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eric sparrow
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Posted - 2004.01.13 09:32:00 -
[1]
The problem with the current bounty system is that theres nothing to stop a player with a bounty on their head "cashing" in the bounty with the help of a friend and a shiny new clone. Im sure implants stop people doing this to an extent but it still kinda makes a mockery of the system and stops people even thinking about putting a price on someones head. Cos if they ve just ganked you why give them potentially, more free money.
To get around that i propose that every say 1 million isk put on a bounty removes, for arguements sake, 100k of skill points upon the collection of the bounty. So no matter what the clone a person has they d loose those skill points. But thats not really fair, so, i also think that in lower sec medical stations it should be possible to bribe the medical staff to remove loss.. or insure against it.. not really important how but just that it costs the same as the bounty. So a 5 million bounty would cost you a 5 million charge to negate the skill points loss. If the bounty go toooo massive and was totally impractical to pay off then there should be ways of using sec rating to remove the whole thing. For example a sec rating of +5 would remove all bounties from a players head.
Im sure the system as i ve propsed would be open to abuses and would need safe guards and other stuff to make it work properly, like who could put a bounty on and when. It wouldnt be fair if people put bounties on just before attacking an enemy fleet, but those things are by the by. I think the concept could work.
If you had a 200 mill bounty on your head, who would you trust??
ok.. you can flame me now if you want..
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.01.13 09:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 13/01/2004 09:47:44
Perhaps a system where the people paying the bounty will be able to hold a vote, much like the one used by shareholders, depending on how much bounty they've put in of course, whether or not the bounty was legitimatelly claimed and should be paid.
If the vote is unsuccessful the money is forfeit, perhaps with the followed side effect that a drafted votee gets to take a Concord standings hit for not promoting justice. Legit people should have little problem repairing this over time and also work out a system not having the same few people posting the bounty ever time.
Of course there would be loopholes such as pirates adding to the bounty themselves via the designated hitter to gain a majority vote but at least it's a draft to work on. 
Denying all payments out of spite 'cause you don't like the people doing the bountyhunting I figure most people would see as counterproductive, at least I hope so.
Convert Stations
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Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.01.13 09:48:00 -
[3]
200M bounty on its head ? mmmm ...
i guess that a third party guy would pod him in order to share the money. There's enough to buy new implants and clones + a brand new BS.
So, huge bounty could lead to huge exploits
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
eric sparrow
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Posted - 2004.01.13 09:59:00 -
[4]
a 200 million bounty on his head would mean a loss of 20 million skill points if the "pirate" hadnt matched the bounty. So even if they did get a 3rd party they d make a profit of zero. However to do this they d need that 200 million to begin with. But in retrospect you d probably need to have bounties only collectable by people with licenses. Something that you cant purchase and comes via agents and sec rating ( maybe ). Definatly not something easy to get anyway. This would mean that normal kills wouldnt collect the bounty, but they would hurt the "pirate" financially, which would be a bonus of sorts i guess.. dunno.. like i said just an idea 
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Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2004.01.13 10:34:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
a 200 million bounty on his head would mean a loss of 20 million skill points if the "pirate" hadnt matched the bounty. So even if they did get a 3rd party they d make a profit of zero. However to do this they d need that 200 million to begin with. But in retrospect you d probably need to have bounties only collectable by people with licenses. Something that you cant purchase and comes via agents and sec rating ( maybe ). Definatly not something easy to get anyway. This would mean that normal kills wouldnt collect the bounty, but they would hurt the "pirate" financially, which would be a bonus of sorts i guess.. dunno.. like i said just an idea
A license system was planed by CCP (was in the FAQ up untill a few month ago under "5.2 What effect does security status have?"). I hope they pick up that idea again as the new standing system starts to work properly. |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.01.13 10:49:00 -
[6]
I don't like this idea at all - there is no logic in losing skillpoints due to a bounty.
I believe the best way is to simply not add bounty. If no bounty is added, there will be no money to gain.
I've also been informed that many pirates like their bounty, and don't wanna lose it, no matter how much money it would give them - and that some even add bounty to themselves.
You do have a point though - if a pirate wants to get his bounty by having a friend kill him, he will. One way that might solve it is to not allow bounty to be paid if he's killed by a corpmate - but that'll also be open to exploits (friends in other corps, the ability to quit a corp and so on).
Another idea : A register that bounty hunters can sign up to to be able to collect the bounty. That'd mark him as a bounty hunter and give him the ability to get the money. (ok, this idea sucks too but with some modification it might not)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.01.13 11:06:00 -
[7]
No not at all, bountyhunters claiming the bounty before hand and having a shot at claiming it for a certain amount of time could be something but then again we'd need proper tracking and assault tools to be able to catch the pirates with their pants down.
To avoid exploits here with alts and 2nd accounts claiming their own bounty I'd say at least 50% of the skillpoints of the target is needed with the hunter and you cannot claim the same bounty for more than 2 periods in a row, giving you ample time no matter what the deadline should happen to be...
Convert Stations
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Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.01.13 12:21:00 -
[8]
Well, be a bounty is to be hunted by CONCORD (for the moment). So, CONCORD will force empires to not provide a clone (more than the basic one) to the hunted player. This will avoid bounty to use the "third party" podkilling to take the bounty money.
The other thing that could be veeeeeery cool for bounty hunting system is that you get rewarded if and only if you get back the "right" corpse to a CONCORD bureau for authentication. You give the corpse to a CONCORD agent, and it gives you back the money.
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.01.13 12:30:00 -
[9]
I think they have something like this up their sleeves with the criminal dog tags currently on display on the market.
Convert Stations
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Gilgamoth
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:13:00 -
[10]
How about, you can only claim the bounty if you have a +ive sec rating? That would stop pirates claiming their own bounty.
You couldn't claim your own bouty with an alt cos both of you can't be logged on together, although you could with a second account, but then you could circumvent nearly every proposal with a 2nd account.
-oOo-
Captain Gilgamoth
Head of Research & Development - Hadean Drive Yards
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Jera
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Posted - 2004.01.13 13:46:00 -
[11]
(
Low security level people have to use rogue cloning stations, since no one in the Empires really wants them alive again.
Rogue cloning stations aren't really concerned so far with the law and its issues. So when the bountied guy clone awake, they may propose them this deal : "Listen guy, you have a X isk on your head you know. We could just kill you right now and bring your corpse for the bounty, or you play clever and hand us the cash to save your life."
So the bounty will not only be what the killer will earn, but also what the victim will have to pay to save his clone. The flaw in this idea is : what would happen if the victim can't afford his clone extra price ?
)
Discuss loyalty to the State issues on the 'Caldari' channel
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.01.13 14:31:00 -
[12]
A player who lose that many skillpoints will stop playing, that's the big flaw in the idea.
EVE needs the pirates, don't refuse them their clones.
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Amicus
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Posted - 2004.01.14 09:43:00 -
[13]
Eric sparrow, good proposal! This is new idea as far as I can tell. It is simple and seems to solve the problem of making sure that the bounty payer is getting something for his or her isk. There have been previous proposals in the forums that had similar effect, requiring the bounty target to pay a fee at least equal to his bounty to get an advanced clone at his demise.
I do not think licensing is a good idea. See Bounty Licensingdiscussion. Targets should fear everyone! Their allies, their corp mates, their bosom buddies, should all be potential bounty collectors -- not just a select few ôlicensedö players.
Scorpyn has a point that if the punishment is too harsh, the game will lose player pirates. Without getting into a debate over pirate or carebear goals for game environment, letÆs just say that some piracy is a good thing for the game. Assuming that the bounty target cannot pay the bribery fee, and does not want to lose the skill points, how about providing a third option of having the target wait until the heat from the authorities blows over for the bribery fee to come down to 0. The bribery fee might come down by 3% per day for example, while the targetÆs DNA is on ice. The player of the target could still play an Alt while waiting for the fee to come down to a more manageable level. Bounty targets who get their security rating into positive levels for long periods also ought to be allowed to have their bounties reduced gradually to 0. If the bounty system is improved, then consideration should be made for allowing pirates back into empire space.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 14/01/2004 13:48:30
There is only one problem with this idea and that is it is very expensive for the pirate.
Now I am talking pirates here not the pointless podders and pod killers. Piracy is a high risk low income (althought very high fun I admit) role. Having to constantly pay a high price in isk to people (agents or whatever) just to get your skill points back if your caught and podded (and for most pirates that dont use the usual lame assed tactics this is fairly reasonable) will force many pirates to the point where they cannot keep going.
This has two negative consequences. The first is that it will encourage more pirates to adopt the "lame" tactics in order to surivive and keep going or it will simply drive out the remaining ones and force them to become miners or similar.
Its a good idea but does need some significant balancing in order to stop the people who try to be proper pirates from becoming an extinct group within EVE.
Scorpyns addition is a good idea. The bounty license should take into account the stats of all your alt characters so it is not so easy. The only loophole in that it cannot stop somone with 2 accounts or somone who has a friend who is still legit from getting a license. But it does make it harder.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Amicus
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Posted - 2004.01.14 17:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Amicus on 14/01/2004 20:09:50
Wild Rho, while a license may make bounty fraud ôharderö it does not fix the problem. The current bounty system totally ignores the possibility of fraud, and licensing does not prevent it either. A ôlicensedö hunter can still be a friend of the target and give the target the bounty.
Bounties currently are a farce. Putting a bounty on a person is more likely to help them (by giving them notoriety) than harm them in Eve. Bounty prices are low, because of the risk of bounty fraud. Because bounty prices are low, bounty hunting is not worth the time and risk involved. Any genuine bounty system in Eve must assume that the target will collude with the bounty hunter to collect some or all of the bounty.
If bounties are not made more effective, then it would be better to eliminate them entirely from the game. The present bounty system amounts to false advertising. At least without any bounties, people would not be under the illusion that there is a system for players to curb player excesses in the game. Even for those pirates who desire high bounties for their reputation, the system does not work. With the system so flawed, one must question whether the pirate with the high bounty has added to it him or herself, just to self aggrandize. A flawed bounty system serves neither the avowed notoriety interest of pirates nor the vengeance interest of aggrieved victims. A genuine bounty system could have been the primary method of policing player behavior in the game, as opposed to what we got -- the exiling of pirates from empire space.
Rho you complain that pirates would not be able to afford eric sparrowÆs proposed system. What if instead of paying the fee or taking the skill point hit, the bounty target just waits twenty or thirty days for the fee to be reduced to the point it is eliminated? The poor pirate then keeps his or her skill points. Even if the bounty is collected by the pirate, the bounty payer would still get a benefit of protection against that pirate for a period.
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Jera
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Posted - 2004.01.15 16:36:00 -
[16]
Quote:
A player who lose that many skillpoints will stop playing, that's the big flaw in the idea.
EVE needs the pirates, don't refuse them their clones.
(
Yes pirates are part of the game.
No i'm not refusing them the ability to get cloned.
Please consider re-reading my proposal.
)
Discuss loyalty to the State issues on the 'Caldari' channel
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Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.01.15 17:01:00 -
[17]
One idea I had, was that the Bounty Hunter is paid the lower insurance premium rate, of the ship the pirate was killed in.
That way the pirate gains zilch in the bounty being claimed by him or his mates, and the bounty hunter can gain a fair bit if hes more skillfull and kills the pirate in a BS...
Nem
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2004.01.15 17:12:00 -
[18]
in my humble opinion all a license should do is protect you from concord and sentry guns
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Amicus
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Posted - 2004.01.15 22:00:00 -
[19]
Paw I agree, there should be some allowance for bounty hunters to shoot/kill bounty targets without having to worry about a security penalty (and ensuing turret gun and Concord punishment). A license could work well for that. Hunters who wanted a ôlicense to killö should probably have to keep their security status above a certain level (e.g., 3.0+) and pay a fee (e.g., 30k to 80k for a weekÆs license). Such a license would not stop anyone else from trying to collect a bounty. The license would just provide a way for those who want to make a profession of bounty hunting from having to let their security status go down due to their work for the general public good.
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Amicus
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Posted - 2004.01.16 08:23:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Amicus on 16/01/2004 08:25:42
Edited by: Amicus on 16/01/2004 08:23:48
An interesting twist, what if players could affect the security status of other players by what they set in their personal standings? For example, if 3000 players decide one player is of detestable standing, that player might have all security penalties multiplied by 10 and gains cut by 90%. Sort of like voting the player off the Island.  This would add some teeth to a working bounty system that is based on security status.
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Paw Sandberg
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Posted - 2004.01.16 18:49:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Edited by: Amicus on 16/01/2004 08:25:42
Edited by: Amicus on 16/01/2004 08:23:48
An interesting twist, what if players could affect the security status of other players by what they set in their personal standings? For example, if 3000 players decide one player is of detestable standing, that player might have all security penalties multiplied by 10 and gains cut by 90%. Sort of like voting the player off the Island. This would add some teeth to a working bounty system that is based on security status.
i kinda wantet this kind off system for sec lvl in systems
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
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Amicus
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Posted - 2004.01.16 23:46:00 -
[22]
Hi Paw, I had a recollection of your suggesting a judicial system, but I could not find the thread or I would have referenced/linked it. 
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