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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:04:00 -
[1]
Before the tier 2 battlecruisers came on the field the Eagle HAC was the runt of the litter but still could be sold for about 40% of what the other HACs retailed.
Enter Drake and the Eagle can't even be thrown at passers by.
Can anyone tell me a good reason to fly these ships or even keep building them? Is it just me being bias or do they need a boost making them as viable a ship as any of the other HACs?
Also Known As |
Tactus
the Organ Grinder and Company
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:10:00 -
[2]
either
buff eagle!
or
can i have your bpo?
or both.
<3 eagle.
________________________________________________
 Originally by: Raivi
...but if spending all your imaginary money on an imaginary spaceship with a camo paintjob is wrong then I don't want to be right.
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w0rmy
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:11:00 -
[3]
Ill buy your eagles!!
Eagle > ALL!
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:11:00 -
[4]
I much prefer my Eagles to my Cerberus or my Deimos.
Iron tank, second only to the Sacrilege and serious dps, and no fitting or cap problems. Yes please.
And I don't see how the Drake has changed the role of the Eagle. The Eagles the gun one, you know that right?
In this game, odds are if you can't fly a ship well, it's your fault, not the ships.
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Originally by: Wild Rho
I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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Pwn4ge P4nts
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:14:00 -
[5]
Problem is that the tier2 battlecruisers are simply too good. They deserve nerfing.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
I much prefer my Eagles to my Cerberus or my Deimos.
Iron tank, second only to the Sacrilege and serious dps, and no fitting or cap problems. Yes please.
And I don't see how the Drake has changed the role of the Eagle. The Eagles the gun one, you know that right?
In this game, odds are if you can't fly a ship well, it's your fault, not the ships.
The Drake comes into the picture as a caldari ship that's more bang for your buck in that it's cheaper to build & has an insane tank.
I have no problem flying it, it's just that since the Drake the sales have dropped to 0.
Also Known As |
w0rmy
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
The Drake comes into the picture as a caldari ship that's more bang for your buck in that it's cheaper to build & has an insane tank.
And theres the problem, the drake is currently, too good.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Gummi
The Short Bus Squad
The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:21:00 -
[8]
Boost the Eagle!
erm, yea boost the Eagle.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gummi
Boost the Eagle!
erm, yea boost the Eagle.
It's a long time coming, seeing as caldari and slow missiles aren't as viable in PvP I'd suggest a boosted rate of fire on the Eagle.
Also Known As |
w0rmy
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Gummi
Boost the Eagle!
erm, yea boost the Eagle.
It's a long time coming, seeing as caldari and slow missiles aren't as viable in PvP I'd suggest a boosted rate of fire on the Eagle.
I wouldnt complain about that!
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:36:00 -
[11]
The problem is that people expect HACs to be worth the 100mill or what have you they go for on the market. They're not.
check out their insurance price. Thats their base price- presumably, it is comparable with the T1 base price, in terms of what CCP think they are worth in relation to other items. You'll notice that the Tier 2 T1 Battlecruisers have a base price of somewhere in the region of TWICE that of their comparable HAC (based on the Myrm being 40 mill base price, the Ishtar being 18 mill base price). Even allowing for the fact CCP may have lowered the base price for the purposes of the insurance discrepancy (a theory I don't follow), that still places Tier2 BCs as far more expensive than HACs.
So why, for the love of god, do people expect HACs to be many times better? Why do they pay 100 million for them? As best I understand, T2 ships tend to be as good as the class above their chassis size- Assault Frigs can go 1 on 1 with a well set up and piloted cruiser. Command Ships seem to be about a match for a decent BS (plus the tasty gang bonuses on top). So logically, HACs should be about as good as BCs.
So the answer? Sell them cheaper, maybe? How much are you selling Eagles at, and how does this compare with the Drake?
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:42:00 -
[12]
I don't build t2 stuff, but I don't think the base price set by insurance is a reasonable means of estimating the cost.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 07/06/2007 00:51:15
I go by the cost of the materials needed to build, not what the Drake costs, I've already stated that the Drake is a cheap build by comparison yet it's killing the market for the Eagle as people don't bother with training guns for caldari pilots when they might as well skip right to the Drake.
Noteworthy is that I sell on location, never on pricecheck at hubs, there used to be a market here in the fringes, not anymore.
Also Known As |
Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Patch86
The problem is that people expect HACs to be worth the 100mill or what have you they go for on the market. They're not.
check out their insurance price. Thats their base price- presumably, it is comparable with the T1 base price
You presume incorrectly. It is, quite simply, a function of the T1 materials cost.
There are plenty of things HAC's can do which BC's cannot. The Eagle is a great long range sniper, and one of the few individual ships which I am instantly afraid of as a Claw pilot.
(And no, BS are not comparable...while they can match the range, their tracking and sig resoloution are far, far worse!)
Also, for certain PvE situations, the Eagle can breeze through while the Drake would be pounded into dust in moments.
//Maya |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Frug
I don't build t2 stuff, but I don't think the base price set by insurance is a reasonable means of estimating the cost.
A question that'd be interesting to answer, I suppose. The OP builds Eagles, right? How much, purely in terms of construction materials, does it cost you to build one unit?
Thats purely the market cost of the materials, mind.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 00:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Patch86
The problem is that people expect HACs to be worth the 100mill or what have you they go for on the market. They're not.
check out their insurance price. Thats their base price- presumably, it is comparable with the T1 base price
You presume incorrectly. It is, quite simply, a function of the T1 materials cost.
There are plenty of things HAC's can do which BC's cannot. The Eagle is a great long range sniper, and one of the few individual ships which I am instantly afraid of as a Claw pilot.
(And no, BS are not comparable...while they can match the range, their tracking and sig resoloution are far, far worse!)
Also, for certain PvE situations, the Eagle can breeze through while the Drake would be pounded into dust in moments.
Without doubt, the Eagle and the Drake are very different ships with different capabilities. That wasn't really my point.
The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out. I've read at least one dev before state that this is, in a way, a tool used to dictate a base price for units of minerals, seeing as you've set an NPC value for a particular mineral recipe.
I'm making one big assumption though, in that I have not the foggiest idea as to what the mineral ingredients of a T2 ship are, seeing as I don't manufacture T2 ships.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Patch86
The problem is that people expect HACs to be worth the 100mill or what have you they go for on the market. They're not.
check out their insurance price. Thats their base price- presumably, it is comparable with the T1 base price
You presume incorrectly. It is, quite simply, a function of the T1 materials cost.
There are plenty of things HAC's can do which BC's cannot. The Eagle is a great long range sniper, and one of the few individual ships which I am instantly afraid of as a Claw pilot.
(And no, BS are not comparable...while they can match the range, their tracking and sig resoloution are far, far worse!)
Also, for certain PvE situations, the Eagle can breeze through while the Drake would be pounded into dust in moments.
Without doubt, the Eagle and the Drake are very different ships with different capabilities. That wasn't really my point.
The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out. I've read at least one dev before state that this is, in a way, a tool used to dictate a base price for units of minerals, seeing as you've set an NPC value for a particular mineral recipe.
I'm making one big assumption though, in that I have not the foggiest idea as to what the mineral ingredients of a T2 ship are, seeing as I don't manufacture T2
ships.
You can check any blueprint on the market, assume a certain ME value and do the math from there on. No I don't think the advanced material prices are anywhere near what CCP expected them to be given the terminal boredom and profitability of running a POS and the lack of materials and competition as a result. In short, production cost is well above what it can be insured for still.
Also Known As |
Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:08:00 -
[18]
Patch86, "The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out"
No.
The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out for a T1 ship.
T2 ships have allways worked differently. Take the 2 million max payout on an interceptor...
T2 ships use player manufactured components, which are not included in the insurance value!
//Maya |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:13:00 -
[19]
Back to the topic on hand, why isn't the Eagle a viable commodity anymore? Compared to the other HACs and what it stealing the customers away, the lure of the Drake or something else entirely?
Also Known As |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Elmicker on 07/06/2007 01:13:37
WTB: 200km rail sniping drake. 
Though, yeah, i get your argument. The cerb currently has no purpose. The drake does everything it can, better, and for less than half the price. Not to mention its insurable.
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Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Back to the topic on hand, why isn't the Eagle a viable commodity anymore? Compared to the other HACs and what it stealing the customers away, the lure of the Drake or something else entirely?
HAC's in general have suffered - the hp boost and other balance changes weigh heavily against the lower-number, skilled, quicker side (the..typical HAC user). In particular, the relatively low DPS Eagle is certainly doing to have been especially harmed by this.
So the answer is, really, "CCP".
//Maya |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Patch86, "The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out"
No.
The base price is the cost of a 100% insurance pay out for a T1 ship.
T2 ships have allways worked differently. Take the 2 million max payout on an interceptor...
T2 ships use player manufactured components, which are not included in the insurance value!
I mean "Base Price", as in the official figure called the "Base Price". You can see it listed in the item database- and it literally is the insurance payout, in that they are the same value. Linkage- check the very bottom line of information. 2 million for an interceptor.
Whether the literal base price corresponds to this "Base Price" is another matter entirely though.
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Bazman
Caldari
Werda Fookarwii
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:33:00 -
[23]
Drake has nothing to do with the decline of the Eagle.
The reason the Eagle is facing extinction is because of the 10km/s ceptor. Yes, you heard me.
With the introduction of superfast nano ships, and the ultra fast interceptor, there has been a massive decline of Sniper ships. This is because the ultra fast ships can cover the 200km sniping distance in a fraction of the time they used to and tackle those snipers. Sad, but true
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Jotan Veer
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2007.06.07 01:46:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jotan Veer on 07/06/2007 01:47:08
Sell them a bit cheaper, if they start selling for less than 50 mill I will start using them as throwaway heavy tackler.
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Matthew Cooper
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:19:00 -
[25]
I have been in awe of the Eagle ever since I saw one destroy a Rifter from 200km with a transversal velocity of over 1km/s.
Even if it may not be practical for a lot of people anymore, it's still a great ship for what it does.
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Brunswick2
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Brunswick2 on 07/06/2007 03:20:13
nevermind
Brunswick2 is too sexy for the eve-o mods |
IamBen
Caldari
Twilight Void
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Posted - 2007.06.07 03:24:00 -
[27]
The drake too good? umm no. Eagle is a great ship, its just not as versatile as some of the other hacs. It really has one purpose. Sniping.
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Neuromandis
Novastorm Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:04:00 -
[28]
Can I have your Eagle?? 
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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:17:00 -
[29]
Lemme make sure I understand this.
Your mad because players wont buy your Eagles but buy Drakes instead. You attribute this to players training missiles and not guns. So....How is that CCP's fault?
Let me put it another way.
Players arent buying Eagles but are buying something else. You want CCP to nerf the something else so they buy your Eagles? 
Hell, why not just make what people are buying, instead of trying tof orce people to buy what your selling? 
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/06/2007 12:19:08
All the birds are a bit extinct these days. The prophecy isn't that "hot stuff" around amarr parts either.
It's half the price of a harbinger, even if the harb doesn't have that much better stuff in it.
But the point is, there are still those "loyal" bird pilots who love the old machine and the lil quirks it has. There's some things a prophecy can do over the harbinger even today
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
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