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Tygger
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Posted - 2007.06.06 08:48:00 -
[1]
Was doing a mission tonight in the hellish lag that is Motsu and i am in the second pocket of the mission and poof there is Liao Lor in his shuttle running around picking up my loot when i havent finished the mission and am still fighting the pirates in the pocket.
So I shoot him and he leaves and then i drop a petition.
I get a fairly fast response and the GM tells me yeah you can be probed down in a Deadspace pocket and they can warp right in on you.
I said surely you misunderstood me and i re-iterated that I was still doing the mission and had not completed it and was still fighting the rats in the deadspace area.
the GM said again yes they are suppose to be able to probe you down in a Deadspace pocket and warp to you. said it was a little harder than if you are just sitting in space but that was all.
So the person that gets the mission can not warp to any bookmarks we make in a deadspace area but any random ******* can probe you and come steal your loot and if you engage them they can kill you since you are still tanking the whole pocket and this is what CCP wants.
Glad to know they give more rights to gankers/griefers in Empire than anywhere else.
Yall are doing a bang up job, keep it up till the next game realease k.
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Xtreem
Gallente Viking Research and Production space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.06.06 08:54:00 -
[2]
wow calm down matey
they have to allow mission scanning for to allow people not to run them risk free in low sec and not to let empire war targets just sit in a deadspace for several hours not havign to worry about anything.
its only loot, and only happened that once, so relax have a beer/smoke/sleep/coffee and do another mission :)
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nobody killme
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Posted - 2007.06.06 08:57:00 -
[3]
I am talking about a agent mission though. Not a exploration type mission.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.06 09:14:00 -
[4]
Yes. Agent missions are scannable. They can just turn up, steal your mission critical item and then sell it to you for arm and leg (unless you like big faction/corp standings hit ofcource).
It is a bit harder to scan in deadspace but not THAT hard. As it's chance based then in areas with a lot of runners you will get contact fairly fast. It's hard to find anybody if there is just few missionrunners or you are hunting for specific missionrunner.
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mr bighelmet
EnTech Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.06.06 09:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tygger Was doing a mission tonight in the hellish lag that is Motsu and i am in the second pocket of the mission and poof there is Liao Lor in his shuttle running around picking up my loot when i havent finished the mission and am still fighting the pirates in the pocket.
So I shoot him and he leaves and then i drop a petition.
I get a fairly fast response and the GM tells me yeah you can be probed down in a Deadspace pocket and they can warp right in on you.
I said surely you misunderstood me and i re-iterated that I was still doing the mission and had not completed it and was still fighting the rats in the deadspace area.
the GM said again yes they are suppose to be able to probe you down in a Deadspace pocket and warp to you. said it was a little harder than if you are just sitting in space but that was all.
So the person that gets the mission can not warp to any bookmarks we make in a deadspace area but any random ******* can probe you and come steal your loot and if you engage them they can kill you since you are still tanking the whole pocket and this is what CCP wants.
Glad to know they give more rights to gankers/griefers in Empire than anywhere else.
Yall are doing a bang up job, keep it up till the next game realease k.
I think you and the GM didn't understood each other. Other player can probe you, but when they warp to you they will not warp on top of you but instead will warp to the first gate of the deadspace.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Loc Maythan
Gallente Alfa00 Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:44:00 -
[6]
As mr bighelmet said, they can scan you out doing a mission, but if they try to warp to you, they will arrive at the gate leading into deadspace - exactly as happens if you try to warp to a BM that is within that deadspace. Unless the gate has some special requirement - size of ship, faction tag etc - to keep them out, they can come through the same series of gates that you have used. If you are still at or near the warp in point for an accelerator gate within the deadspace, it will appear to you that they have warped directly to you. However, they will have had to come the long way round just as you did.
Of course, they have the advantage that they are usually flying a faster ship than you, and that you are normally preoccupied with mission rats who have probably all targetted you, but that's a different discussion.
If there is no mission critical loot lying around, you might want to consider warping out - if you are not scrambled - and coming back in a few minutes. Once you have gone, the mission rats will look for a new target, and will find your unwanted guest, who will then have the choice of fleeing themselves, or tanking the damage. Of course, if they tank the damage, you will return in a few minutes and will have no mission aggro - they will, in effect, be helping you out. If they warp out and return, do the same thing. I've never been scanned out in a mission, so have not tested the above strategy, but I imagine that it would prove somewhat annoying to the miscreant.
Loc.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.06.06 13:57:00 -
[7]
In some missions, it is possible to warp straight into the deadspace pocket. I have a 2nd account that runs my support ship. I have experienced that my support ship could warp straight to me from anywhere. Even when i were 2 gates/rooms into the mission.
Guess that was a bug and I should have reported it.. when it happens again, i will
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.06.06 14:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Guess that was a bug and I should have reported it.. when it happens again, i will
No, it seems to be intentional in some missions - most do not allow it, but some of the newer ones and many storylines allow it.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
iudex
Caldari Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.06 14:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tygger Was doing a mission tonight in the hellish lag that is Motsu and i am in the second pocket of the mission and poof there is Liao Lor in his shuttle running around picking up my loot when i havent finished the mission and am still fighting the pirates in the pocket.
So I shoot him and he leaves and then i drop a petition.
Apart from the other thing that was already answered, i must say you are very brave to do that. You shoot the guy and continue the mission. After 1 minute this guy shows up with a pvp-fitted tackler/nos/dronedamegedealer dominix and has the right to kill your missionrunner ships (which has no chace with pve fitting + potentioal rats aggro). You say thats not likely ? Well a loot thief or illegal salvager doesn't show up in a shuttle, so that might have been a highsec-pirate looking for a license to kill ? Don't do that, better do things that help: for example whine in forum about how unfair it is that pirates/griefers/thiefs can probe you in your missionrunner spot. When a lot of people whine about one thing CCP usually changes it (nice CCP, cares about custumor opinions) so make 1-2 threads evry week about this issue, answer on old threads and do everything possible (only that is still within the rules ofc.) to keep this thing "hot", then maybe it will be impvroved in the missionrunners favour
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.06.06 16:34:00 -
[10]
It does sound to me like a bug if people are able to bypass the acceleration gates. I'd bug report it, even if one GM seemed to tell you otherwise. Especially since he may have misunderstood, or have been wondering what exactly you were trying to petition anyway. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Exlegion
KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:11:00 -
[11]
I know it's not really the point of your post but, how much can someone loot on a shuttle? . Are you sure it wasn't just a curious bystander testing out his probing skills? To the point, your deadspace should be probable (is this even a word?). I doubt that the intruder was warping straight to your location. It is more likely they were being dropped to the deadspace entrance gate.
Also, if you're able to warp out (you're not scrambled), then warp out and leave them to fight the NPC's, if they're fitted for anything other than PVE they're screwed (if it's a level 4 mish). Hopefully they'll agro everything in the room.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Exlegion
KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:11:00 -
[12]
I know it's not really the point of your post but, how much can someone loot on a shuttle? . Are you sure it wasn't just a curious bystander testing out his probing skills? To the point, your deadspace should be probable (is this even a word?). I doubt that the intruder was warping straight to your location. It is more likely they were being dropped to the deadspace entrance gate.
Also, if you're able to warp out (you're not scrambled), then warp out and leave them to fight the NPC's, if they're fitted for anything other than PVE they're screwed (if it's a level 4 mish). Hopefully they'll agro everything in the room.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.06 17:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Exlegion I know it's not really the point of your post but, how much can someone loot on a shuttle? .
You can flip the cans in a shuttle. Best case the mish runner gets annoyed and shoots at you (or you get hit by a FoF), worst case you come back after aggro wears off and help yourself to the choicer goodies.
A free newbie ship is a much better choice for this enterprise, IMO. Or a stabbed up & tanked battleship.
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iudex
Caldari Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
You can flip the cans in a shuttle. Best case the mish runner gets annoyed and shoots at you (or you get hit by a FoF) ...
Please tell me this was jus a wild guess ? I'm glad i sold my officer fitting last week because i don't do much missions anymore and because of a larger investemnt, but this what you say is like saying to me "hey btw, you was risking your 10 billion isk cnr everytime you did a mission with f.o.f. (which was pretty much always the case)". You know what i mean: if, likes you say, f.o.f. would fire on someone who steals from my wrecks, he would get a right to shoot back for 15 minutes and could come back in a pvp fitted dominix or whatever, kill the cnr and become a multibillionaire if only half of the fittings survives ? That would be kinda shocking, hope you didn't test it yourself and know this for sure ?
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.06 18:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Toria Nynys on 06/06/2007 18:42:00
Originally by: iudex
You know what i mean: if, likes you say, f.o.f. would fire on someone who steals from my wrecks, he would get a right to shoot back for 15 minutes and could come back in a pvp fitted dominix or whatever, kill the cnr and become a multibillionaire if only half of the fittings survives ? That would be kinda shocking, hope you didn't test it yourself and know this for sure ?
That's exactly what I'm saying. FoFs target structures and wrecks if they're closer than rats. These are Friend or Foe or Anything Else missiles, after all. They will absolutely hit a red blinky if he's closer to the ship than a rat and targeting you. There's a non-zero chance drones will take a pot shot as well.
Some luck is involved here, as I said, but try it a couple of times and it WILL happen.
There's also a chance the guy will hit your can with an FoF or smartbomb, so you may not need a gank ship.
If you want relative safety the best you can do is mission in quiet systems with agents a few notches down in quality and a comparatively empty local, not use smartbombs, drones or FoFs, and dock as soon as a neutral or hostile enters your mission.
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Kai Jyokoroi
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.06.06 19:22:00 -
[16]
I've an amazing idea for you - you could try growing a pair.
Absolutely nothing is supposed to be risk-free in this game; everything is PvP oriented. You don't want that? Quit (but give me your stuff first please.) _____________ WE ARE THE COLLECTIVE. RESISTANCE IS VOLTAGE OVER CURRENT.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi I've an amazing idea for you - you could try growing a pair.
Absolutely nothing is supposed to be risk-free in this game; everything is PvP oriented. You don't want that? Quit (but give me your stuff first please.)
We all luub PvP. Heck, I PvP in the market with others daily. What isn't so hot is GvP -- ganker(s) vs player. The absolutely no assets on the line risk free ganks to destroy weeks of work with little to no practical counter.
Seeing the difference yet?
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.07 02:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xtreem wow calm down matey
they have to allow mission scanning for to allow people not to run them risk free in low sec and not to let empire war targets just sit in a deadspace for several hours not havign to worry about anything.
its only loot, and only happened that once, so relax have a beer/smoke/sleep/coffee and do another mission :)
You missed the point. They should have the same BS rules of warp physics apply to them. make them got to the gate. Make them fly around in deadspace.
Not have two rules.
Phoenix Logistics Industries |
iudex
Caldari Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 04:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Toria Nynys Edited by: Toria Nynys on 06/06/2007 18:42:00
Originally by: iudex
You know what i mean: if, likes you say, f.o.f. would fire on someone who steals from my wrecks, he would get a right to shoot back for 15 minutes and could come back in a pvp fitted dominix or whatever, kill the cnr and become a multibillionaire if only half of the fittings survives ? That would be kinda shocking, hope you didn't test it yourself and know this for sure ?
That's exactly what I'm saying. FoFs target structures and wrecks if they're closer than rats. These are Friend or Foe or Anything Else missiles, after all. They will absolutely hit a red blinky if he's closer to the ship than a rat and targeting you. There's a non-zero chance drones will take a pot shot as well.
Some luck is involved here, as I said, but try it a couple of times and it WILL happen.
There's also a chance the guy will hit your can with an FoF or smartbomb, so you may not need a gank ship.
If you want relative safety the best you can do is mission in quiet systems with agents a few notches down in quality and a comparatively empty local, not use smartbombs, drones or FoFs, and dock as soon as a neutral or hostile enters your mission.
Bah you scared me for nothing . I just tested this on the testserver with the help of some friendly helpers who took items from my wrecks and no, f.o.f missiles did not shoot on a player ship that has targeted and stolen from the can/wreck (flashing red). It's just wrong information, but i think you didn't give it intentionally wrong but was only confused a bit about what fof shoot on, cause this is a somewhat complicated thing, so it's ok, just don't say something is for sure the case, if you didn't test it yourself, a lot of wrong informations are around here. And they don't shoot wrecks, but thats obvious for any missionrunner. Deadspace structure of many types (even deadspace corpses in pirate slaugher last room), npc ships - and player ships only if they agress. But i must admit because i wasn't sure before making the test now, you scared me for a while
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.07 07:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: iudex
Bah you scared me for nothing . I just tested this on the testserver with the help of some friendly helpers who took items from my wrecks and no, f.o.f missiles did not shoot on a player ship that has targeted and stolen from the can/wreck (flashing red). It's just wrong information, but i think you didn't give it intentionally wrong but was only confused a bit about what fof shoot on, cause this is a somewhat complicated thing, so it's ok, just don't say something is for sure the case, if you didn't test it yourself, a lot of wrong informations are around here. And they don't shoot wrecks, but thats obvious for any missionrunner. Deadspace structure of many types (even deadspace corpses in pirate slaugher last room), npc ships - and player ships only if they agress. But i must admit because i wasn't sure before making the test now, you scared me for a while
You have tested it on a ship who has targeted you after sthealing? (not fired, only targeted).
I think that is the key point.
Or the FOF targeting system has been changed in the last months (till some time ago it would hit any valid target).
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iudex
Caldari Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
You have tested it on a ship who has targeted you after sthealing? (not fired, only targeted).
I think that is the key point.
Or the FOF targeting system has been changed in the last months (till some time ago it would hit any valid target).
Yes that was exactly the test. A guy took stuff from my can, started to flash red and targeted me. My fofs were "hot" (as they killed some rats right before) but did not fire on the thief, ceased fire due lack of valid targets. If they fired on the playership it would be quite a horror for some people, i know a few myself who do missions with f.o.fs with quite expensive fitted navy ravens. So pirates would only have to scan for missionrunners in that missionrunner hubs and get billions of isk everytime they found one of those many navy ravens using fof missiles. A slaughterfest that would have caused a lot of whining here on forumes btw. so i should have known this before lol, no massive whining about this issue = no existent problem.
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Forge Pricechecker
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron
You missed the point. They should have the same BS rules of warp physics apply to them. make them got to the gate. Make them fly around in deadspace.
Not have two rules.
I belive that in any mission where you can't warp to a bookmark you make in the mission, a ganker who scans you down can't warp right to you. I belive the rules are consistant- either everyone lands at the first warp gate or everyone can warp into the mission, depending on the mission.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:20:00 -
[23]
FoFs only go for the CLOSEST target who is either "WANTED" or has ENGAGED your own ship (i.e. flagged towards you).
They don't go for "true neutral" structures, they don't go for wartargets, they don't go for ships that have you targetted but didn't activate a module on you... they don't even go for ships shooting your corpmates or gangmates, for chrissakes.
They (FoFs) use basically the same AI as drones use, but with slightly less restrictions (also automatically going for "wanted" structures, drones don't). DRONES USED TO, HOWEVER, GO AFTER TARGETS ACTIVATING A SHIP/CARGO SCANNER ON YOU. Not sure if that's still the case, or if FoFs had/have the same logical fallacy.
As for "warping to scanned ship in deadspace", the warping ship uses the exact same rules as any other normal ship. They can only warp DIRECTLY to you if the mission is a non-deadspace one (for instance, "The Blockade" or "Massive Attack"), but in those missions, gangmates can also warp directly to you.
If it's not the case, and they warped directly on top of you (i.e. you saw them warping), and the mission was one where YOU personally must warp through gates (not beacons), then FILE A BUG REPORT, with as much info as possible, that should NOT happend. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ezra
Gallente Calista Industries Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Forge Pricechecker
Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron
You missed the point. They should have the same BS rules of warp physics apply to them. make them got to the gate. Make them fly around in deadspace.
Not have two rules.
I belive that in any mission where you can't warp to a bookmark you make in the mission, a ganker who scans you down can't warp right to you. I belive the rules are consistant- either everyone lands at the first warp gate or everyone can warp into the mission, depending on the mission.
Correct. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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shaolinp
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Posted - 2007.06.07 22:10:00 -
[25]
blakely, is that u?
if it is dunno if it works, heard bout it but not tried since i gone back to our older game for most part.
does carrying around a jetcan with a tractor work?
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Callthetruth
Caldari Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.08 05:39:00 -
[26]
i do this all the time esp in motsu saila etc its great fun u can be scanned down stuff lotted etc, he didnt interfere with youre rats which u can do to he simply made off with some loot u didnt have a corp buddy picking up for u and can salvage i see everything is fine
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Liisa
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:51:00 -
[27]
In order to stop all the speculating, take if from somebody who knows how it works:
When warping to a probe scanned target, you have to differentiate between two different kinds of deadspace missions.
1) The gated deadspace missions: This mission starts off with a deadspace acceleration gate. All people who warp to bookmarks within the mission or to a probed scanned target (right click selection of the target in the scanner window, warp to) will land next to the entry beacon. This may, or may not, be right on top of the entry acceleration gate, depending on the mission.
2) Deadspace mission without an acceleration gate: the mission where you land right in the mission, so to speak. If you warp to a target via the scanner window you will land exactly at the desired distance to them. So if I probe out a mission runner who is in a deadspace pocket that does not require an acceleration gate, I will land right on top of his scanned position. ----------------------------------
Currently pursuing a "deviant playstyle." |
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