EVE Search - will i go faster with all learning skills at 5

All Channels

Skill Discussions

will i go faster with all learning skills at 5

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Saphiron	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:59:00 - [1]
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:13:00 - [2] I don't know wether or not there will be a skill that affect walking when "Walking In stations" gets introduced, but I'm almost certain that training the learning skills will not make you 'go' faster. Resistance is Fertile.
Dominatis Sarum	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:16:00 - [3] If you are talking about speed... no navigation = speed if you are talking about training time... yes
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Saphiron He looks for things. Things that make him go.
Kavol Valarius Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.08 23:46:00 - [5] This thread made my day. ------
VD ThatsNotRight	Posted - 2007.06.09 02:08:00 - [6] no need to take the pi**.he is obviously new,and not quite sure how the eve universe works. Shame on you all, i bet most of you were either ignorant for a long time,or asked very similar questions at some point! (and yer,English probably isn't his primary language,id like to see the average man string a sentence together in dutch and be so smarmy)
Selena Dimeling Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.09 07:45:00 - [7] Edited by: Selena Dimeling on 09/06/2007 07:44:25 In counter point to the a** hattery, I'll post seriously: Learning skills do pay off. Assuming that any given attribute is at 10, maxed learning skills would more than double your training speed. [10 from stats, 10 from specific learning skills, and 2 (10%) from maxed Learning] However, for you to actually surpass someone without them would take years. (I think 5-4 skills were estimated at 3 years.) Still, if you plan to stick with it, they're a good investment, especially since the level to start working on the advanced has been reduced to basic 4. ____________________ Skill Showroom
Fischig	Posted - 2007.06.09 13:40:00 - [8] Anyone correct me if my maths or understanding is ****e here. Training all learning skills (including the advanced ones) to 4 doesn't take that long and pays itself off pretty quickly. Training the basic ones from 4-5 takes a while to pay off, and training the advanced ones from 4-5 takes more than a couple of years before you start gaining "profit" from them as its been said before. Lets say your memory and int skills (the ones used when training learning skills) are both 19 (pretty average values for a newish char) and your training basic perception from 4-5, (requires 210,745 SP) it would take you around 5 days 8 hours. If you now begin training skills using perception, you are getting 1 extra SP per minute. Every skillpoint you spend training the learning skill must be "paid off" before you start gaining "profit" from it, i.e. gaining extra skillpoints you wouldn't have done if you hadn't trained the skill. Calculating this I get just over 146 days before the skill pays for itself and gives you "profit". So, training a basic learning skill from 4-5 takes just over 5 months before you get the real benefit from it. This is based on the assumption all of those 5 months your spending training a skills that have the attribute you traing as its primary attribute. (this is quite likely with perception since its used such a lot, not so much with others though). Shoot me if i'm wrong but thats the way I worked it out anyway.
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2007.06.09 14:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus Originally by: Saphiron He looks for things. Things that make him go. Huh? a new race, the Pakled, on Eve?
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.10 22:41:00 - [10] We are far from home. Make us strong.
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.10 23:20:00 - [11] What Fischig said is basically correct. Rule of thumb is: Train basic 4 advanced 4 on any char you intend to play for any length of time. No need to do it all in one go, train learning and also train skills that make the game more enjoyable, unless you are a very very patient person. Train basic 5 andvanced 4 if you are sure you will play the game for a long time. Trainbvoth to 5 if you are 100% sure, without the shadow of a doubt, that you will still be playing EvE in 3-4 years.
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.11 01:46:00 - [12] More like 4-5 years for getting a real benefit from advanced 5. The way the game is going, I just wouldn't bet that any given person is going to be interested in it 4-5 years from now. Basic 5, Advanced 4. If you plan to be in the game 3+ years, you could probably justify Clarity 5 and maybe one other stat based on what you want to train (Focus or Logic) I won't be training it though...
Random Incarnate	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:34:00 - [13] I'd suggest using EvEMon to work that out. Training a couple of learning skills up to 4 (with its suggestions) has reduced overall training time from about 100 days to 70. Doesn't take long for the learning skills to pay off at all.
Elhina Novae Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.11 20:35:00 - [14] Imo. Learning to level 5. Basic learning skills ( rank 1 ) to level 5. Advanced learning skills ( rank 3 ) to level 4. I heard to level 5 in advanced skills will take like 3,8 years in avarage to pay off. So maybe it's worth it once you have +5 implants and can train it faster... Somebody set up us the bomb
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.12 02:14:00 - [15] Having +5, +10, or whatever implants won't help much in terms of making Advanced 5 more "worth it." You will be able to train them faster, yes. However, they will have less of a % benefit for your stats. So it's a balancing effect that makes the payoff time pretty consistent, regardless of stats.
Angus McDorble Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.12 04:33:00 - [16] He makes us strong. He makes the ship go. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory. Oh snap, I gots censored!
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.12 06:28:00 - [17] ôI heard to level 5 in advanced skills will take like 3,8 years in avarage to pay off.ö ItÆs no where near that long. The problem is most people assume you can train a skill instead of adv5. But if you train a skill that comes out after you got adv5 then payoff is drastically shorter. Payoff is the point when you have more useful skills points with adv5 then without adv5. ThatÆs not a set number/amount of time its diffrent for eveyone. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Klebzellok	Posted - 2007.06.12 11:46:00 - [18] Its notthat hard to calculate, is it? I mean, you get 1SP every minute from the primary stat. Say you train Clarity from 4->5, thats a 407295sp increment if Im not terribly mistaken. To catch up those skilpoints you would have to train any skill with perception as primary for that amount of minutes, thats 282 days. Longer if you mix in skills with it as secondary. So if you're planning to train spaceship command, gunnery or whatever has perception as primary, for more than 282 days you train Clarity to 5. If not then you stay at 4. Same goes for every other learning skill. No?
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:18:00 - [19] Edited by: Pottsey on 12/06/2007 12:18:16 ôI mean, you get 1SP every minute from the primary stat. Say you train Clarity from 4->5, thats a 407295sp increment if Im not terribly mistaken. To catch up those skilpoints you would have to train any skill with perception as primary for that amount of minutes, thats 282 days. Longer if you mix in skills with it as secondary.ö Except for thatÆs wrong for some people itÆs the adv4 person whoÆs playing catch-up not adv5 and the adv4 person is falling further and further behind. You cannot always train another skill instead of adv5. For example gang assist I couldnÆt train it before I got adv5 so there was no catch-up. With my example 1 day after getting adv5 I am ahead with more useful skill points with adv5 over having adv4. Not 282 days. 100days into training and I am days ahead of adv4. Not 282days. ôwhatever has perception as primary, for more than 282 days you train Clarity to 5. If not then you stay at 4. Same goes for every other learning skill. No?ö I donÆt agree. Say you want to become a capital ship pilot but you donÆt have the isk to buy the capital ship skills. It makes more sense to train adv5 earn isk then buy all the capital skills and then train those cap skills. The second you start training those capital skills your ahead over where you would be if you had adv4. It doesnÆt take 282days for payoff as you couldnÆt have spent time training those skills instead of adv5. Another example I have adv5 now. When Rev 2 hits a bunch of new skills com out I get them and train them faster then adv4 people pulling me head even more. If your not going train new skills stick to adv4, if you train lots of new skills get adv5. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Klebzellok	Posted - 2007.06.12 12:52:00 - [20] Edited by: Klebzellok on 12/06/2007 13:03:31 Originally by: Pottsey You cannot always train another skill instead of adv5. No skill requires adv5, so assuming you have maxed everything else that might be usefull, you're right. Quote: I donÆt agree. Say you want to become a capital ship pilot but you donÆt have the isk to buy the capital ship skills. Again, you assume you've maxed everything else, or you find cap ship skills to be so much important than everything else you can train that spending two weeks to save a couple of hours before stepping into a carrier to be worth it, then you're right. Going into cap ships will probably keep you occupied for long enough to catch up with the numbers anyway. Not saying your statement is false, but I would think it's not something the average, or even well above average, pilot will have deal with. And if you've maxed so many skills that there's nothing else usefull to train, then I dare say you should have trained adv5 a lot sooner ;)
Chelone	Posted - 2007.06.12 17:43:00 - [21] Pottsey is a devoted member of the religion of Advanced 5, and nothing you do or say will alter her unshakable faith.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.12 20:03:00 - [22] Apparently up to and including the use of some incredibly faulty logic to justify advanced 5s.
Pottsey's Clone	Posted - 2007.06.12 20:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Pottsey''s Clone on 12/06/2007 20:33:16 Its not faulty logic those of you who say adv5 isnÆt worth it are misleading people. With adv5 it took me 179days to learn gang assist. With adv 4 it would have taken 188days. So after 179days I was 9 days ahead in useful skillpoints due to adv5. Many of you said catchup/time for it to be worthwhile is 3years+. HereÆs one of many examples where its way under 1 year and itÆs the adv4 playing catchup not adv5. Yet you lot all say donÆt train adv5 as it slows you down as payoff is over 1 year e.c.t. There are times when adv5 doesnÆt slow you down like above where I couldnÆt train gang assist before getting adv5. I am not saying everyone should get adv5 its clearly not best option for everyone but its far more useful then many make it out to be. Haveing adv5 can give you more usefull skillpoints then adv4.
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes	Posted - 2007.06.12 21:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Fischig If you now begin training skills using perception, you are getting 1 extra SP per minute. 1 - 1.1 SPs more per min depending on the base learning skill but im not one to split hairs :) in regards to the whole lvl 5 thing Pottsey, Tripoli myself and many others are probably at around 60%+ of the 3.4(i think) years payback time say what you want about the crazyness of having trained the advanced skills to 5 the economic benefit of having trained them is closing in nevermind the other less tangiable psychological benefits that pottsey often goes to great length to include in these discussions. tho i must admit its taken me till not long ago for learning to slip from my 3rd to my 4th largest skills categort Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
Klebzellok	Posted - 2007.06.12 22:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Pottsey's Clone Edited by: Pottsey''s Clone on 12/06/2007 20:33:16 Its not faulty logic those of you who say adv5 isnÆt worth it are misleading people. With adv5 it took me 179days to learn gang assist. With adv 4 it would have taken 188days. So after 179days I was 9 days ahead in useful skillpoints due to adv5. Many of you said catchup/time for it to be worthwhile is 3years+. HereÆs one of many examples where its way under 1 year and itÆs the adv4 playing catchup not adv5. It is faulty logic because you assume adv5 is the only thing you will benefit from. You may be 9 days ahead in gang assist, but you paid for it with about 10- 12 days of something else. If thats your goal then your right, but your charracter will be overall weaker for it until you've caught up with your other skills. Your example is only a couple of weeks away from gaining back the total sp spent in getting the primary from adv4 to 5, so its not really a good one. For instance, you want to train capital ships while you will not be playing for long enough to catch up on the sp. You lack the funds, so whats the best thing you can do while you get the isk? Train adv5? No, you train adv. drone interfacing, jump drive operation, jump drive calibration and that kind of stuff. You might be a day or two faster into your carrier by going adv5, but that way you'll be almost two weeks ahead in the support skills you'll need to get anyway. The "get this skill faster once it becomes available" is not an argument as long as there's skills left you havenµt maxed out.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.13 04:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Gaius Sejanus on 13/06/2007 04:45:12 Quote: Its not faulty logic those of you who say adv5 isnÆt worth it are misleading people. It is highly faulty, and nobody is being mislead, except you...by yourself. Quote: With adv5 it took me 179days to learn gang assist. With adv 4 it would have taken 188days. Nobody is denying that advanced5s will help you learn other skills faster, and your continued attempt to use this particular strawman arguement does not bode well for you. What you conveniently ignore, and the source of your faulty logic, is that training advanced5s takes time that you are not training something else. Ok, you saved 9 days of training. But you spent 12 days (or 24+ if you count the secondary skill as well) to get that advantage. So you aren't 9 days ahead, you're still 3 days behind. Quote: Many of you said catchup/time for it to be worthwhile is 3years+. HereÆs one of many examples where its way under 1 year and itÆs the adv4 playing catchup not adv5. The 3 year, 235 day payoff figure is on the assumption that you train all 5 advanced skills. The payoff for individual skills will obviously be much less, assuming you spend all of the following time training skills that are primary in that attribute. Quote: Yet you lot all say donÆt train adv5 as it slows you down as payoff is over 1 year e.c.t. There are times when adv5 doesnÆt slow you down like above where I couldnÆt train gang assist before getting adv5. Advanced 5 learning skills are not a pre-requisite to gang assist skills (because they are a pre-requisite to nothing...a broad category which includes all other skills), so this statement is just a lie. Quote: Haveing adv5 can give you more usefull skillpoints then adv4. You'd first have to find a post where anyone said otherwise, before you can take this stance. The issue is how long it takes to aquire those useful skillpoints, and the timeframe is YEARS. The math, when not grossly abused by faulty logic or ignoring inconvenient facts, is incontrovertible. Fact: It takes 632,235 skillpoints to go from Adv4 to Adv5. Fact: The result is that you get 1 skillpoint per minute more in <stat> primary skills once that training is done (ignoring the Learning skill, since its precise benefit varies depending on your base numbers). Someone else who stopped at advanced 4, has 632,235 skillpoints in <stat> skills that you do not have because you spent them on Learning. That's 632,235 minutes it will take for you to catch up to where that other person is. At 632,236 minutes, you will have surpassed them with your superior training rate. 632,235 minutes is 10,537 hours, or 439 days. 439 solid days of training nothing but <stat> primary skills. There only other interpretation is measuring total skillpoints, which is a red herring. Those 632,235 points in Learning don't give you any direct benefit, and those points cannot be meaningfully counted.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.06.13 06:18:00 - [27] ôIt is faulty logic because you assume the skill you are waiting for is the only skill you will benefit from. You may be 9 days ahead in gang assist, but you paid for it with about 10- 12 days per adv5 of something else. If thats your goal then your right, but your charracter will be overall weaker for it until you've caught up with your other skills. I donÆt assume that the only skill I am waiting for is the only one to benefit. I even said if you have skills to train now then adv5 isnÆt worth it. Its not faulty logic on my part you reading my post wrong. As I said before adv5 is only worth it if youÆre going to spend a lot of time training skills you donÆt have or cannot get before you get adv5. If you have lots of current skills that are needed doing adv4 is best. ôOk, you saved 9 days of training. But you spent 12 days (or 24+ if you count the secondary skill as well) to get that advantage. So you aren't 9 days ahead, you're still 3 days behind.ö Go back and read what I wrote. I said I was ahead in useful skillpoints which I am. I am ahead in total skillpoints as well. Different skills have different values. If itÆs a choice between say multitasking lvl 5 or learning adv5 then being 9 days ahead the adv5 path is better. I gave up 1 skill I didnÆt really need to lvl 5 to gain gang assist early then spend 9 days on say 3 rig type of skills and clone jumping and a few others. Losing 1 skill thatÆs not needed to gain 4+ skills that are needed is not 3days behind. Well in truth I gave up one skill I didnÆt need to train 30+skills that came out after I got adv5 ôAdvanced 5 learning skills are not a pre-requisite to gang assist skills (because they are a pre-requisite to nothing...a broad category which includes all other skills), so this statement is just a lie.ö ItÆs not a lie it was true. ItÆs got nothing to do pre-requisite skills, stop twisting my words. I couldnÆt train gang assist as it wasnÆt out and being and old player I had nothing else of value to train. So getting adv5 didnÆt slow me down it speeded me up as the new profession came out and I got them faster. Once you maxed your current profession getting adv5 can be useful to learn any new professions that come out at a latter date. adv4 people fall behind when learning new professions. ôou lack the funds, so whats the best thing you can do while you get the isk? Train adv5? No, you train adv. drone interfacing, jump drive operation, jump drive calibration and that kind of stuff.ö I was including the support skills into it as well as they are not cheap. It was just an example. If you can afford the support skills then train those instead. ôThere only other interpretation is measuring total skillpoints, which is a red herring.ö Your method is even worse. You make it sound like I am worse off for 439 days when in fact I am much better off with more useful skill points. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes	Posted - 2007.06.13 08:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus Fact: It takes 632,235 skillpoints to go from Adv4 to Adv5. Fact: The result is that you get 1 skillpoint per minute more in <stat> primary skills once that training is done (ignoring the Learning skill, since its precise benefit varies depending on your base numbers). learning is not a nebulous unfathomable skill dependant on base stats, 10% or 8% or 6% of your new 1 attribute point is still 1.1, 1.08 or 1.06 Sps a min assuming you trained all learning skills to 5 then you recieve 1.65 (1.1 +0.55) more per min on every skill, im assuming that you think its nebulous as you dont know what your decimal point is. im not trying to deny that to take all the adv skills from 4-5 and the base learning skill from 4-5 takes 3.65 years or whatever economically. but how many people think economically? the psychological aspect is far more important to most whatever that may be including, more total Skill points a perfect category of lvl 5s a small edge on getting new toys pushing the Skill point per hour as far as it will go getting into the top x players on in eve in a category im guilty on several counts there and im sure there are more reasons. tho as i said earler there are people who are now over the half way point in economic terms who knew that they would play eve for a long time and have done. Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:04:00 - [29] Edited by: Gaius Sejanus on 13/06/2007 10:07:11 Quote: Your method is even worse. You make it sound like I am worse off for 439 days when in fact I am much better off with more useful skill points. It makes it sound like you are worse off for 439 days because you -are- worse off for 439 days. For 439 days, the person who stops at advanced 4 has more skillpoints in non-learning skills than you have. That's why we call it the payoff time. All of the learning skills have this payoff time, just for most of them it is pretty short. 1 --> 2: 7 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes, 50 seconds. 2 --> 3: 41 days, 13 hours, 49 minutes, 41 seconds. 3 --> 4: 235 days, 4 hours, 41 minutes, 49 seconds. 4 --> 5: 3 years, 235 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes, 38 seconds. It's really very simple. Your explanations, however, are anything but simple, since they require the reader to ignore weeks of training time to come to your conclusions. Here's reality: Person A: Finishes Advanced4. Begins training "Fish Wrangling". This takes him 8 days to get to level 5. Then he trains "Seaweed Landscaping" which takes him 4 days to get to level 5. At this point, he has accumulated 632,235 skillpoints. He then moves on to another skill. Person B: Finishes Advanced 4. Begins training Advanced 5. Spends 12 days earning 632,235 skillpoints. Begins training "Fish Wrangling", which takes him 7 days, 23 hours. Then he trains "Seaweed Landscaping", which takes him 3 days and 23.5 hours. He is now equal to Person A in total skills trained...except that Person A finished those skills 2 weeks ago and has moved on to other things. Person B's increased training speed will eventually catch up to Person A, but at 1 skillpoint per minute, this process will take 632,236 minutes (which is to say, 439.052 days), after which time Person B is permenantly in the lead. After 12 days, both characters have accumulated exactly 623,235 skillpoints, but Person A actually has USEFUL skillpoints, where Person B just has more Learning. Here is Pottsey's version: Person A: Finishes Advanced4. Begins training "Fish Wrangling". This takes him 8 days to get to level 5. Then he trains "Seaweed Landscaping" which takes him 4 days to get to level 5. At this point, he has accumulated 632,235 skillpoints. He then moves on to another skill. Person B: Finishes training Advanced 5 (this is apparently magical, as it takes no real time), and trains "Fish Wrangling" in 7 days, 23 hours, and is now ahead of Person A.
Kavol Valarius Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.13 10:14:00 - [30] I took all the advanced to 5. Even the charisma. I'm obsessive compulsive and quite, quite, mad. ------

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.