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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.01.12 16:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hardin on 08/02/2005 18:52:51
I have finally got round to updating this with more recent information - including the advanced learning skills.
As it is very long and I dont want to repost it all in it entirety I have put it online as a document.
You can view it HERE
I hope people find it helpful...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.01.12 16:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Hardin on 08/02/2005 18:53:58
Updated information HERE
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.01.12 16:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hardin on 08/02/2005 18:53:43
Updated information HERE
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Dworak
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Posted - 2004.01.12 17:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dworak on 12/01/2004 17:33:30
You got way to much sparetime Hardin 
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Ylang Star
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Posted - 2004.01.12 17:42:00 -
[5]
Wow, nice, saved on HD for futur reference, TY!
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it." |
Barry Bleekscheet
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Posted - 2004.01.12 18:52:00 -
[6]
Great!
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.01.12 19:51:00 -
[7]
Hey Hardin, this is great! Can I make a suggestion, as a newbie myself?
I can tell this is written from the perspective of a veteran player, which makes it hard for a newbie. Could you reverse the order of pretty much everything?  I was looking for SOMETHING, ANYTHING that would help me as a newbie when I started the character selection that would tell me what I should put points into!
So, I'd put the "What do the attributes do" at the very top, followed by a list of skills and what attributes they use, and THEN go into the whole thing about Learning skills, what skills to train, etc. etc. Those are things you need to know once you've started playing; the attributes are things you need to know BEFORE you play.
I hope CCP will someday implement some kind of "HELP" feature on the character creation screen that explains all this. I found it very unhelpful.
Seriously, you're a complete newbie, and you're supposed to pick these attributes? Or you click on "Miner" for example, and it is just done? Without even a confirmation? BANG! Here's your character, goodbye!
This is a great guide, too bad I missed it.
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Delc
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Posted - 2004.01.12 23:09:00 -
[8]
Great guide for those that are new to the game! Nice work Hardin!
Make this thread a sticky!
N.A.G.A Corp | NAGAmazon
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Isiana
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Posted - 2004.01.12 23:42:00 -
[9]
again  someone most have bought it during the christmas shopping
Carebear|Me
Alts |
Dzikus
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Posted - 2004.01.13 10:49:00 -
[10]
Good Work - can Anyone make it sticky. Or maybe Polaris/GMs could create more or less official "Guides" direcotry in EVE Insider and put some good Game Rules explanations? Please?
_________________
Never Give Up, Never Surrender! |
INkog
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Posted - 2004.01.15 06:42:00 -
[11]
Good stuff thanks!
I took the liberty to put this information in a Word document which can be found HERE.
*Hardin, let me know if this is not acceptable.
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JGR Mao
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Posted - 2004.01.15 14:48:00 -
[12]
Uhm...
I actually did some calculations, and the formula seems to work....
Did anyone that has trained the learning skill itself and the attribute skills to lvl 5 notice a wierd couple of extra Atrribute points popping up ?
I did.
Heres how i figured out it works...
The Learning skill gives 2% faster learning pr level. But....heres the kicker....It gets applied to your attribute points.
(Base atrribute + implant + Atrribute skill ) x (1+(0,02 x learning skill lvl)) = Final attribute.
This means , that if your char is born with >12 points in any of the attributes, u will be able to get 2 extra bonus attribute points by training the atrribute skill and the learning skill to lvl 5 and using an implant.
Ill use myself as example.
Base mem, 13
Memory augmentation, , 3
Instant recall lvl 5, 5
Total = 21
Learning skill lvl 5, 10%
so.
(13+3+5)x(1+(0,02*5)) = 23
And, low and behold, my attribute is 23 on my charsheet... Wonderfull, gained 2 extra attribute points by training learning to lvl 5 .....
Can someone confirm this, or am i totally off base...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.01.17 13:54:00 -
[13]
Your quite right mate!
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Siobhan
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Posted - 2004.01.21 19:46:00 -
[14]
Yep!
---------
PIE Inc Avenging Angel
www.pie-online.co.uk
--------- |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.01.25 20:08:00 -
[15]
Newbies read this ^^^
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2004.01.26 09:18:00 -
[16]
Please, could this be made sticky again? I frequently instruct newbies, minutes-olds, in our newbie corp channel and during the next hours everything in this thread gets written to the corp chat. Over and over and over again.
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Wraths Dane
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Posted - 2004.01.26 11:03:00 -
[17]
Hehe.. thx for explaining Karol.. also, nice guide..
(used to playing other games, thats usually just easy to get into, then get all the specials sorted later, little harder with Eve)
(but not a typical game at all.. :))
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china doll
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Posted - 2004.01.26 11:05:00 -
[18]
Can attributes go down for any wierd reason?
I noticed my attributes are again on base level, even that I have trained learning skills.
No implants thou... never died either.
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Sable Moran
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Posted - 2004.01.26 13:50:00 -
[19]
 Quote:
Can attributes go down for any wierd reason?
I noticed my attributes are again on base level, even that I have trained learning skills.
No implants thou... never died either.
Known buglet, happens when you switch ships. But it is only a visual glitch, your real attribute values are still safe and sound in the game's database.
-----
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
StewDaddy
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Posted - 2004.01.26 22:10:00 -
[20]
 Man this is great for Noobs!!!!!!!
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.01.28 02:27:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Man this is great for Noobs!!!!!!!
Which is probably why it isn't stickied... *sigh*
*Gently urges Polaris to wake up and sticky this*
You don't think those 6000-some players are all veterans, do you? Get with it, folks...
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.01.28 02:30:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Man this is great for Noobs!!!!!!!
Which is probably why it isn't stickied... *sigh*
*Gently urges Polaris to wake up and sticky this*
You don't think those 6000-some players are all veterans, do you? Get with it, folks...
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Torrigan
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Posted - 2004.01.30 11:28:00 -
[23]
When I found my willpower appeared to have reverted to base level, I set to train Iron Will and it immediately corrected itself. When I stopped training IW it stayed at the correct level.
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Mos Panor
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Posted - 2004.02.04 10:04:00 -
[24]
Excellent post Hardin, very useful indeed.
Thanks! :)
--------------------------
PIE Inc
Captain and Internal Communications Officer |
Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.02.04 17:53:00 -
[25]
We must keep it at top
BUMP 'till it's stickyed
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Jerrod Syn
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Posted - 2004.02.05 16:21:00 -
[26]
This is excellent info. It needs to be sticky.
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.02.05 16:47:00 -
[27]
I'll sticky it, but iy'll probably get eaten by the big bad sticky-eater that ate Hardin's Skill thread on the new player forum 
Join the IC! |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.02.05 17:26:00 -
[28]
Orestes - I hope not - no doubt it was some ugly Minmatar moderator
(not including Eris in that description ofc)
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Ginger Snap
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Posted - 2004.02.08 15:03:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Quote:
Can attributes go down for any wierd reason?
I noticed my attributes are again on base level, even that I have trained learning skills.
No implants thou... never died either.
Known buglet, happens when you switch ships. But it is only a visual glitch, your real attribute values are still safe and sound in the game's database.
Okay... I need some clarifaction... I know the attributes will be visually reset by relogging, and I know the attribs are safe in the game's DB. However, during the time that the stats show up this way, before relogging, do the base stats affect play, or will the real stats always affect play regardless of the visual display?
Thanks,
Ginger Snap
CEO and Pop Diva, Lolli Pop |
Ginger Snap
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Posted - 2004.02.08 15:46:00 -
[30]
By the way... Great article
Felt like I should add that...
--
Ginger Snap
CEO and Pop Diva, Lolli Pop |
Sable Moran
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Posted - 2004.02.09 14:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sable Moran on 09/02/2004 14:52:33
The attributes only affect the speed of your skill training. Everytime a new skill training is started the game engine checks the database for the real values of your attributes and uses those values to calculate how fast the skill trains (skillpoints per second).
So to answer your question your real stats are what matters, always.
-----
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Ginger Snap
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Posted - 2004.02.09 21:35:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Edited by: Sable Moran on 09/02/2004 14:52:33
The attributes only affect the speed of your skill training. Everytime a new skill training is started the game engine checks the database for the real values of your attributes and uses those values to calculate how fast the skill trains (skillpoints per second).
So to answer your question your real stats are what matters, always.
Outstanding
So I can quit relogging when I change ships.
YAY!
--
Ginger Snap
CEO and Pop Diva, Lolli Pop |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.02.09 22:18:00 -
[33]
Yes and apparently this bug was fixed in todays patch anyway!
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Staind Cold
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Posted - 2004.02.12 20:28:00 -
[34]
Great!
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Phyrexia
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Posted - 2004.02.14 16:16:00 -
[35]
Thanks alot!!
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Solaris Soze
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:33:00 -
[36]
willpower is no longer primary in any gunnery skill. thought that you may want to change your guide...
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Xanther
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Posted - 2004.02.24 16:05:00 -
[37]
i wish i had read this when i was starting or i would have hit learning straight off. as far as starting attributes, i think it's more beneficial to go for balance over focus. i've got skills from everywhere, and you can always pump what you use most with implants and the learning skills
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2004.02.29 10:50:00 -
[38]
Shiny, shiny, shiny disco balls.
Very good post Hardin.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Ragetti
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Posted - 2004.03.08 22:08:00 -
[39]
Thanks for the info mate, very helpful indeed!
Keep it up. 
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Forrester
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Posted - 2004.03.09 02:13:00 -
[40]
Excellent guide mate!
Thanks.
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Kreeper
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Posted - 2004.03.09 15:15:00 -
[41]
can u stack implants? like have a complete set of 5 and plug another coplete set of 5 in as well?
-----------------------------------------------
Calling Christos Hendez come back to EvE
Smother another Failur
Lay this to rest...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.09 16:23:00 -
[42]
Nope
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2004.03.10 15:29:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I'll sticky it, but iy'll probably get eaten by the big bad sticky-eater that ate Hardin's Skill thread on the new player forum
The following post is one that I made TWICE and both times it got deleted...once after being stickied...
---------------------------------------------------
OK, this is a portion of a post I made a while back and has since been deleted for some reason or other. I removed all the basic crap and left the good stuff: How attributes REALLY work, specifically how they effect skill training time.
This is what most people don't seem to quite understand, so read carefully. The catch is that the 'Learning' skill does not do exactly what it claims. Instead it adds 2% more to your attribs per level.
eg.
Base intel 5 with Anayltical Mind lv 5 gives you 10.0 attrib points.
Add learning lv 5 to that and it's (5+5)+((5+5)*5*.02) = 11.0
Add an Basic Implant and it's (5+5+3)+((5+5+3)*5*.02) = 14.3
You'll note the +3.3 attrib gain for adding a +3.0 implant.
Also, you'll notice that your attributes are always displayed as whole numbers. They are rarely actually whole. The number is TRUNCATED, not rounded. For instance, my Memory, which displays as 20, is actually 20.9.
Now, you simply plug your correct attribs into the forumla:
(SPNeeded - CurrentSP) / (PriAttrib + (SecAttrib / 2))
This will yield the total number of minutes remaining.
eg.
Missile Launcher Operation training from 66,096 to 256,000 SP.
Primary attrib is Perception, Secondary is Willpower.
I have Spatial Awareness lv 5, Iron Will lv 5, Learning lv 5, and both relevent implants.
My Perception is (4+5+3)+((4+5+3)*5*.02) = 13.2
My Willpower is (7+5+3)+((7+5+3)*5*.02) = 16.5
(256000-66096)/(13.2+(16.5/2)) = 8853.33 minutes or 6 Days, 3 Hours, 33 Minutes, 20 Seconds. This EXACTLY matches what EVE is telling me is left on this skill....to the second.
To Go To Level 5, Or Not To Go To Level 5?
Constently debated is how whorthwhile is it to train any of the 6 learning skills up to level 5. Well, this is difficult to answer.
OK, using the Missile Launcher Operation skill example in the previous section, with all lv 5 skills and basic implants, the time remaining is 6 Days 3 Hours 33 Minutes 20 Seconds. If I change my skills all down to lv 4, this becomes 6 Days 18 Hours 43 Minutes 42 Seconds. This is a 10% increase in speed for having the lv 5 skills! That'll knock 3 days off of the average person's Industrial lv 5 training. If we just take Learning down to lv 4, it becomes 6 Days 6 Hours 11 Seconds, a 1.65% increase in speed.
Now, based on that, and assuming it takes you exactly 6 days to train Learning from lv 4 to lv 5, this would only be beneficial if you played EVE, after having trained it, for approximately 140 days. It should be noted that the lower you base attribute, the more beneficial higher levels of the learning skills are.
---
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.10 17:14:00 -
[44]
Good addition Tripoli - I knew the Learning skill worked in the way you say - I just couldn't be bothered to go into the detail you have
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Jao I
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Posted - 2004.03.10 21:29:00 -
[45]
Very useful info. Thanks!
// Future, without past! |
Forrester
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Posted - 2004.03.11 00:34:00 -
[46]
Thanks for the guide Hardin, excellent and interesting read!
Keep it up mate :)
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Saerison
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Posted - 2004.03.12 16:26:00 -
[47]
Thanks for the guide being new to the game and having a corp try and explain what you posted made all the difference in the world!
Saerison
Red Core
New Player in Training |
Cyrus la'Fuir
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Posted - 2004.03.16 19:36:00 -
[48]
I have a question. I now know the importance of your skill levels up high..but what does the rank do? On Eve-insider there is rank for all my skills. Can u increase this rank?
I apologise now if this question was answered before but I couldnt find any referrence to it.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.18 15:23:00 -
[49]
5) I am sure most of you know but skills also have ranks. A rank 2 skill will take 2x as long to train as a rank 1 skill. A rank 5 skill will take 5x as long. Most of the basic skills in the game are rank 1 but there are higher rank skills (such as Drones Interfacing) that are rank 5. If you have bad attributes a skill such as this can take over 24 days to train from Level 4 to Level 5 - whereas the right attributes can knock days off this time.
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Tyrack
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Posted - 2004.03.19 16:41:00 -
[50]
Just started:
I want to be a trader/contraband runner and due to the skills I choose in character creation, I have like 12 base charm (~6 in all other skills), yet here everyone is telling me that Charm is useless. Should I reroll?
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.19 23:10:00 -
[51]
I suggest you do...
Charisma is only useful for a few skills - even if it is low u can give it enough of a boost with learning skills and implants to make it reasonable...
I would suggest Perception, Intel and Mem are more important as they have a much bigger impact on a wide range of skills you willr equire in your chose career such as piloting and navigation skills...
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Phaethon
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Posted - 2004.03.20 00:19:00 -
[52]
This site has guides to Race and Education
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/caelin/
not sure if anything has changed since the info was compiled.
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Jiere LaFortune
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Posted - 2004.03.20 15:20:00 -
[53]
Pirate Bravado |
Swaefa
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Posted - 2004.03.21 16:28:00 -
[54]
As a noob, I have a dumbass question. In the first post of this thread it suggests a training routine to get memory, intelligence, and learning to level 4 as soon as possible. I found a learning pack on the market and am in the precess of getting to lvl 4, but I have not found anything I can buy or that I already have that I can train for memory and/or intelligence. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.21 23:59:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Hardin on 22/03/2004 00:00:26
Quote:
Please be aware that the Perception learning skill is called Spatial Awareness...the Willpower learning skill is called Iron Will... Charisma is call Empathy... Memory is Instant Recall and Intelligence is called Analytical Mind
Quote:
To train skills you do not already have You need to purchase 'skill' books. You can buy these in the 'starter' stations. You need to open the market screen (make sure it is set to 'This Station Only') and then you should see a 'skills' section. You can also obtain some of the new higher level research skills from agents.
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djskum
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:54:00 -
[56]
Been playing for about 3 days. When I started I spread out my skills a little, not alot but a little. I'm interested in doing a little of everything (mostly fighting). My perception is at about 11, but should I re-roll, am I nerfed?
Or does it just mean that some of my skills will take a little longer to mature ;-)
DjSKum
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Trader Klyde
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Posted - 2004.03.22 19:21:00 -
[57]
Thanks for posting the link on EBPortal.
I sure wish I had seen the guide prior to setting up my toon. (sigh) Well, at least I can modify from here...
Thanks much, very good info. 
________________________________________________
From deep in space where nobody hears my screams...
Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style. |
Fjellu
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Posted - 2004.03.23 06:30:00 -
[58]
As I just started I am in no position to tell if the advice are good or not.
First advice was to train your Memory = Instant Recall and Intelligence = Analytical Mind.
I have one problem with this. I am starting with about 1000 ISK an not having either of the skills mentioned above. Buying Instant Recall is 55000 ISK and I'm already training for level 3 in learning since I didn't have the cash.
Have I done something wrong here? Pls advice
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Efeu
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Posted - 2004.03.23 12:35:00 -
[59]
Depends Fjellu,
if you follow the tutorial missions, you should have had enough cash for some level 1 agent missions. From there its mostly 3 missions cash is enough for another basic skill package without depleting your necessary cash stock.
Regards,
Efeu
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.23 15:09:00 -
[60]
Quote:
1) Charisma is prolly the most useless attribute in the game at the moment (although it is fractional more useful since the recent Castor patch).
I would disagree. It has lots more to do with what will come. With such a statement it seems that players should not consider this a valid attribute. Scientists need this skill greatly.
The problem with this whole guide is that its a personal opion.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:04:00 -
[61]
I think you will find that most people agree with me mate and as someone with 22 Carisma I personally have nothing against it... apart from the fact that I am on only 10 million skill points from the launch of the game and most of my contemporaries have many more!
I have also stated that Charisma may be more useful later on - we still have to see this though.
At the moment it contributes to speeding the training of approximately 5 skills (as a primary skill). As most people in their EVE lifetime willl be training a lot more than this I think its perfectly reasonable to suggest that other attributes are much mor elikely to effect skill training than charisma!
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2004.03.24 18:51:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 29/10/2004 08:59:25
Edited: I have since become wiser.
Attribs are given 2% - That does not make you go 2% faster. Almost, but not quite.
Trak Cranker |
Sir Ant
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Posted - 2004.03.24 20:07:00 -
[63]
Hi, The post is real in depth, if possible place one for the industry community (miners manufactures etc etc.) so we can better serve the EvE Community.
CEO of Industrial Miners Inc.
You either ride with us, or collide with us. |
Heihatchi
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Posted - 2004.03.25 23:00:00 -
[64]
Huh
_____ (\_/)
(> <) (X.x) This is Headless Bunny. Copy Headless Bunny into your signature to help prevent his attempt at world domination. |
Itan Kirdett
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Posted - 2004.03.27 16:14:00 -
[65]
wow
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Saerison
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Posted - 2004.03.29 13:32:00 -
[66]
After being about two weeks into the game now. Once I read through this thread it was apparent that i needed to remake based on what I wanted to do.
I really appreciate all of the information on this thread. As long as a new player comes to this thread shortly after starting most of their inital questions will be answered.
Thanks.
Saerison
Red Core
New Player in Training |
Kalystia
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Posted - 2004.03.30 14:28:00 -
[67]
yeah it is a good topic; I started EVE last week-end and this guide helped me quite a lot when starting my character.
Thanks a lot guys
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Veko
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Posted - 2004.04.03 13:20:00 -
[68]
Thank you very much Hardin! It is my second day in EVE universe and you have saved A LOT of my time by sharing your wisdom with us, noobs I'm trying to concentrate on my learning skills in order to maximize the potential return on invested time. This is a bit silly though as i have to wait for intelligence/memory/learning to train while being able only to mine asteroids in the same safe zone. But hope once this is done it will pay for itself. Thank you.
Fighting for the perfection of sweets' recepies
Yesterday's fiction is today's reality |
Whitethorn
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Posted - 2004.04.06 12:51:00 -
[69]
Great info, Hardin :)
I started playing nearly 3 weeks ago, and its pretty obvious that the people who gave me advice at the start had read your posts on here. I now have most of the learning skills up at or near level 4 and am already seeing major effects on training times.
I estimate that the combination of increased stats and the learning skill has cut my average training times by around 30% so far. This means that some of the level 4 rank 1 skills are now getting down to the point where I can start them one evening and finish them by the end of the next evening's playing, which means I can make better use of the time I'm not playing for training, which boosts the effect on my skills even more.
The odd bits of incomplete long-duration skills I tend to finish off over the weekends when I can get online a lot more regularly. With more skills completing during the week, and less time left where skills do overrun, this means less time spend finishing things off and more starting new skills :)
Whitethorn |
Darth Revanant
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Posted - 2004.04.21 23:15:00 -
[70]
Is there any way to find out what your base attributes are? I didn't write mine down when I created my character and now I can't get these formulas to work bacause I don't know the base numbers. My char. sheet says
Intel: 12
Per: 15
Char: 5
Will: 22
Mem: 11
That's with analytical mind, spatial awareness, iron will, and instant recall all at lvl 4, social at lvl 2 and one basic willpower implant and one basic perception implant.
No matter how many times I plug the numbers, I don't get the same amt of training time that eve says i have left. Help?!
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.04.27 18:45:00 -
[71]
A nice Gallente wench called Gween created this. Very good work.
I thought I would add it here as it complements the stuff I have done.
Godd work Gween
Originally by: Gween
Amarr
Basic - Liberal Holders
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 6, Perception: 4, Memory: 6, Willpower: 11
Basic - Wealthy Commoners
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 4, Perception: 4, Memory: 9, Willpower: 10
Basic - Religious Reclaimers
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 3, Perception: 4, Memory: 6, Willpower: 14
Ni-Kunni - Free Marchants
Intelligence: 5, Charisma: 12, Perception: 7, Memory: 6, Willpower: 4
Ni-Kunni - Border Runners
Intelligence: 6, Charisma: 8, Perception: 10, Memory: 6, Willpower: 4
Ni-Kunni - Navy Veterans
Intelligence: 5, Charisma: 8, Perception: 7, Memory: 6, Willpower: 8
Caldari
Deteis - Merchandisers
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 6, Perception: 5, Memory: 11, Willpower: 5
Deteis - Scientists
Intelligence: 10, Charisma: 6, Perception: 6, Memory: 7, Willpower: 5
Deteis - Tube Child
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 6, Perception: 5, Memory: 7, Willpower: 9
Civire - Entrepeneurs
Intelligence: 5, Charisma: 6, Perception: 9, Memory: 8, Willpower: 6
Civire - Mercs
Intelligence: 5, Charisma: 6, Perception: 9, Memory: 4, Willpower: 10
Civire - Dissenters
Intelligence: 5, Charisma: 8, Perception: 9, Memory: 4, Willpower: 8
Gallente
Basic - Activists
Intelligence: 6, Charisma: 12, Perception: 8, Memory: 4, Willpower: 4
Basic - Miners
Intelligence: 6, Charisma: 8, Perception: 8, Memory: 8, Willpower: 4
Basic - Immigrants
Intelligence: 6, Charisma: 8, Perception: 10, Memory: 4, Willpower: 6
Intaki - Artists
Intelligence: 8, Charisma: 8, Perception: 5, Memory: 7, Willpower: 6
Intaki - Diplomats
Intelligence: 8, Charisma: 10, Perception: 3, Memory: 7, Willpower: 6
Intaki - Reborn
Intelligence: 8, Charisma: 6, Perception: 3, Memory: 11, Willpower: 6
Minmatar
Sebiestor - Tinkerers
Intelligence: 11, Charisma: 6, Perception: 5, Memory: 6, Willpower: 6
Sebiestor - Traders
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 10, Perception: 5, Memory: 6, Willpower: 6
Sebiestor - Rebels
Intelligence: 7, Charisma: 6, Perception: 8, Memory: 6, Willpower: 7
Brutor - Workers
Intelligence: 4, Charisma: 6, Perception: 9, Memory: 8, Willpower: 7
Brutor - Tribal Traditionalists
Intelligence: 4, Charisma: 7, Perception: 9, Memory: 4, Willpower: 10
Brutor - Slave Child
Intelligence: 4, Charisma: 6, Perception: 11, Memory: 4, Willpower: 9
These are the base points without the five bonus points you can spend at creation.
I wont list all possible school/area/class/specialization as these are only for skills and not the attributes. (and that would be abit too much, for now)
Thanks.
If you want to know more about attributes and how they work with skills, check Hardin's Attributes & Skills - A Guide.
Have fun!
|
Gween
|
Posted - 2004.04.27 19:13:00 -
[72]
Originally by: "Darth Revanant"
Is there any way to find out what your base attributes are? I didn't write mine down when I created my character and now I can't get these formulas to work bacause I don't know the base numbers. My char. sheet says
Intel: 12
Per: 15
Char: 5
Will: 22
Mem: 11
That's with analytical mind, spatial awareness, iron will, and instant recall all at lvl 4, social at lvl 2 and one basic willpower implant and one basic perception implant.
No matter how many times I plug the numbers, I don't get the same amt of training time that eve says i have left. Help?!
Tell me your learning skill lvl and i'll tell you your base points.
@Hardin:
If i ever write down all skills, you get at creation with every bloodline (LOADS of choices to choose ), i'll directly post it in here.
Have fun!
--------------
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Cuebick
|
Posted - 2004.04.29 18:34:00 -
[73]
Brilliant work hardin.
____________________________________
|
CodeFreeze
|
Posted - 2004.05.04 10:25:00 -
[74]
Like others have said I wish I'd known this info from the start.
The most important thread on the forums if you ask me, at least for newbies.
And interesting to know the Learning skill doesn't work at all as it suggests in the description.
Nice work
|
Lord Wimbishi
|
Posted - 2004.05.04 12:23:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 04/05/2004 13:11:01
Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 04/05/2004 13:03:20
Hardin I just read your info. At start you got the attribute thing all backwards and later corrected yourself. Perception and Intelligence are the two biggest leading attributes. Will and Mem are second in most of the categories. Drones, Industry and Leadership are the exceptions. Charisma is very important for agent runners and CEO's for the corporation skill group. Not everyone wants to be boss granted so didn't focus on this attribute but is also the prime factor for social skills also dealing with security status increase bonuses.
You spent a good deal of time putting this stuff together. I applaud you on that. The biggest things for new characters to worry about are the main fields of the game that are played right now those being Warrior, industrialist, scientist, and Merchant. These areas of thought can help new players focus valuable skill training time and to maximize your character as efficient as possible. Now days there are many old veterans and it will be very hard to catch up and try to match some of the potential we have now. So specialization is a key to success now to new characters in my honest opinion.
Warriors should be flexible between gunnery engineering electronics, spaceship command, and navigation. Secondary concerns should be drones and mechanic and a bit of science for the implants. So a good balance between the skills should be immplemented. per and will for with int and mem. I myself went with higher int and mem due to my calidar tendancy to use a hoard of engineering skills. Best for traiing for their hard shields and other skills still leaving good scores in per and will.
All Characters should have Navigation, Engineering and Electronics if they intend to spend alot of time in space. More electronics and engineering are demanding to the warrior career though.
Obvious due the training paths Gunnery, Industry, Science are the biggest trees in the game now. Spaceship command is a big tree and should be trained in a specialised way towards career path chosen. Industrialists getting haulers and cruisers. Scientists cruiser at most maybe a hauler to help out. and the warrior should focus on one skill branch of a race and their given weapons. Yeah it would be cool to fly 4 or so battleships but if you let a cruiser fly circles around you and only being with the medicore skill levels to fight that dude you gonna get owned if he knows what he is doing. Granted it is very improbable but it can happen.
I am a warrior and visualy my scores with implants are 19int 16 mem per char and 17 mem. try to balance if you plan on fighting a lot just my personal opinion. You will be training a wide range of skills and think the warrior is the most demanding and intensive career.
Industrialists should focus on industry, some science and drones to protect themselves totally there is a big range of skills you need to achieve in order to be effective and prosperous in a corp. Having some interest in spaceship command namely amarr and trying to get gal or minmatar for the hauler abilities. concerns navigate electronics engineering and drones for defense when mining.
Scientists have a busy job and do very well as a double role of agent mission seekers. They can safely build char int and mem. with interests similar the industrialist.
Merchants should focus on social skills, navigation and hauler skills of the minmatar and gal races. They are the back bone of the trade industry with the industrialist for a corp. making yourself trustworthy and shrewd in dealing you can make a lot of money.
Anyways just points for thought for new players
|
Milenko Rough
|
Posted - 2004.05.05 03:42:00 -
[76]
Woo!
Excellent guide, thanks heaps mate!~
_____________________________________
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Gripen
|
Posted - 2004.05.06 01:03:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Gripen on 06/05/2004 01:19:09
Originally by: Tripoli
This is what most people don't seem to quite understand, so read carefully. The catch is that the 'Learning' skill does not do exactly what it claims. Instead it adds 2% more to your attribs per level.
eg.
Base intel 5 with Anayltical Mind lv 5 gives you 10.0 attrib points.
Add learning lv 5 to that and it's (5+5)+((5+5)*5*.02) = 11.0
Add an Basic Implant and it's (5+5+3)+((5+5+3)*5*.02) = 14.3
You'll note the +3.3 attrib gain for adding a +3.0 implant.
Also, you'll notice that your attributes are always displayed as whole numbers. They are rarely actually whole. The number is TRUNCATED, not rounded. For instance, my Memory, which displays as 20, is actually 20.9.
That seems to be wrong.
I can't remember my initial attributes, but if your formula (BaseAttr+AttrSkillLvl+Imp)*(1+0.02*LearningLvl)=FinalAttr is right they can be easily found.
According to it I've had 39 points from the beginning, while all chars have 34 in total.
|
Gween
|
Posted - 2004.05.06 07:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Gripen
Edited by: Gripen on 06/05/2004 01:19:09
Originally by: Tripoli
This is what most people don't seem to quite understand, so read carefully. The catch is that the 'Learning' skill does not do exactly what it claims. Instead it adds 2% more to your attribs per level.
eg.
Base intel 5 with Anayltical Mind lv 5 gives you 10.0 attrib points.
Add learning lv 5 to that and it's (5+5)+((5+5)*5*.02) = 11.0
Add an Basic Implant and it's (5+5+3)+((5+5+3)*5*.02) = 14.3
You'll note the +3.3 attrib gain for adding a +3.0 implant.
Also, you'll notice that your attributes are always displayed as whole numbers. They are rarely actually whole. The number is TRUNCATED, not rounded. For instance, my Memory, which displays as 20, is actually 20.9.
That seems to be wrong.
I can't remember my initial attributes, but if your formula (BaseAttr+AttrSkillLvl+Imp)*(1+0.02*LearningLvl)=FinalAttr is right they can be easily found.
According to it I've had 39 points from the beginning, while all chars have 34 in total.
It doesnt work that easy - your attributes are 17,6 (16 without learning, ergo: base+imp+attribute skill) or 23,1 (21 without learning ~b+i+as~) if you trained learning to lvl5, eg - and the game always shows rounded down numbers and you cant use the in-game numbers to calc your base attributes.
--------------
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Gripen
|
Posted - 2004.05.07 00:04:00 -
[79]
Why not? If I use rounded attribute I'll get fractional result and just round it to greater. For example: game shows 16 perception, I have basic imp, learning V and spatial awareness 4.
(Base+4+3)*(1+5*0.02)=16
Base = 7.545454
Assuming, that starting attributes are integer numbers my base perc was 8.
Just to make sure: (8+4+3)*(1+5*0.02)=16.5 so my current perc is 16.5, truncated to 16. If I take 7 as my base (7.545454 rounded down) I'll get 15.4 here so I rounded it up.
|
Asta Wilde
|
Posted - 2004.05.09 07:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Gripen
According to it I've had 39 points from the beginning, while all chars have 34 in total.
34 attribute points are allocated in the character creation plus 5 more extra attribute points are given to you and you can choose where to put those 5 points. I believe that's how it works anyway.
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Captain Deathette
|
Posted - 2004.05.10 02:29:00 -
[81]
Thanks so much for the information... very useful and informative.. Just joined Eve and this sure helps sort out some things. Thanks again! It is appreciated.
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Kasika
|
Posted - 2004.05.10 23:36:00 -
[82]
This is great. I learned a lot.
-----------------------------------
My IBIS is knowed as "The ultimate power in the universe".
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Fjellu
|
Posted - 2004.05.11 10:32:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Fjellu on 11/05/2004 10:34:26
Originally by: Darth Revanant
Is there any way to find out what your base attributes are? I didn't write mine down when I created my character and now I can't get these formulas to work bacause I don't know the base numbers. My char. sheet says
Intel: 12
Per: 15
Char: 5
Will: 22
Mem: 11
That's with analytical mind, spatial awareness, iron will, and instant recall all at lvl 4, social at lvl 2 and one basic willpower implant and one basic perception implant.
No matter how many times I plug the numbers, I don't get the same amt of training time that eve says i have left. Help?!
I had the same problem when filling in the excellent skills spreadsheet by Lachenlaud. Your message doesn't tell your learning level, which is also taken into account.
The formula for calculating your base skill attribute is:
(Base attribute + skill level + implant)*(1+(0,02*learning skill level)= Total attribute
With learning skill at level 5 you get a multiplier of 1,1 to your attribute, skill and implant. The total attribute level is rounded downwards. So a base level of 12 with level 5 and and implant (total 20), will show a total of 22, but a total of 19 will only show up as 20 (11+5+3*1,1=20,9).
Hope this helps.
|
Lord Wimbishi
|
Posted - 2004.05.12 13:14:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 25/05/2004 09:24:22
This the EXACT formula to resolve this issue.
the formula in length which I will detail out is this.
(P + I)+ Lsk) + (S + I) + Lsk / 2) = T, (Sktp / T) - Lsk%) / 60)/ 24)= Ts
P rimary attrib
I mplants
Lsk Learning skill
S econdary attrib
T otal
Sktp Skill total points
Sot Sum of Total
Lsk Learning skill percentage
and / is the divided sign.
make sure you do the math between the ( ) first before continuing on in the chain.
Ok this is how it works
Take add your implant bonuses to your attribute scores then add your learning skill lvls. Then use your primary score as base, then halve your secondary attribute value and then add it to the primary to reach a total skill points per minute. example
(10 int + 3)+ 5) + ( 8 mem + 3) +5 / 2) = 26
Now to figure how the rest comes in you must realise that those 'added' points are not really there and is a 'repensentation' of them not an actual value.
take the total points that you need to train. To find that, you need to take the total points and minus it from the points you already have attained. dividing this sum by your training modifier which was derived from your attributes; will net you the amount of minutes it would take to train. You would take this sum finally minusing your learning skill say like 10%. to get the true amount of skill point time you need to get that next level. To find the exact time needed you would begin to divide it by 60; representing 60 mins in the hour, and then by 24 representing the hours in a day to reach the total days and such of how long it will take.
To really simplify most of the issues with out busting a brain cell look up on www.eve-i.com for the skill training calulater. the biggest thing to remember when using it is to add only your raw begining attributes with your added implants. DO NOT add your learning lvls in as it already does this.
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Tariq Steel
|
Posted - 2004.05.27 05:17:00 -
[85]
First and foremost, you have to be patient. We were all noobs once and have made our way to bigger and better things. Patience, willingness to explore, willingness to talk, etc will help you in EVE.
<<Tariq Steel>>
Doin' my thang with an eternity swing!
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Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2004.06.01 17:09:00 -
[86]
Please please by the mercy of God, unsticky this one!
Hardin has not been the same man since the day it got stickied, I think his liking for Gallente wenches started around that time too!
So save Hardin and unsticky this one! :)
----------------------------------------------
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Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.06.01 20:17:00 -
[87]
oi -
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Lachenlaud
|
Posted - 2004.06.01 20:57:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Please please by the mercy of God, unsticky this one!
Hardin has not been the same man since the day it got stickied, I think his liking for Gallente wenches started around that time too!
So save Hardin and unsticky this one! :)
ROFLMAO
Hey hardin - do you mind terribly if I add a copy of this info to the Eve Skills Spreadsheet I've compiled? I'll give ya full credit!
Lemme know in an EveMail!
Thanks!
[email protected]
http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/
Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!! |
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.06.02 10:36:00 -
[89]
Even though you are a Minmatar you are trying to benefit the entire EVE population so go right ahead
Just so everyone knows Gaius has not been the same ever since he got mentioned in the official news as the 'Grand Inquisitor'
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Chuck Curby
|
Posted - 2004.06.03 00:55:00 -
[90]
I have this skill sheet at my site
Skill Sheet
Does find out what to focus on when using primay and secondary attrib.
it's in a Beta stage so be nice.
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Photon
|
Posted - 2004.06.10 10:29:00 -
[91]
very nice guide INDEED!!
Now I have my perfect char :D
--------------------------------------------
My passion is to fly, nothing beats it, nothing can compare to it. Free as a bird. Bird of prey. |
Krulla
|
Posted - 2004.06.13 16:32:00 -
[92]
Great post! Very informative!
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Boogyman
|
Posted - 2004.06.28 19:23:00 -
[93]
Am I correct in assuming that the actual fractional attribute score is used in skill training time and not the truncated value shown on the skill sheet?
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Bropine
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 23:10:00 -
[94]
I just started playing EVE about a week ago (my best friend has been trying to get me here for 3 months) and this is the most useful guide/post I have seen yet. Don't EVER unsticky it!
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Bropine
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 23:10:00 -
[95]
I just started playing EVE about a week ago (my best friend has been trying to get me here for 3 months) and this is the most useful guide/post I have seen yet. Don't EVER unsticky it!
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Coyotee
|
Posted - 2004.08.19 13:48:00 -
[96]
As a complete n00b i thank you for the high quality info. Im excited about the depth of Eve but i must admit its a bit daunting here at the start.
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Coyotee
|
Posted - 2004.08.19 13:48:00 -
[97]
As a complete n00b i thank you for the high quality info. Im excited about the depth of Eve but i must admit its a bit daunting here at the start.
|
Dog Howzer
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 18:27:00 -
[98]
If I read this all correctly, the Learning skill has the following thresholds:
Level Minimum total Attribute for +1:
1 (1.02) 50 (never)
2 (1.04) 25 (never )
3 (1.06) 17
4 (1.08) 13 and +2 @ 25
5 (1.10) 10 and +2 @ 20
Is that correct?
|
Dog Howzer
|
Posted - 2004.08.31 18:27:00 -
[99]
If I read this all correctly, the Learning skill has the following thresholds:
Level Minimum total Attribute for +1:
1 (1.02) 50 (never)
2 (1.04) 25 (never)
3 (1.06) 17
4 (1.08) 13 and +2 @ 25
5 (1.10) 10 and +2 @ 20
Is that correct?
|
Bubbafett
|
Posted - 2004.09.02 20:03:00 -
[100]
Wow nice one man. Good to see that i chose the right attributes to train. Have been playing for 8 days and I pretty much have followed your advice all be it unknowingly. I train long skills while at work and asleep and shorter ones while awke or playing. I have also trained my base skills up to a decent level to compliment my warrior career path. Thanks again, spot on post.
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Bubbafett
|
Posted - 2004.09.02 20:03:00 -
[101]
Wow nice one man. Good to see that i chose the right attributes to train. Have been playing for 8 days and I pretty much have followed your advice all be it unknowingly. I train long skills while at work and asleep and shorter ones while awke or playing. I have also trained my base skills up to a decent level to compliment my warrior career path. Thanks again, spot on post.
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Claudine
|
Posted - 2004.09.04 01:25:00 -
[102]
What can I say? nice info, good work and thank you ;)
|
Claudine
|
Posted - 2004.09.04 01:25:00 -
[103]
What can I say? nice info, good work and thank you ;)
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Miss Right
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 12:32:00 -
[104]
So what's the most effective way to train your learning skills? The order i'm currently training is Mem 1 Int 1 Mem 2 Int 2 Mem 3 and when I'm at desired level I'm going for Learning 1>4. But I think I remember someone say I should train them all at once i.e. Mem 1 Int 1 Learning 1, Mem 2 Int 2 Learning 2 etc.
Help?
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Miss Right
|
Posted - 2004.09.11 12:32:00 -
[105]
So what's the most effective way to train your learning skills? The order i'm currently training is Mem 1 Int 1 Mem 2 Int 2 Mem 3 and when I'm at desired level I'm going for Learning 1>4. But I think I remember someone say I should train them all at once i.e. Mem 1 Int 1 Learning 1, Mem 2 Int 2 Learning 2 etc.
Help?
|
Avoid
|
Posted - 2004.10.05 22:40:00 -
[106]
nice guid
|
Avoid
|
Posted - 2004.10.05 22:40:00 -
[107]
nice guid
|
Wharchild
|
Posted - 2004.10.06 22:29:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Wharchild on 07/10/2004 02:16:23
There is a major caveat to be considered in character creation. The developers have a history of switching the primary/secondary attributes on skill trees, so creating a character who is a "specialist" (as I did) may come back to haunt you. 
For example, at one point in time many gunnery skills were Willpower primary and Perception secondary. They were then changed to all be Perception primary and Willpower secondary, much to the chagrin of players who created characters with a high Willpower. Technology level 1 ship command skills are all Perception primary and Willpower secondary. With the introduction of tech level 2 ships, we find the attributes reversed. Learning skills are Memory primary and Intelligence secondary. Advanced learning skills were recently introduced... Their attribute requirements are all over the place.
Even with a complete understanding of attributes and skill training, creating a specialist by favoring the primary attribute(s) in your chosen field(s) puts you in a position to have the rug pulled out from under you. And given the developers' history of multiple switches of this nature, it's a safe bet they will make more in the future. Which is why many players recommend creating a relatively balanced character with respect to attributes.
|
Wharchild
|
Posted - 2004.10.06 22:29:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Wharchild on 07/10/2004 02:16:23
There is a major caveat to be considered in character creation. The developers have a history of switching the primary/secondary attributes on skill trees, so creating a character who is a "specialist" (as I did) may come back to haunt you.
For example, at one point in time many gunnery skills were Willpower primary and Perception secondary. They were then changed to all be Perception primary and Willpower secondary, much to the chagrin of players who created characters with a high Willpower. Technology level 1 ship command skills are all Perception primary and Willpower secondary. With the introduction of tech level 2 ships, we find the attributes reversed. Learning skills are Memory primary and Intelligence secondary. Advanced learning skills were recently introduced... Their attribute requirements are all over the place.
Even with a complete understanding of attributes and skill training, creating a specialist by favoring the primary attribute(s) in your chosen field(s) puts you in a position to have the rug pulled out from under you. And given the developers' history of multiple switches of this nature, it's a safe bet they will make more in the future. Which is why many players recommend creating a relatively balanced character with respect to attributes.
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Svart Imposter
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 10:03:00 -
[110]
Many thanks, this is great stuff :D
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Svart Imposter
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 10:03:00 -
[111]
Many thanks, this is great stuff :D
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Brasilis Iberum
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 11:26:00 -
[112]
Hi Hardin,
Nice to communicate with you again.
Really nice guide you have here.
Would you give me permission to translate your manual into Portuguese? Credits will remain the same: Hardin as author and inspiring guru .
Tell me what you think please?
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
First twice: First in Latin America, first in Portuguese. |
Brasilis Iberum
|
Posted - 2004.11.17 11:26:00 -
[113]
Hi Hardin,
Nice to communicate with you again.
Really nice guide you have here.
Would you give me permission to translate your manual into Portuguese? Credits will remain the same: Hardin as author and inspiring guru .
Tell me what you think please?
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
First twice: First in Latin America, first in Portuguese. |
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.11.18 17:57:00 -
[114]
Sure NP
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.11.18 17:57:00 -
[115]
Sure NP
|
Brasilis Iberum
|
Posted - 2004.11.19 12:32:00 -
[116]
Thanks!
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
First twice: First in Latin America, first in Portuguese. |
Brasilis Iberum
|
Posted - 2004.11.19 12:32:00 -
[117]
Thanks!
Brasilis Iberum
Eve-Brasil.net
First twice: First in Latin America, first in Portuguese. |
Johnson
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 17:40:00 -
[118]
awesome! thanks
|
Johnson
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 17:40:00 -
[119]
awesome! thanks
|
Viglen
|
Posted - 2004.12.25 19:04:00 -
[120]
Heh, i've got even attributes, well pretty much, when all normal learning skills were on lvl5 and advanced on lvl4 I had attributes as follows: 22 22 22 22 20
I only needed to train eidedic memory to lvl5 to get an allaround 22 on all attributes
was nice to see the other catagory's jump from an expected 21 to 22
great work on that guide, but I have to admit that I like even attributes
|
Viglen
|
Posted - 2004.12.25 19:04:00 -
[121]
Heh, i've got even attributes, well pretty much, when all normal learning skills were on lvl5 and advanced on lvl4 I had attributes as follows: 22 22 22 22 20
I only needed to train eidedic memory to lvl5 to get an allaround 22 on all attributes
was nice to see the other catagory's jump from an expected 21 to 22
great work on that guide, but I have to admit that I like even attributes
|
Morlach
|
Posted - 2004.12.29 10:35:00 -
[122]
thanks for this guide, from a 2 day old noob
~~~
Just another guy in space.
Right on commander! |
Morlach
|
Posted - 2004.12.29 10:35:00 -
[123]
thanks for this guide, from a 2 day old noob
~~~
Just another guy in space.
Right on commander! |
Daronir
|
Posted - 2005.02.05 17:43:00 -
[124]
This very definitely needs to be updated, especially regarding the discussion of the worthiness of training the basic learning skills to lvl 5 (which, ever since the adv learnings came out is a definite YES to training them to 5 ).
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Doja Schmoke
|
Posted - 2005.02.08 00:10:00 -
[125]
::Bows to Hardin::
well done.
someone should put the word doc of this back up
thank you for the knowledge.
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2005.02.08 18:51:00 -
[126]
I have finally got round to updating this with more recent information - including the advanced learning skills.
As it is very long and I dont want to repost it all in it entirety I have put it online as a document.
You can view it HERE
I hope people find it helpful...
|
NofoMoss
|
Posted - 2005.02.11 10:25:00 -
[127]
Edited by: NofoMoss on 12/02/2005 16:56:05
Edited by: NofoMoss on 11/02/2005 10:54:11
Edited by: NofoMoss on 11/02/2005 10:50:58
Edited by: NofoMoss on 11/02/2005 10:26:12
ok i not read all this but i did check out form order you have not best way do it this what you list
Instant Recall - Level 1
Analytical Mind - Level 1
Learning - Level 1
Instant Recall - Level 2
Analytical Mind - Level 2
Learning - Level 2
Instant Recall - Level 3
Analytical Mind - Level 3
Learning - Level 3
Instant Recall - Level 3
Analytical Mind - Level 3
Learning - Level 3
Instant Recall - Level 4
Analytical Mind - Level 4
Learning - Level 4
Instant Recall - Level 5
Analytical Mind - Level 5
Eidetic Memory - Level 1
Logic - Level 1
Eidetic Memory - Level 2
Logic - Level 2
Eidetic Memory - Level 3
Logic - Level 3
Eidetic Memory - Level 4
Logic - Level 4
Learning - Level 5
for ever one piont you get you learn a skill faster right? so if this is true and we all know it is. then this be best order tolearn our skill as fast as you can not what was in this post
Instant Recall - Level 1
Analytical Mind - Level 1
Learning - Level 1
Instant Recall - Level 2
Analytical Mind - Level 2
Learning - Level 2
Instant Recall - Level 3
Analytical Mind - Level 3
Learning - Level 3
Instant Recall - Level 4
Analytical Mind - Level 4
Learning - Level 4
Instant Recall - Level 5
Eidetic Memory - Level 1
Eidetic Memory - Level 2
Eidetic Memory - Level 3
Eidetic Memory - Level 4
Analytical Mind - Level 5
Logic - Level 1
Logic - Level 2
Logic - Level 3
Logic - Level 4
Learning - Level 5
then if you like eidetic memory 5 or logic 5 then get last one.
then train up other learn skill in what ever order you like.
but you what get ever piont you can get as fast as you can no reason do level 5 basic then a level 5 basic with both cost 265000 piont when you get first 265000 and then get next skill cost you 750 piont? now is that not get piont faster then get next still less then that 26500
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warpag0n
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Posted - 2005.02.18 14:43:00 -
[128]
.
Doing battle with a large army is like doing battle with a small army. http://www.psi.de.ms/
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DH Alpha21
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Posted - 2005.03.26 16:26:00 -
[129]
As a new player to the game i have had a quick scan through and this will definately help me, just posted to say thanks for the info
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DH Alpha21
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Posted - 2005.03.26 16:27:00 -
[130]
As a new player to the game i have had a quick scan through and this will definately help me, just posted to say thanks for the info
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Tristan Hellbringer
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Posted - 2005.05.14 11:03:00 -
[131]
thanks for such a good guide and helpful hints from other players
//crunatus.net__ |
Feyd Y'eldi
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Posted - 2005.05.19 14:35:00 -
[132]
Nice guide, found it really helpful.
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Murkelost
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Posted - 2005.06.20 14:55:00 -
[133]
Man, Im so happy, Now I dont have to be a noob anymore
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Namo Iluvatar
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Posted - 2005.06.21 19:37:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Namo Iluvatar on 21/06/2005 19:44:34
Ok,
IÆve read it all and IÆve read similar posts suggesting the orders seen here. At first look their logic seems reasonable, however, something in the back of my mind was saying it was wrong. IÆve been playing the game for nearly a month now and I wish I had know earlier what I know now. I wrote a rather lengthy chunk of code in a program to crunch out the best order to learn these skills. While at first the list looks very much like the original recommendationà it deviates about half way though.
Instant Recall û 1
Analytical Mind û 1
Learning û 1
Instant Recall û 2
Analytical Mind û 2
Learning û 2
Instant Recall û 3
Analytical Mind û 3
Learning û 3
Instant Recall û 4
Analytical Mind - 4,
Learning û 4
Instant Recall û 5
Eidetic Memory û 1
Eidetic Memory û 2
Eidetic Memory û 3
Eidetic Memory û 4
Analytical Mind û 5
Logic û 1
Logic û 2
Logic û 3
Logic û 4
Learning û 5
Eidetic Memory û 5
Logic - 5,
Incidentally, my list only confirmed what NofoMoss had already posted ... Only I didnÆt see his post till after I had already made the program. that would have saved me some time.
This seems like an odd order to learn them in at first. However, for all of these skills the formula on how much time it will take to learn is this:
Time = Skill Points Needed To Next Level / [(Base Memory + Analytical Mind Level + Eidetic Memory Level + Implant Bonus + 0.5 * (Base Intelligence + Instant Recall Level + Logic Level + Intelligence Implant Bonus)) * (1 + Learning Skill Level * 0.02)]
Given thatà the memory skill holds the largest sway over how much time it takes, intelligence holds the second largest sway and learning is last. The next trick to the order is in the fact that once you learn Instant Recall to level 5, it takes much less time to learn Eidetic Memory to levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 than it does to learn Analytical Mind to level 5. And, it also provides a larger bonus to your Skill Points Per Minute (SPPM). Once you are at Analytical Mind level 5, learning Logic up to level 4 takes less time and provides more benefit to your SPPM than would be raising the skill Learning up to level 5.
I realize that people will be training other skills in the mean time, thatÆs fine. But when it comes to the order in which to train these 5 skillsà this is the fastest order to do it in.
IÆll try to post the program I made to calculate this in the future for anyoneÆs interested in the math behind it.
Hopefully this is helpful to those who take the time to read it.
*** All skill is in vain when an angel spits in the flintlock of your musket. *** |
Lathomine
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Posted - 2005.07.11 16:58:00 -
[135]
DAMN!!! this is really well done man, cheers for that info!
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Jnr Rau
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Posted - 2005.07.28 06:01:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Jnr Rau on 28/07/2005 06:05:39
Edited by: Jnr Rau on 28/07/2005 06:03:41
Edited by: Jnr Rau on 28/07/2005 06:01:19
Guys for all your new players.. here is what my alt did....
Ii followed this to the letter.. well almost...
1month 9days later 1.9mil sp and climbing really quick...
Int 26
Mem 24
Charisma 8
Perc 19
Will 18
Base Skills:
Int 12
Mem 10
Charisma 6
Perc 6
Will 5
All to advanced learning lvl 4 and lvl 2 for empathy I think... the basic charisma as the advanced willpower needed some charisma.. so a couple of levels there helped a little.
I highly recommend this path... but you need an alt to sustain your love of the game... This character was used for about 20 days.. got enough splattering of skills to make the game interesting and then bam.. started the alt guy out on his path to learning... he won't be a miner/researcher... he will be a fighter predominantly..though the perc/will are down a little its not that big of a worry as looking at the types of skills going round for what I want to do... Int in particular takes the cake..
But at 4days 14hours to complete a rank 1 Int/mem skill from level 1-5 its well worth it.. fair enough it takes him a little longer to train the gunnery and ship skills... but electronics,mechanics,engineering stuff just fly's by...
If you have the money, +3 implants, determination and the alt to keep you going... then I highly recommend it... I've recommended this to a few corp mates who are doing the same and well they went off and started their flying and fighting skills... only to realise the error of their ways... :P Subsequently they have stopped and started down the path of learning... You need cybernetics to do the implants so I started with a character that had this skill already...
Get the EMD and the character picker program mentioned in one of these learning threads and choose a character that is to your liking... it took me about an hour of going through all the options to settle on this guy...
Good luck
If you think I can be of any help evemail or chat me ingame.
Jnr.
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Skie Inurian
|
Posted - 2005.08.05 09:13:00 -
[137]
So, What Race to choose?
Well based on the suggested importance of the attributes towards skill development, the races are ranked as such:
RaceSubClan
1GallenteIntakiReborn
2CaldariDeteisMerchandisers
3AmarrAmarrWealthy Commoners
4CaldariDeteisScientists
5MinmatarSebiestorTinkerers
6CaldariCivireEntrepeneurs
7AmarrAmarrReligious Reclaimers
8MinmatarBrutorWorkers
9CaldariDeteisTube Child
10GallenteGallenteMiners
11MinmatarSebiestorRebels
12GallenteIntakiArtists
13AmarrAmarrLiberal Holders
14AmarrNiKunniBorder Runners
15GallenteIntakiDiplomats
16AmarrNiKunniNavy Veterans
17CaldariCivireMercs
18MinmatarBrutorSlave Child
19GallenteGallenteImmigrants
20MinmatarSebiestorTraders
21CaldariCivireDissenters
22MinmatarBrutorTribal Traditionalists
23AmarrNiKunniFree Merchants
24GallenteGallenteActivists
This is based on weighting each attribute for relative importance. I used 1.3 for mem, 1.2 for int, 1.1 per, 1.0 for will and 0.8 for charisma. Races higher up the charts have "better" starting attributes than those lower down, though all start with 34 points, + 5 more in character development.
As always, choose the character you want to play! |
Toman'Torax
|
Posted - 2005.08.15 17:22:00 -
[138]
Anyone know if 2 or 3 attribute points is a big difference overall? I've been working on a secondary character for mining but the attributes i've got don't seem to be what i wanted:
int: 20
per: 19
cha: 17
wil: 17
mem: 17
For mining I would have needed more memory but as you can see perception, which i don't need, has passed memory. So do 2 or 3 points make that much of a difference when doing my stuff?
|
Papa Rau
|
Posted - 2005.08.16 05:06:00 -
[139]
It can chop days off a lvl 5 training time from what I've seen...
Int is a big thing, mem if your mining might be next on your hit list... but due to it being secondary the extra levels of int over mem is better for training times.
2-3 point on your primary training atribute can make the world of difference.
Papa
If in doubt shout... |
Gretchen Dawntreader
|
Posted - 2005.08.24 11:40:00 -
[140]
about the only place I would differ from the guide would be in the progression to most efficiently get memory, intelligence and learning maxed.
Memory is prime stat on all learning tree skills (pretty sure) so I can see the logic of going the rounds of Instant Recall-->Analytical Mind-->Learning until they are all to 4. Then on advice of my starter corp oldsters, took Instant Recall to 5, got Eidetic Memory, will take it to 4, then do Analytical Mind to 5 and Logic to 4, then Eidetic/Logic/Learning all to 5.
I think the idea is that since memory is prime stat for all of these, once you can get into Eidetic Memory, then you can skill that to 4 pretty fast, and the higher memory will help the other two more than taking each one step up at a time at that point.
Having just read the sticky post on how learning and skills work mathematically and being as I have to go to work in a few, I haven't actually crunched the numbers to see which way finishes first.
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Hari Seldom
|
Posted - 2005.09.06 19:51:00 -
[141]
All of Hardin's links come back Page Not Found. 
|
Thomus
|
Posted - 2005.09.08 12:23:00 -
[142]
same for me - none of them work
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Pyderi
|
Posted - 2005.09.11 14:33:00 -
[143]
Anyone know of a working link to the guide?
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Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 01:48:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Skie Inurian
So, What Race to choose?
Well based on the suggested importance of the attributes towards skill development, the races are ranked as such:
RaceSubClan
1GallenteIntakiReborn
How interesting. That's what I am.
---
|
Mr Chumley
|
Posted - 2005.09.21 13:15:00 -
[145]
This is useless without the link Please fix the link or remove it as a sticky.
-----
Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be |
sdfsdfsdfsf
|
Posted - 2005.09.25 12:00:00 -
[146]
has anyone got a link to this that does work? I'm very interested in reading it but like eveyone else can't find a working link.
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.09.29 05:16:00 -
[147]
I don't know if there's a newer version of Hardin's wonderful Skill Guide, but Lachenlaud's EVE Master Datasheet [EMD] contains a version of Hardin's Skill Guide from a while back.
Check out this thread:
EVE MASTER DATASHEET [EMD]Skill Tracking Spreadsheet - COLD WAR UPDATE
---
|
Max Tesla
|
Posted - 2005.10.03 03:23:00 -
[148]
The links on the first page dont work :(
|
Grizzo Zarr
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 14:39:00 -
[149]
I found this in a different gaming forum. Not sure if it's the same skill path info Hardin originally posted, but it looks like it might be because it's very similar to what's in the skills spreadsheet (the other sticky in this forum), but it has the Tier 2 skills in it:
Instant Recall I
Analytical Mind I
Learning I
Instant Recall II
Analytical Mind II
Learning II
Instant Recall III
Analytical Mind III
Learning III
Instant Recall IV
Analytical Mind IV
Learning IV
Instant Recall V
Eidetic Memory I
Eidetic Memory II
Eidetic Memory III
Eidetic Memory IV
Analytical Mind V
Logic I
Logic II
Logic III
Logic IV
Learning V
Iron Will I
Iron Will II
Iron Will III
Iron Will IV
Iron Will V
Spatial Awareness I
Spatial Awareness II
Spatial Awareness III
Spatial Awareness IV
Spatial Awareness V
Empathy I
Empathy II
Empathy III
Empathy IV
Focus I
Focus II
Focus III
Focus IV
Clarity I
Clarity II
Clarity III
Clarity IV
(end of list)
|
ozzmo
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 15:35:00 -
[150]
Please..Please...Please...Fix the link...seems like great information but all links broken..
|
V1olaToR
|
Posted - 2005.10.25 05:01:00 -
[151]
aww, i was lokking forword to this one
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Coolhawk deWulf
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 09:10:00 -
[152]
Hi there,
i am also new here, all people sad, the guide was great, but all links are broken?
Hardin, u can read this? Or any other have make a "copy" to read offline?
It would be nice, if any can help that a noob can read this guide..
Thanks in advance
Cooli
|
lazzors
|
Posted - 2005.10.27 11:11:00 -
[153]
why is this a sticker when none of the links dont work ?
|
oni ix
|
Posted - 2005.11.01 20:57:00 -
[154]
links all broken for me
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 03:52:00 -
[155]
Well, I'm considering rewriting a new, improved version of Hardin's skill guide. It's a LOT of work, but I could always use another sticky to my name.
I messaged Hardin in-game about a week or two ago and have gotten no response. I believe he is inactive now. I'll take it upon myself to get a new post up and running for this.
ISD, prepare your stickies.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 04:10:00 -
[156]
Not sure what I've gotten myself into here.
Hardin's guide was about 6 pages long in Word.
This make take a few days.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.02 06:04:00 -
[157]
New post is up. Check it out.
Attributes & Skills - The New Guide
ISD, you should unstick this thread and sticky the new one.
Hope y'all find all this info helpful!
---
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 02:08:00 -
[158]
Thanks Tripoli for rescuing this.
I forgot that when I cancelled my webhosting that one of the thing it hosted was this guide.
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2005.11.08 02:10:00 -
[159]
Well there you are. Was starting to think you were gone entirely.
Hope you like the new rendition. I've still got more plans for it.
---
|
Illian Deinar
Amarr
Manu Dei
Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 14:58:00 -
[160]
where all this info went?
links seemed all dead to me.
Seminarium applications open
|
Tripoli
XenTech
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:46:00 -
[161]
This is a very, very old thread. A new version of this guide is stickied at the top of this forum.
---
340 of 351 skills trained. |
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