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Tsunamisan
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Posted - 2007.06.09 18:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tsunamisan on 09/06/2007 18:42:14
The problem is when you have someone out mining or minding their own business then someone comes in and steals from your can or even worse puts something into it which instantly gives them a kill right when you take anything from that can. In this instance some unnamed pirate came into 0.6 space engaged our miner and when the call for help cam to his group mates and they engaged they got Concorded. What baffles me is how this guy could be actively locking down the Miner and his corp/group mates could not help defend him. Then concord shoots down the players trying to help which is pretty backwards on how it should be. They exist to protect the law. But th fact is th only point they step in is when you engage a neutral party in empire where they should protect people from pirates as well that mess with their can they have mined such as lowering the concord standing with the player that steals or CCP could make it so that it is impossible to steal from cans or put stuff into them if you are not part of the fleet with the owner.
Insurance is also another big issue. The way they don't allow you to even remotely insure a tech2 ship. Most insurance policy give you the price of the ship but not your mods there should be the same thing for tech2 ships except the payout of the insurance would be half the market value of the ship so if the ship is 60mil isk to build you would get 30mil isk back from the insurance from the ship loss.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.06.09 18:44:00 -
[2]
all cans/wrecks/everything in space has a corp ticker name on it showing who it belongs too.
If you cant spy a can with your own corp ticker on it then whos fault is that.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 09/06/2007 19:17:54
Actually, you got it all wrong. At first, it was much, much easier to steal ore from jetcans. The miner could not do anything about it.
After lots of forum whining (and I do mean lots), CCP gave in and allowed the can thief to be shot on sight by the owner of the can and the corp mates of the owner (when not in a npc corp). They even made it such that when your corpmates attack the thief, only he can defend himself. Everybody else that tries to help him and shoots the guys that attack him gets Concord on them. This is what the mining groups begged CCP for to implement it.
Now, to come back to your story: What happened to your miner? Most likely the pirate dropped a can next to the miner or had someone else move all the stuff from the miner's can into it. When the miner wants to take it back, he's agro'd to the pirate. The pirate can attack him and nobody can help protect the miner. In this case, the miner became the thief and can be attacked and not helped.
Solution: simply look at the color of the can, is it yellow? Don't touch it. Is it white? Take from it.
Is this CCP supporting piracy? No, this is CCP listening to miners and having pirates adapt to those new rules and use them against the miners.
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Tsunamisan
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:19:00 -
[4]
Read it again that is not what i am saying at all. I am talking about people taking from you own and putting it in there own cans without any retaliation from concord. so if you ever want to get it back you have to steal it back in which case th guy that stole it just kills you.
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:22:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Detrol on 09/06/2007 19:23:20
That's what he's explaining. Your miner should accept that the his can got stolen from. If he doesn't steal it back, the pirate cannot touch him. That's the mistake the miner made, he stole his stuff back from the pirate. I don't like to compare to real-life situations, but just for fun, if you are mugged in a street by a guy that has guns in his pockets and he takes your wallet. What would happen to you if you take it back while you have no guns, nothing to defend yourself?
Like Agor said, this is what miners asked for! At first, ore thiefs could steal and nobody could touch them at all, they never got flagged to the owner of the can at all.
The strange thing in your story to me is that when the pirate stole from the miner's can, your whole corp should have been able to hit the pirate, unless the miners is in a npc corp.
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Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:24:00 -
[6]
The title of the thread should be restated as
How Piracy favors naive or soloist players.
The person in question could have easily avoided the situation if he had had his friends their as a security measure when the pirate originally stole from the miners can. Likewise, had the miner been paying attention the incident would have never happened.
If you walk around carrying a money bag on your shoulder, dont be surprised if someone tries to steal it. Dont be surprised if they succeed when you dont have any protective measures in place.
CONCORD's job is NOT to protect people from piracy. Its job is to punish those that break the laws whether they are right or wrong.
With great power comes great responsibility...and hawt cyborz! |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:26:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Tsunamisan
Read it again that is not what i am saying at all. I am talking about people taking from you own and putting it in there own cans without any retaliation from concord. so if you ever want to get it back you have to steal it back in which case th guy that stole it just kills you.
Can theft is legal. Only, if someone steals from your can, you get the chance to shoot them.
If they steal from your can (even just to move it to their own can), you shoot them to stop them. If you can't shoot them (because you're overpowered), then you can't stop them.
If you have the power to shoot at the thief, you'll equally have plenty of fire power for nicking it back out of their can. If you don't, then you would have lost it either way.
The morale of the story- have an escort. And if you can't get an escort, make sure you only mine somewhere extremely quiet, and watch local like a hawk, almost as if you were in low sec.
If you are unable to protect yourself, and unable to hide, then it is not CCP's fault. This is a game, after all- you're meant to develop some skills for competing with others.
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Tsunamisan
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:27:00 -
[8]
And if the guy put something in your can and you take out of your can you become a instant aggression target by that player. What do you have to say about this?
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Sm0kE
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Keorythe
The title of the thread should be restated as
How Piracy favors naive or soloist players.
QFT.
Protect yourself, concord is not for can thieves.
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Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Sm0kE
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tsunamisan
And if the guy put something in your can and you take out of your can you become a instant aggression target by that player. What do you have to say about this?
Sounds like a bug that might need fixin'
You could always pop another can though I suppose. Also, for all those getting your ore ganked, get creative. It makes for a whole lot of fun :p Especially when someone comes to steal a corp can in a Mission fit Raven and they're totally unaware of the 5 guys on the other side of the gate.
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Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
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Thommy
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:35:00 -
[11]
easy solution to this one, break out your own alt or have an friend drop in on an alt (either an combat pilot or if not able to field one just an expandable new out of the box player).
Now just flip the can back again, new out of the box alt gets shot (no big loss) and you just ship back the ore from your / your friend his character his can and avoid it.
Plain thinking but what they can do to you, you can also do back to them.
Im sure that after an while they get pretty bored shooting new out of the box characters in rookie ships.
Guide to fix eve problems.
Cleanup your cache with my cache tool |
Tsunamisan
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:46:00 -
[12]
yup had that happen too its no fun when you cant fend someone off an all they have to do is put 1 piece of veldspar into your can then attack you the next person that comes to touch the can. There is no indication at all that th cans bean tampered with especially if you put in th can what th person is mining. loosing 1 can is not th problem is not knowing thats its bean tampered with thats th problem. say your hauler friend comes to pick it up. he doesn't know exactly whats in the can. He gets popped because the cans bean tamped with. Just doesn't seam right to me.
Originally by: Sm0kE
Originally by: Tsunamisan
And if the guy put something in your can and you take out of your can you become a instant aggression target by that player. What do you have to say about this?
Sounds like a bug that might need fixin'
You could always pop another can though I suppose. Also, for all those getting your ore ganked, get creative. It makes for a whole lot of fun :p Especially when someone comes to steal a corp can in a Mission fit Raven and they're totally unaware of the 5 guys on the other side of the gate.
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.09 19:52:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Detrol on 09/06/2007 19:51:32
He can't put stuff in your can, believe me. He gets a message that the can is owned by .... and that he isn't in a gang or in the same corp with the owner of the can.
Try it out but don't use a corp mate or gang mate's can.
The pirate switched cans (popped the miner's can, jettisoned his can). That's what happened.
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Splitter Macdung
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.09 20:25:00 -
[14]
CCP favors PVP, piracy is a goal, not a problem.
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Vale Heavy Industries
We'll haul Your Stuff For Free!
MOLOTOV COALITION
...And Probably Just Set It On Fire. |
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari
EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.06.09 20:28:00 -
[15]
Quote:
And if the guy put something in your can and you take out of your can you become a instant aggression target by that player. What do you have to say about this?
This is simply not possible - I tested it just to be sure. The thief would have popped something out of his hold to make a can of his own, and then dragged the ore from your can to his can. He would then have been flagged for aggro to you and any gang/corp members present. If you try to take the stuff back, you'll be flagged with aggro to him - which is what 95% of ore thieves want: a fight.
If you do get caught out, the simplest solution is to dock up, grab a hauler and go back to his can. Start on the far side of the can, align to the station then grab the loot and warp out. If the thief flies a hauler? Well, this is one reason why when mining I tend to fit a warp scrambler - drones will make quick work of him.
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Tractor Beams
Caldari Buff |
Kage Psychodin
Caldari
The Empire Nation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.10 05:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kage Psychodin on 10/06/2007 05:04:52
My suggestion is to get back at the can flipper with a very simple, if not slightly expensive tactic. The transport blockade runner have much much better tanking capability and for the right ones built in warp core stabilizers, which means a sole thief cannot prevent you (if I know how it works properlly) from warping. the trick is to warp in, pass the can, loop back aligned, and then approach past aligned at full speed, click the can, click open - Ctrl + A on the window to select all, dump/do what you need to get some, then quickly slam the dock button. you might even insta warp.
 dock for 15, (I recommend a timer to get it exact) and then come back to see if they want another pass or if they brought friends.
EDOT: Even better if you have a second accout! bring along an alt in a shuttle from that account to REFLIP the can for you. what are they going to do? blow up his ship? you'll just dock, bring back another shuttle, reflip, and if he pods the guy, He'll get a big sec hit and be concordokkened
Another one bites the dust. |
Saint Lazarus
C R Y O
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.10 05:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tsunamisan
And if the guy put something in your can and you take out of your can you become a instant aggression target by that player. What do you have to say about this?
Yep like others are sayin this is proof you have no idea whats going on.
Cant put stuff into someone elses can unless you're a gang/corpmate so clearly you guys were lost in a situation you didnt understand :P
Learn from it, dont whine and ask CCP to change it and next time be ready
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.06.10 05:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 10/06/2007 05:58:40
CONCORD exists to PUNISH the guilty, NOT to protect the innocent. No one is innocent in EVE, not even a 2 hr noob.
I will grant you insurance issue. It should be balanced, when one's ship is destroyed by Concord or Customs officials. Other than that, there are ways of dealing with EVERYTHING in EVE, you have the tools, you might lack n "know-how," but you got the tools.
When mining with the mates in .5+ System:
Have a Hauler standing by that will take ALL of the ore out of the can.
Keep a bookmark in the can, to prevent it from exploding.
Keep a lookout for troublemakers.
Keep vigilant when it comes to your stuff.
That will help allot.
Empire is not a "safe" and "trouble-free" zone. We are in space, where allot of bad things happen to ALL people. Space is dangerous, people, unless they are trusted implicitly are dangerous too, learn from your mistakes, adapt.
I quote something we have all seen:
"I am sorry for your loss. I hope that you will be able to recover quickly."
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