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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.08 10:30:00 -
[61]
Drake is borked. It has an insane tank but silly damage. It doesn't fit into the Cadldari ship scheme at all. The passive shield tanking is being fixed but GIVE IT ANOTHER LAUNCHER damnit!
Merlin (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Kestrel (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Moa (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Caracal (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Ferox (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Drake (missiles) : POOR gank but GOOD tank
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Jaedar Metron
I G N O T U S
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:15:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Drake is borked. It has an insane tank but silly damage. It doesn't fit into the Cadldari ship scheme at all. The passive shield tanking is being fixed but GIVE IT ANOTHER LAUNCHER damnit!
Merlin (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Kestrel (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Moa (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Caracal (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Ferox (rails) : poor gank but good tank
Drake (missiles) : POOR gank but GOOD tank
Actually all Caldari missile ships Except the Kestrel suck in both Tank and DPS... Fought a corpmates vexor yesterday with my tank fitted Caracal. He outtanked me while outgunning me horribly  I could break him when he finally capped out, but then my tank was long gone, and he hadnt even started on his boosters
I know, I fail at photoshopping :P |
Athyrial
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:25:00 -
[63]
Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get 
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake 
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Khali Nephtys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:01:00 -
[64]
I've just returned to eve after a 2 year break, and the drake was one of the first ships I bought as it looked like a very nice little missile boat for the isk. I've grown to love this ship even over my raven, which to be honest I barely have the skillpoints to fly. I see the drake as a sort of 'pocket battleship', it's got great survivability and a reasonable amount of damage output.
I have never been fond of maths, so all the number crunching that goes on with setups just goes over my head. I fit things that seem like a good idea and see how they work in practice, but even I could see the nerf bat hanging over my little ship like the sword of damocles, though I didn't really understand all the numerical gibberish.
It's a shame if it gets nerfed to useless as I have grown very fond of this ship, hopefully it will get some love in other areas like giving it back the eight launchers it obviously was designed to have. The wildly swinging nerf bat and the pendulum of balancing issues was what frustrated me 2 years ago, I am hoping that CCP have learned a little in that time, and might walk the path of moderation now, so that people like myself who like to stick with a ship for a while might sleep easy knowing they won't go to bed with a decent ship docked in their hangar, and wake up to find it shockingly unable to perform the same tasks it did the previous day with ease.
Anyway in conclusion a toast, to the drake, a fine ship and may it continue to be so!
Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:01:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 08/06/2007 13:02:08
Originally by: Athyrial
Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake
I fly an active tanked HAM drake - which IMO is the only viable choice for roaming pvp - but the range is pathetic (10-12km!) for a ship which lacks agility as it means is has to get into web range do decent damage. A simple range bonus would solve this problem. I really don't know what CCP was thinking with HAMs - the only Caldari ships they are useful on are the cara/cerb and the boa/beagle.
EDIT: Raven > Drake
Effective variable damage and increased missile dps ftw!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mortecai
oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Well how about NOS and Sensor dampeners bite it first, easy mode playstyle ? Maybe you've never flown Gallente in PvP then, to feel the true meaning of easy mode in EvE..
if you are honest with yourself instead of blabbing around, you'd admit that NOS and Dampeners are much much more overpowered than passive tanks are. As a matter of fact, you are nerfing THE ONLY counter to NOS that people have found.
so you cry me a river and start to think for once!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kiyano
They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: d026
Galente ships are fine.. But i also dont see why u have no nerf the drake. Drake sucks allready:)
I agree with the second part more than with the first, anyone who have flown a drake knows that you have to fit a 2 DMG/ROF rigs to be somwehat effective in it's damage output.. otherwise it's a joke..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:57:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 07/06/2007 11:14:01
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai
oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
As soon as my drones can 1 hit each of your missle launchers in turn, you can have your way...
If you fly a drone boat then you'll know the risks, not only in people attacking your drones but in having to warp and losing them that way.
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Did I just hear you complain about your drones being vulnerable to misiles?
Well gee, lets give your ships enough cargo and ability ot use 10 fighters then, maybe it will make you happy.
Your comment doesn't benefit anyone but yourself.. grow out of it...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:59:00 -
[70]
Originally by: RogueWing
As a Drake pilot, I endorse the coming "nerf" to the T1 BC's....but I do not like the fact that they are nerfing the Command Ships as well....those should have been left alone...
you mean as an alt pilot that has no idea what hes' talking about.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:02:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Katana Sengoku
I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
I don't feel it needs any nerf... neither does the passive tanking for that matter. Well skilled smaller ships should be able to sustain battles with larger ships. I've seen punishers take out caracals... should we nerf something there?
Really? and you would know how? Puh lease come fight my Raven in your drake or even my myrmidon with my underdeveloped Gallente related skills.. please..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Noluck Ned
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
I Dont see it happening but it makes me drool just thinking of it.
The passive tank had it good for a long time, besides the drake there are other ships such as the Vulture and Nighthawk of course which, when set up properly are pretty much unbreakable 1v1.
ubreakable 1v1? .. as are all the other race's command ships.. 'good' point
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Katana Sengoku
I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
AFAIK, they were meant to be cruiser killers, as destroyers were meant to be frigate killers.
The fact that they can tank damage-fitted battleships means something is wrong.
Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai
oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
As long as Gallente 'drone' boats get overloaded after using NOS for 10sec. then explode, sure, you can shoot at my launchers...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ironnight
You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
If you want to nerf something, nerf NOS and Sensor dampeners, give them the same crappy chance to hit as ECM. And the dual armor reps, you know stuff I havent trained 
Exactly.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:11:00 -
[76]
Yeah CCP, thanks for F-ing up the only thing that made the Drake a viable option, now i guess back to Gallente skill training.. again THANK YOU!..
:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:13:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Drachenlord
Originally by: Ironnight
You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
News Flash, they were never meant to be able to tank BS dmg... especially from T2 fitted BSes....
Newsflash, keep your selfish pro-amarr comments to yourself cause you certainly aren't helping..
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Ironnight
Caldari
x13
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:14:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano
They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Dont diss it till you try it, it is sick, I allmost made a 30 mil Machariel pilot cry with it.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai
oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
Sure, if our launchers never run out of ammo, don't stop working when we get ECM'd and have the ability to repair armour & shields or give EW effects.
You have friend or foe missiles, you have to carry multiple flights and cant do all the Ewar at the same time, but sure if we can change their damage types on the fly
Oh but I guess you forget drones, which ARE all damage types.. with your VASSSSTTTT drone bay you can fit quite the variety.. oh but then you wont' be able to fit all T2 Large ones.. right, sorry there.. :PPPP
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Frug
I can't believe the number of newbies posting here who think:
a) A BC should be able to tank a BS. Like BC's are some kind of counter to BS's. Where the hell did you get that idea?
b) You can't do anything with the drake once its passive tank is nerfed a bit.
c) Caldari have no good pvp ships at all. Like the drake was the only one you could use. So fly another race if you can't use them.
They're nerfing that insane passive tank because it's simply too good. I don't think they accounted for what rigs can do when they made the ship. Being able to out tank even battleships -without- needing cap? Honestly guys, wtf do you expect.
What can i say Frug, I guess you have never flown a fully equipped Myrmidon or maybe met one in the hands of a good pilot, that NOS with it's quite decent tank will very well tank and probably kill yuor raven if you ofc fly one.. as you say.. since Caldari have so many PvP ships.. i just can't choose.. that's why i'm doing gallente now..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:20:00 -
[82]
Originally by: krilliante
I am posting this just in case any devs read these forums....
News Flash ... all the Drake has is its decent passive tanks, dps sucks, moves like a 30 ton truck with a 5hp motor...slow....god its slow
why take away the only thing its decent at?
Maybe cause some leet PVPer cant kill it in 10secs...even though the drake cant hurt it, cause with a 13 slot passive tank dps is just horrible?
Jeez....
What the man said!
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Nyabi
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:21:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano
They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Nub
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Haradgrim
a) a BC shouldnt be able to "tank" a BS, it should however, be able to survive against one
b) its not that a Drake won't be able to do "anything", its just that the Ferox and Drake will be the laughing-stock of the BC world, why would anyone starting a char now choose Caldari?
c) its not that there are no good cladari PVP ships, its just that they are only effective with gimmicky tricks, there are no straight OMGWTFPWNBBQ mobiles like every other race has (although amarr need some serious lovin).
a) You've lost me dude. It shouldn't be able to tank, but it should be able to survive... By... not tanking... and... not out damaging... what? No. If you're butting heads with a BS in a BC you should probably die unless you really know what you're doing. If you can't do it in a drake, the solution is simple. Don't.
b) The drake will still be amazing at missions even with the nerf. In pvp I promise you'll see them. They don't need this ******** tank to be able to fight. People will fit them with assault missiles and active tank and smush the right targets. If you can't, don't.
c) Yeah. Why would people take caldari? The most populous race in eve. The only reason people use caldari now is because of drakes, and now with the nerf, nobody will take caldari. Caldari are just so awful. I don't know how I manage.
I will grant one thing. Ferox's are sad.
Oh thank you for your explanations Frug, now maybe we can all suggest for CCP to put next to or announce Caldari as the PvE race and get it over with.. too bad it wasn't like this 2 yrs ago when i started... would you give it ... that ?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Akita T
I mean, COME ON, it's the only BC with LESS powergrid (-15%) as its tier 1 counterpart, and does not get any significant amount of tf extra to compensate...
That's because its counterpart is a rail platform. The rails take a lot more grid than launchers.
Regardless Fruggie, i need this ship to perform, it's using misiles, so what? It cannot perform now ? good for PVE.. sure it is granted.. I am a Caldari pilot and would like to have a chance in PvP WITH Caldari ships.. this chance goes away with each "update" on the Caldari ships... funny, huh...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:27:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
im curious, i fly a drake on an alt, and i like the ship alot, i see all of you complaining about the dps, and you all are talking about the shield capabilities of your ship. how many of you actually have pimp missle skills? tech II assualt, or even just plain heavies hurt like hell with enough back up missle skills, im wondering if some (not all mind you) of you dont need to address your missle skills a bit to increase your dps, rof, n range. And i do agree that its a load of crap that a BC should be able to solo fight with a BS...i mean seriously, its a battleship, the supposed king of the seas, can we let it have its throne for once?
Thank you for your insight Grath, i DO have all of the at lvl 5 mind you and still am QUITE lacking on Damage in comparison to say Gallente and Minmatar ships of same class from pilots with comparable ships, and as me tweaked for damage..
quite sad isn't it?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:30:00 -
[87]
Originally by: SARPIDON
After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down.
I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be -
Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
until it gets nerfed too buddy.. i just have that feeling.. don't know, maybe we should start a thread or a poll to bet which is the next Caldari ship to be nerfed. First it was misiles in general, then torps, then ECM, now Tank, it's getting better and better.. I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:34:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 08/06/2007 13:02:08
Originally by: Athyrial
Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake
I fly an active tanked HAM drake - which IMO is the only viable choice for roaming pvp - but the range is pathetic (10-12km!) for a ship which lacks agility as it means is has to get into web range do decent damage. A simple range bonus would solve this problem. I really don't know what CCP was thinking with HAMs - the only Caldari ships they are useful on are the cara/cerb and the boa/beagle.
EDIT: Raven > Drake
Effective variable damage and increased missile dps ftw!
Yep, now imagine being sensor dampened in your HAM drake.. uh hum.. veeerry useful in PvP i tell you...
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:35:00 -
[89]
Why oh why can a ship that dedicates all it's Mid and Low slots to tanking have such a great tank?!
Nerf!
Boohoo it can out-tank my ship, even though I only use 3 low slots for tanking!
;_;
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:36:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
exactly.. I don't see people screaming nerf the Myrmidon tho.. huh wonder why, must be their love for NOS+drone combo "Easy Mode" that does it.. ah yes, it's not Caldari too, so it can't be nerfed.. much less the godly Gallente..
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