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.06.08 14:42:00 - [25] Both, but I love my sentries more than the ogres. BTW, why are there no Sentry drones or Vespas dropped as loot by rats? I have fought all rat types for the past year and have yet to loot either one. Sentries I can understand a bit, but NO vespas? ....
Mara SkuldsDottir	Posted - 2007.06.09 12:42:00 - [26] the npcs don't like vespas
Grainne	Posted - 2007.08.19 10:23:00 - [27] Well it seems as if I disagree with most people in this thread. I am mainly a mission runner and use sentries (on my Dominix) almost exclusively. Using the insta-scoop method I can do all lvl 4 missions almost without getting any aggro. All frigs get popped before reaching me and most BC's are gone too. Tracking causes the cruisers to go down a bit slower but not by much. The only time I use my heavies is when the drones get to within ~20kms. When they get to this distance it is worthwile releasing the heavies to finish off the stragglers. Have to agree the heavies are better damage dealers but if you want to do missions(esp Lvl 4's) on "easy mode", sentries are the way to go. [/my 2 cents]
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.19 11:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Iism would a sentry drone with a ship with 3 t1 sentry drone damage rigs be able to do more dps than a t2 heavy, given same skills, that both track their targets well? (assume that the sentry is shooting far away, and that it is within optimal, and that the target is webbed if heavies are hitting. also assume that both are of the same damage type) 1. Sentry drone rigs are 200 calib, so the max you can fit is 2. 2. Sentry drone rigs are stacking penalized. 3. T2 Ogre outdamages Garde with two sentry damage rigs. They aren't if we are speaking about t2 garde.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.19 11:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Buxaroo It really depends on the situation. But for gate camps or jumping into a gate camp where ships are going to be 30km+ I use sentries. One, no worries about them traveling to the hostiles....if a primary is called...they will be dead long before your drones approach them. I have had some very good damage output with these suckers. As long as you hold the field after the battle (and aren't dead ofc) you can always come and pick them up afterwards. They are great for when primaries are called and you can get them to shoot at the target as soon as you target them with no waits for them to get to their objective. Weren't there a bug / feature - the rescooped drones doesn't get the bonuses from ship (and/or) the bonuses from skills anymore?
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.19 15:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Shiken Kan on 19/08/2007 15:32:29 Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Buxaroo It really depends on the situation. But for gate camps or jumping into a gate camp where ships are going to be 30km+ I use sentries. One, no worries about them traveling to the hostiles....if a primary is called...they will be dead long before your drones approach them. I have had some very good damage output with these suckers. As long as you hold the field after the battle (and aren't dead ofc) you can always come and pick them up afterwards. They are great for when primaries are called and you can get them to shoot at the target as soon as you target them with no waits for them to get to their objective. Weren't there a bug / feature - the rescooped drones doesn't get the bonuses from ship (and/or) the bonuses from skills anymore? don't think so, i scoop/redeploy my drones alot and i never saw anything that looked like they did only half damage or so afterwards. /edit oh and sentries are really great for aggro management, you can tank virtually every spawn there is for as long as the majority of the rats don't target you, which takes quite a while.



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