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Ran'fex	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:07:00 - [1] hey i was thinking of getting a minmatar becaues of all the cool ships they got, vagabond, Wolf, hurricane. but one thing im a little unsure of is the bigger ship. is the minmatar Battle ships any good in small gangs? i know artillery is great in fleet becaues of the huge alpha strike but do that transfer to gang also? and last but not least is the capital ship any good? i have heard alt about the gallente carrier and the amarr dread but i have never heard anything good about the minmatar carrier and dread. are they really that bad? i know capital ship mabye is not the first thing to worry about but i dont wanna regreat my choice later on.
Marduk Felzhen	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:38:00 - [2] tempest good in fleet and gang typhoon good in gang maelstrom......not quite sure, i hear it sucks Carrier = sux Dread = dunno
Scarl3t Pimpernel	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Scarl3t Pimpernel on 07/06/2007 06:08:21 I find the mael is nice in gangs due to its good DPS and heavy tank, plus you can get good range on 800mm AC IIs with barrage, and maybe a falloff rig or 2. The Tempest can have nice damage when fitted with a shield tank and damage mods. The Phoon can have a decent armor tank or insane damage, making it great for gangs. The Naglfar has the most weapon slots out of any cap ship, yet it doesn't do the most DPS, and has the weakest tank which is a bit meh tbh It also gets primaried lots because it does do decent damage and also has this weak tank so its a good target. Carrier = fail
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel Carrier = fail If you're just starting out, it doesn't make a difference though. By the time you can fly cap ships they will be balanced completely different. -
beor oranes Caldari Furious Angels Requiem-Aeternam	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:36:00 - [5] Edited by: beor oranes on 07/06/2007 06:35:25 I really like the Mael as a BS, I trained up projectiles over hybrids just because of it, instead of going for the Rokh. Fitted right for gangs it can have a decent tank whilest still doing very decent damage. Granted it's slow as hell and can't tackle but if you are using Arties its got the range to cope. With Auto's your tank is a little comprised to make way for a MWD and scram but the range and the damage is very respectable. Problem with Minmatar ships is that they vary between armour and shield tanks, which requires lots of SP to make use all of them. If you do train up for Minmatar then decide you don't like them, you should have the generic turret skill's trained up, so switching from projectiles to hybrids or lasers won't take you that long really. Don't know about the Capital Ships. /edit for early morning typo's. ------------------------------------------------ Either pick a dry year when fighting wars or civilize the moronic races and have no wars at all!
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:44:00 - [6] Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/06/2007 07:43:52 Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel The Phoon can have a decent armor tank or insane damage, making it great for gangs. phoon is far far away from insane damage with its split weapon system and fitting problems... with a gimp gank setup it have troubles to break 1k dps that is quite low for mael imo is not that good, other ships fit that role better and a pest or even a phoon with tank rigs are imo more sustainable and less expensive Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Scarl3t Pimpernel	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Scarl3t Pimpernel on 07/06/2007 08:09:13 4 siege IIs with rage, 4x 800mms with Barrage, 3x gyro II, 3x BCU II, 5x Ogre II = gank, and lots of it, maybe about 1.2k DPS with good skills. And in some ways for DPS a split weapon system is better, since 3x gyros, 3x BCUs is more effective than 6x gyro or 6x BCU due to stacking.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel Edited by: Scarl3t Pimpernel on 07/06/2007 08:09:13 4 siege IIs with rage, 4x 800mms with Barrage, 3x gyro II, 3x BCU II, 5x Ogre II = gank, and lots of it, maybe about 1.2k DPS with good skills. And in some ways for DPS a split weapon system is better, since 3x gyros, 3x BCUs is more effective than 6x gyro or 6x BCU due to stacking. only problem is that you can't fit that Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
josti78	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:13:00 - [9] The maelstrom is arueable the best non faction bs around atm. It can tank better then a abaddon...and can still put out 800+dps while doing it. Just as with most shield tanks...you need a buddy to tackle
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel Carrier = fail If you're just starting out, it doesn't make a difference though. By the time you can fly cap ships they will be balanced completely different. how long was it they took to fix the typhoon again ? TEMPTATION INC. Killboard
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel Carrier = fail If you're just starting out, it doesn't make a difference though. By the time you can fly cap ships they will be balanced completely different. how long was it they took to fix the typhoon again ? phoon is not fixed yet (lot better than before the change but too much troubles to gank it and for a ship that can go only close range is not good ) Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
kessah Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:14:00 - [12] imho they have the best battleships. Tempest has the grid and cpu to fit t2 everything. the Maelstrom is the most damage dealing ship in game (sub capital) thats viable, also tanks like a sonofa*****. Most always stick on 3 dm's. You can fit it out for solo - you just need to use those rig slots to counter the lack of mids after ewar. Phoon cant say ive really flown all that much so i wont comment. -------------------------------------------------------- Signature Your signature has been removed due to a lack of EVE-related content. -Darth Patches
Susa Ou	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:16:00 - [13] Edited by: Susa Ou on 07/06/2007 10:20:21 Minmatar shine around the cruiser level, but their interceptors, battleships and capital ships are quite sub-par even with all your skills trained up. . .And since AFs have kinda lost their rolls in solo and gang - it leaves a few fantastic ships to fly and a lot to be desired for the mataar. And no, the Mael does less alpha, less dps and a little less range then the abaddon with tachs. Added to all this 1400s fit 10 rounds of EMP ammo and a little more of other kinds. . .while Aurora ammo may break, the ammo never runs out. . . The only reason to fly these ships is if you like their looks, if you have trained for them, or if you have some misconception as to what they are capable of. . . At the BB/Capital level, Amarr start to shine - they are fantastic fleet ships. Of course, the Gallente have the Mega and the Caladri have the Rokh, both which are very nice in fleet. Minmatar make sub-par fleet ships for the most part, their roll as skirmishers and excelent speed tankers becomes useless when you have to play in a larger team of people. . .
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:30:00 - [14] Originally by: kessah the Maelstrom is the most damage dealing ship in game (sub capital) thats viable, also tanks like a sonofa*****. Most always stick on 3 dm's. You can fit it out for solo - you just need to use those rig slots to counter the lack of mids after ewar. With that amount, the Maelstrom still has the most midslots a shield tanker can expect to have in PvP - only two (2) other non capital non faction ships in the entire game have that much. After all, a shield tank needs less slots to mount both tackling equipment and tanking equipment... oh, wait. Welcome to the Caldari world
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:28:00 - [15] Forget tackling equipment ! If you are in a slow BS in a ganga and you are with tacklign equipment you are ********! This is for smaller ships to do. MAesltrom shoudl have a 6 slot tank and 8x 800mm AC. Simple as that. Huge damage nearly 1k dps while being able to tank a blasterthron until it runs out of cap. Its slow as a turtle but no problem. You should be warping it after the target has been tacled by the grigs. With an fighting range around 50km its pretty good. The only ships that might be aproblm for it are the ammar BS with huge EM damage. its the only " Battleship as the proper use of the word" in matar ranks. Typhoon is more a huge BC, that fights keeping range and speed under its cotnroll while tempest is a claer " moderately fast" huge gunboat (quite complicated on player skills to use effectively) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:30:00 - [16] I luv them. Phoon = nice when fitted for full gank or sick tank Tempest = fun fun in gangs et al. Reasonable tank, good gank (2x LAR 2x EANM 2x gyro) Maelstrom = zomg dps & zomg tank. just dont try to fit speed mods or tackle gear
Scarl3t Pimpernel	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Ath Amon only problem is that you can't fit that Notice how i left a low slot free, you can put an RCU in there and fit it all with a 100mn MWD II, and a Med elec cap booster, all with AWU 4.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel Originally by: Ath Amon only problem is that you can't fit that Notice how i left a low slot free, you can put an RCU in there and fit it all with a 100mn MWD II, and a Med elec cap booster, all with AWU 4. and you have a ship that do less dmg than a mega, fight in the same way and have 1/4 of its hps... (imo pretty useless ship), probably even a pest will perform better with full gank setup, also if you plan to use rage torps you will need a pair of tps too. imo a gankaphoon can use 3-4 modules max and for my taste no mwd or cap inj, just a couple of plates and ew... there are even some gankaphoon with some shield tanks but even there cpu doesn't permit to fit many dmg mods :( Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Scarl3t Pimpernel	Posted - 2007.06.07 12:47:00 - [19] This guy wants to know about Minmatar battleships, not gallente ones. I never said the phoon was better than the mega at ganking, because IMO, its not, but your point is still irrelevant. The Tempest also does less max dps (and i mean full gank no tank as well) and this has been tried and tested in eve. Whats wrong with having an MWD and cap injector fitted to a typhoon, gives a bit of chance to run away if the fight goes wrong, and 2 spare slots for some target painters maybe? This is a gang setup so you can sit at 20km or so and pew with torps and barrage, then run if you get attacked, there's not much need for a tank, and stuff isn't going to stand up to as much DPS as the gank setup pumps out for long.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Ath Amon on 07/06/2007 13:09:56 can't check now but if i remember right a pest with hails can reach 1.2k dps, probably higher than phoon with barrage and rage (not sure but i think it didn't reach 1.2k) and able to fit a bit of tank and ew for mwd and inj, not overall wrong, is just my taste phoon doesn't benefit that much from hails so barrage are a more natural choice, the big part of phoon dmg comes from torps and drones so range is not really an issue... you don't need to MWD to get fast to point blank as a mega, you can be effective even at 20-30km with ew/pew pew and if you get called without any tank a mwd is not going to save you anyway without MWD cap inj is not anymore that necessary so is another slot you can gain... again this is my taste and of course in a gang with tacklers another thing (but not 100% sure) i think you can't fit 2tps+mwd+t2weapons+6dmg mods... with tps probably you have to drop a pair dmg mods Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Scarl3t Pimpernel	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:26:00 - [21] A Tempest with maxed out skills can do about 1260 DPS with 6x Damage mods, 6x 800mm AC IIs w/hail, 2x Siege Launcher IIs w/rage, 2x Ogre IIs, 2x Hammerhead IIs, 1x Hobgob IIs. Not bad, but leaves it with 5x Medslots and 150 CPU left...no way near enough to put anything near a tank on or even fill the slots, and relies on close range a lot more (DPS taken at optimal) meaning its in greater risk since it cannot escape so quickly. The typhoon gets 1100 DPS w/rage and barrage, not as good, but its faster since it can fit an MWD (i maintain its good for getting out of scram range and warping), and can shoot out at range better. Also, 4x siege IIs, 4x 800 IIs, 100mn MWD II, Med Elec, 2x phased TPS, 3x gyro IIs, 3x BCU IIs, 1x RCU I fits with 6 CPU spare with WU 5.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.07 13:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Ishina Fel Originally by: kessah the Maelstrom is the most damage dealing ship in game (sub capital) thats viable, also tanks like a sonofa*****. Most always stick on 3 dm's. You can fit it out for solo - you just need to use those rig slots to counter the lack of mids after ewar. With that amount, the Maelstrom still has the most midslots a shield tanker can expect to have in PvP - only two (2) other non capital non faction ships in the entire game have that much. After all, a shield tank needs less slots to mount both tackling equipment and tanking equipment... oh, wait. Welcome to the Caldari world Yes. Also armor tankers need less slots to mount both tanking equipment and damage mods... Oh wait... ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel And in some ways for DPS a split weapon system is better, since 3x gyros, 3x BCUs is more effective than 6x gyro or 6x BCU due to stacking. But is identical to having 8 turrets and 3 damage mods. It's a huuuuuge slot disadvantage no matter how you look at it. ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Scarl3t Pimpernel A Tempest with maxed out skills can do about 1260 DPS with 6x Damage mods, 6x 800mm AC IIs w/hail, 2x Siege Launcher IIs w/rage, 2x Ogre IIs, 2x Hammerhead IIs, 1x Hobgob IIs. Not bad, but leaves it with 5x Medslots and 150 CPU left...no way near enough to put anything near a tank on or even fill the slots, and relies on close range a lot more (DPS taken at optimal) meaning its in greater risk since it cannot escape so quickly. nono wait was not speaking of a pest with 6dmg mods... just 3 :P... it should still be around 1200dps and have 3 lows and 5 mids for tank/buffer/ew or even speed... phoon instead to try to reach a similar dps end up with 4 mid and 1 low (probably needed for PG) Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:32:00 - [25] typhoon is great :) 4x siege, 4x AC 5x heavy drones :) --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:33:00 - [26] Only reason to fit a phoon with 6 damagemods is if you dont expect getting shot at. If your not going to get shot at you might aswell use any other armor tanking BS with 3 damagemods and 3 range/tracking mods giving you superior range/tracking. Reason to fly phoon is that it gets 8 weapons with damageboni + 5 heavy drones. Also it has 2/3 of a ravens launchers while being a armortanker and the second largest dronebay of all BS while using capless weapons. Basicly if you want missiles and like drones, prefer armor over shieldtanking, look no further, this is the only ship. Tempest and Maelstrom both are great in smaller gangs. Your ACs will hit cruiser/BCs/BS well and do lots of damage, your guns dont get shut down by nos and the damagetypes you deal are pretty good.
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.07 16:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Riho typhoon is great :) 4x siege, 4x AC 5x heavy drones :) Hard to fit tbh.
Shafty The Movement	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:37:00 - [28] Apart form the mission runner phoon the Matar BS are great, as said the maelstrom can tank and gank well and Id take my tempest up against anything in game smaller than capitals cos i trust in it that much. Point of note though, i did take a long time before everything fell nicely into place, advance weapon upgrades 5 allows a full rack of T2 1400s on the temp without power mods. (Ka-BOOOOOOOOM....)
Sally Fourth	Posted - 2007.06.08 06:38:00 - [29] As it's been said, minmatar BS rock. Phoon is one of the most versatile BS in the game. You can armor tank it, speed tank it and (sorta) shield tank it. You like Nos/drone/missile/guns, you can use them. It Can ewar, and is one of the best heavy tacklers there is. Also, it is one of the few BS that can operate solo effectively. Tempest in fleets and gangs can bring the pain. Besides, nothing in eve beats breaking a Cruiser, BC, CS (Ifthe guy is a idiot) or BS's Tank with the evil alpha strike. Something about those 6 1400s firing that is just pretty. The mealstrom (yes I spelled it wrong on purpose) Stinks. I freaking hate it. I only own one because it was a gift. Everyone talks about how good it is, but a tempest will outdamage it buy about 50 points/sec. Tank peters out faster than a fat kid running uphill after a binge at the twinkie factory. It also hits like a wet noodle. People say they are getting over 900 DPS with it? Even though there math checks out, in practice your getting more like I dunno 3 DPS (all from drones). And for a race who is supossed to be fast, it turns slower than a pregnant stoned hippo. If your a carebear though, it makes a damn good mining boat untill you can get a covetor/hulk or have to show up to mine for a op. Well it's not that bad, but close. Real pretty ship though. And the Machariel..... enough said PS I am drunk atthte time of writing this, but the moostrom still stinks
Bentula	Posted - 2007.06.08 08:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Sally Fourth The mealstrom (yes I spelled it wrong on purpose) Stinks. I freaking hate it. I only own one because it was a gift. Everyone talks about how good it is, but a tempest will outdamage it buy about 50 points/sec. Tank peters out faster than a fat kid running uphill after a binge at the twinkie factory. It also hits like a wet noodle. People say they are getting over 900 DPS with it? Even though there math checks out, in practice your getting more like I dunno 3 DPS (all from drones). And for a race who is supossed to be fast, it turns slower than a pregnant stoned hippo. If your a carebear though, it makes a damn good mining boat untill you can get a covetor/hulk or have to show up to mine for a op. Well it's not that bad, but close. Real pretty ship though. And the Machariel..... enough said PS I am drunk atthte time of writing this, but the moostrom still stinks Maelstrom is a expensive toy for people who dont fly alone and want the ultimate gunboat. Since you own one ill try to help you getting some enjoyment out of it. 1. Fit a Mass reduction rig, now it will handle better than a pest or phoon. 2. Fit 800mm t2 ACs on it and load them with barrage. 3. Fit two projectile falloff rigs. 4. omgpwn! Its not costeffective, then again not every ship can be. Lots of fun though shooting stuff at 40km and having possibly one of the strongest non capital tanks ingame though.

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