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mr bighelmet
EnTech
Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.06.13 08:46:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
stuff
I understand where you come from but you need to remember certain things.
1) Eve is first a PvP game not an econmic game and the balance will alwyes be with that in mind.
2) MMO are alwyes going the way that eve is going, at the start you have a small group of people slowly it grow as it grow there are more and more people who become pro player, they have a few accounts they got a few charcter etc, it's how the MMO world work, the only reason Eve have menaged to avoid this for so long was that Eve was a fringe game not alot of players so less competition and a lot less "i want it now" players, once eve started to become more mainstream it started to have the same illness that other games have, that does not spell doom for Eve other games have menaged to keep on going for a long long time with multiply account/charcter per player and with efficient playing (i.e. low key macro/Isk profiting).
3) trying to make real world economy in a MMO game is bad, it's even worse when the game is not an economy based game but rather a PvP based game, first of all becuse real world have check and balances that will never be in Eve and the most importent part is that PvP player want to PvP and that cost ISK in eve (there are games whereyour charcter dictate what u can do much more then your item/ship like eve) if you will make eve economy more RL like it will be harder to cover the PvP cost for those players and it will hurt there enjoyment something that for me is bad idea.
Just to clarify i am not a PvP player i'm an industrial but i know that the game i play is not an economy game but a PvP game and i plan aroudn that fact.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2007.06.13 19:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: mr bighelmet
I understand where you come from but you need to remember certain things.
1) Eve is first a PvP game not an econmic game and the balance will alwyes be with that in mind.
2) MMO are alwyes going the way that eve is going, at the start you have a small group of people slowly it grow as it grow there are more and more people who become pro player, they have a few accounts they got a few charcter etc, it's how the MMO world work, the only reason Eve have menaged to avoid this for so long was that Eve was a fringe game not alot of players so less competition and a lot less "i want it now" players, once eve started to become more mainstream it started to have the same illness that other games have, that does not spell doom for Eve other games have menaged to keep on going for a long long time with multiply account/charcter per player and with efficient playing (i.e. low key macro/Isk profiting).
3) trying to make real world economy in a MMO game is bad, it's even worse when the game is not an economy based game but rather a PvP based game, first of all becuse real world have check and balances that will never be in Eve and the most importent part is that PvP player want to PvP and that cost ISK in eve (there are games whereyour charcter dictate what u can do much more then your item/ship like eve) if you will make eve economy more RL like it will be harder to cover the PvP cost for those players and it will hurt there enjoyment something that for me is bad idea.
Just to clarify i am not a PvP player i'm an industrial but i know that the game i play is not an economy game but a PvP game and i plan aroudn that fact.
In short you claim the fix is wrong because pvp is expensive?
I actually sort of covered that when I explained that the balance on losses needed to be fixed. Destroy items and cargo, and then ships and then life. Thus you make all the loss greatly reduced with the pirates and the pvp crew. You would have longer fights and losses would be on the looser, and balanced fairly. Pvp would still be fun and less costly to those doing it right. The loss would be on the loosers and those non pvp who made bad risk assesments.
The current cost to pvp is another bad balance issue. We loose **** way to fast and digitally. There is no variable degrees, its almost all or nothing, thats bad. The whole competition field would evolve if we made things more discreet and in degrees. A pvp event where you fought but got away with BURNING ASS and a lot of loss in items and ship damage, but barely got away. You then had to resupply, and repair. If repair cost was balanced correctly this would be another discreet loss.
So as you can see I never tried to take away the gameplay, I am trying to make ccp add more. So pvp players and pve players begin to interact more on many levels. Also it will open the game to more GREY so its not so them and us on the carebear pewpew issue.
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Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.06.13 20:30:00 -
[33]
Originally by: mr bighelmet
3) trying to make real world economy in a MMO game is bad, it's even worse when the game is not an economy based game but rather a PvP based game, first of all becuse real world have check and balances that will never be in Eve
Hypercapitalism?
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
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Posted - 2007.06.13 21:16:00 -
[34]
Originally by: mr bighelmet
1) Eve is first a PvP game not an econmic game and the balance will alwyes be with that in mind.
WRONG! Eve is an economic PvP game. Most ship combat in Eve is for economic reasons, only some role-players are the exception amongst those that initiate combat, and even their wins and losses have a large economic component.
Originally by: mr bighelmet
3) trying to make real world economy in a MMO game is bad, it's even worse when the game is not an economy based game but rather a PvP based game, first of all becuse real world have check and balances that will never be in Eve and the most importent part is that PvP player want to PvP and that cost ISK in eve (there are games whereyour charcter dictate what u can do much more then your item/ship like eve) if you will make eve economy more RL like it will be harder to cover the PvP cost for those players and it will hurt there enjoyment something that for me is bad idea.
I would say the opposite actually. PvP losses aren't expensive enough for the most part, the death of a ship begins to lose significance. The cost is one factor that makes Eve PvP so much more exciting than other MMOs. I've never had my pulse pound in combat in other MMOs, or even to the same extent in FPS games, because there's no/little risk. Those games can be fun, Eve is fun AND exciting.
Originally by: mr bighelmet
Just to clarify i am not a PvP player i'm an industrial but i know that the game i play is not an economy game but a PvP game and i plan aroudn that fact.
I hate to say it but I think you're really missing the whole point of Eve. If you're an industrial player you ARE a PvPer. Non-combat PvP may not be as titillating but it is more competitive than, and for the most part the root of, combat as well.
0.0 wars are over resources, be they asteroids, moons, high-value belt rats or complexes.
Low-sec Pirates just want your stuff.
High-sec wars, well, they just want your stuff too.
Lag? GTFOOJ! |
mr bighelmet
EnTech
Pax Familia
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Posted - 2007.06.14 01:46:00 -
[35]
Edited by: mr bighelmet on 14/06/2007 01:49:47
I dont want to get into the is PvP only PvP when you blow the other side with guns/magic/swords/missiles etc or is it also PvP when you out sell/buy/profit the othe guy.
what i do know that PvP is first about killing the other guy not about making profit it's about wining and knowing that other guy lost to you, it's true that the alliance part of Eve pvp is about making profit but that's not part of the basic idea of Eve and even today that's is not what most PvP in eve is about even though the big alliance wars make more headlings they are not where most of Eve players are and that is not where most of Eve PvP happen.
The basic PvPer is not making ISK from his profession, he is using other methods to gain isk so he could finance his PvP.
Most low sec pirate want u dead first, then they care about your stuff, they will kill you even if your in an empty shuttle, look at some of coad battle reports not the big ones but the small ones, people form gangs and go roaming looking for a fight even if/when they know they will probably lose the fight, it's the fight that the fun the looting after is an extra bonus.
In short you claim the fix is wrong because pvp is expensive?
No, i claim the fix is wrong becuse when you try to balance the game around the ISK part of it, you will lose sight of the fact this game is about killing the other guy ship first and only then the part of looting it enter.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Domalais
Equilibrium LLC
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.15 05:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't see Zydrine going up any time soon... its in nearly all the megacyte ores, plus its in vast quantities in the drone regions.
Rev 2 patch notes:
# Plush compound now yields significant amount of tritanium and a decent amount of pyrite. The amount of zydrine has been reduced.
# Lustering Alloy has had its zydrine amount lowered.
I wonder if this is the cause of the market effect.
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.15 08:29:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Domalais
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't see Zydrine going up any time soon... its in nearly all the megacyte ores, plus its in vast quantities in the drone regions.
Rev 2 patch notes:
# Plush compound now yields significant amount of tritanium and a decent amount of pyrite. The amount of zydrine has been reduced.
# Lustering Alloy has had its zydrine amount lowered.
I wonder if this is the cause of the market effect.
well zydrine is alredy up to 3k in jita and the patch's not even here yet =p guess people are crazy
- Gob
Now with 20% extra emo! |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.06.15 12:22:00 -
[38]
Zydrine prices will go higher still but I dont believe will reach the dizzy hieghts of the pre drone region era. Im thinking prices will fluctuate between 3.3k and 3.8 for zydrine.
I know im buying up 
Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place?
Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag |
Rice Dog
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Posted - 2007.06.15 20:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: BSAC Manager
BSAC Mineral Reserve Recommendation:
Tritanium û trade (not enough profit on this one for me, have fun trading this crap)
Pyerite û sell (sell plz so they can buy it cheaper)
Mexallon û trade
Isogen û trade
Nocxium û buy (they want to sell for a better price)
Zydrine û buy (they want u to up the price so they can sell)
Megacyte û trade
Key
Buy = buy all you can because prices are very low
Sell = sell all your stock or mine because prices are very high
Trade = prices are reasonable, so you can buy/sell of the market without hesitating
I translated it to what the guy really wants.
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BSAC Manager
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:51:00 -
[40]
I try to provide a non-biased prospective. I think most traders, manufacturers, and miners would agree with my recommendation. That was the recommendation on June 6, before the patch notes. After the patch notes, Zydrine started to climb up and Pyerite started to decreased a bit. Right now I would say:
Tritanium û trade
Pyerite û sell
Mexallon û trade
Isogen û trade
Nocxium û buy
Zydrine û trade
Megacyte û trade
These recommendations are based in certain calculations I made in the past.
Key
Buy = buy all you can because prices are very low
Sell = sell all your stock or mine because prices are very high
Trade = prices are reasonable, so you can buy/sell of the market without hesitating
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