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Sky Hausmann Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.06.10 16:49:00 - [1] Will BoB win? Will they not? I don't care! If BoB finally fails, there will be some other mob who tries to dominate the rest. Reading all this, I must say I don't like BoB. But I don't like any other ally either, whose members shoot at me without warning when I just try to pass a system in peaceful transfer (I'm not talking about pirates - it's part of their role/ job-, I mean regular troops/ fleets which are not at war with me or the little corp I may be a member of). I'm not interested in PvP, or in conquering systems or even empires. I don't want to destroy some other's hard work. I just want to have some fun and feel the sense of wonder in outback systems I perhaps would be the first to explore. When I joined EVE in 2006 I had this "space - the final frontier" illusion. Now I must realized that literally everything is yet controlled by well settled elder characters and their organisations, and no new member of the community has a real chance to find his/ her own niche in this universe. After all, its simply a domination game like many others before. What does this mean for me? Once my account is subject to yearly recurrance again, I will re-assess the situation. If it's gone worse, I would simply quit, and leave the game alone for BoB (or whoever). When the last noob ship is destroyed, the last outpost is captured, the last system is taken, You will realize that you can't eat ISK."
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.10 16:55:00 - [2] We're all independent gamers aren't we ? The fact that seems to irk you is that the action of any single person affects that of other persons within this game world. It's just easier to identify a large group of people doing this then to identify each individual that affects your gameplay. That's not going to change btw, the fact that we all affect eachother's gameplay. It's the whole idea behind this game. [center] Old blog
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.06.10 16:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Sky Hausmann Blah Blah Blah BoB Blah Blah Blah Your name is familiar from a book. In fact...you were killed off in the book in some horrible fashion. The name of the book escapes me but my main question would be: Why didn't you stay dead....and silent? Hopefully LAST in yet another "ohnoes BoB BoB nerf iquitgimmemymoneyback waste of server space thread" "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.10 16:58:00 - [4] Dude, create your own corp, even. Most 0.0 people don't think twice about shooting the noobcorps; 99.999% of the time, they're alt spies. Then go hang out in NPC 0.0 space. You'll have a blast. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:07:00 - [5] If you dislike BoB this much, why not leave your NPC corp and join one of the many "anti-BoB" corporations out there, to take the fight to them? Because - guess what - only that way can BoB be defeated! by Arms! BoB dont just win because they are smarter or more experienced players. BoB wins because they love what they do - the fight - and they keep close no matter if they loose or win! You want to win against them? Stop whining and grab a gun! You might loose anyway, but at least you tried! And for that you can be sure BoB will show you more respect for, then jumping on the forums whining about it! Weapons and experience might set the result for the battle, but morale will always be a important piece between victory or defeat of a war. Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:12:00 - [6] If you come to space CLAIMED by a group, without their approval, they SHOULD shoot you. And they dont have to give approval, not even if you ask nicely. As for NPC corps and other complete unknowns, expect a lot of refusals. Its YOUR job to "prove" you are not a hostile agent. If you disagree, please come to 0.0, control some space, and show us how it should be done. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Ima Nalt	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:17:00 - [7] "Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..." Nathan Fillion (as Mal Reynolds) Serenity 2005
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:21:00 - [8] Originally by: Sky Hausmann Will BoB win? Will they not? I don't care! If BoB finally fails, there will be some other mob who tries to dominate the rest. Reading all this, I must say I don't like BoB. But I don't like any other ally either, whose members shoot at me without warning when I just try to pass a system in peaceful transfer (I'm not talking about pirates - it's part of their role/ job-, I mean regular troops/ fleets which are not at war with me or the little corp I may be a member of). I'm not interested in PvP, or in conquering systems or even empires. I don't want to destroy some other's hard work. I just want to have some fun and feel the sense of wonder in outback systems I perhaps would be the first to explore. When I joined EVE in 2006 I had this "space - the final frontier" illusion. Now I must realized that literally everything is yet controlled by well settled elder characters and their organisations, and no new member of the community has a real chance to find his/ her own niche in this universe. After all, its simply a domination game like many others before. What does this mean for me? Once my account is subject to yearly recurrance again, I will re-assess the situation. If it's gone worse, I would simply quit, and leave the game alone for BoB (or whoever). When the last noob ship is destroyed, the last outpost is captured, the last system is taken, You will realize that you can't eat ISK." Get in a covert ops, and go explore. And EVE was from the start a domination game. among alot of other things Originally by: Jiekon/CCP If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:30:00 - [9] Yes, as an independant gamer, without joining a corporation or alliance your chances or success in Eve are quite low. RISE Recruitment Thread
Ithoriel Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:44:00 - [10] Edited by: Ithoriel on 10/06/2007 17:43:47 Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Yes, as an independant gamer, without joining a corporation or alliance your chances or success in Eve are quite low. Depends how you measure success, I guess. I've been soloing happily in EVE for just over 2 years. Pottering about, having fun, finding interesting things to try, chatting to interesting people. That's success to me. YMMV Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional
Eric Lupanasia	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:46:00 - [11] Speaking as someone who's been playing for about a month and a half, who has never so much as targeted another player ship, and who still ducks his head venturing into 0.4 space on missions... well, I've got to say "that's how the game is". This is pretty much the Wild West set in hard vacuum (the first one of you to mention the words "space" and "cowboy" together gets some depleted uranium to the forehead ), and the "lawless lands" (low-sec space) are held by those with the muscle to hold them. Life is risk, and in EVE some careful planning and forethought can cut that risk dramatically, but it can never be completely negated. And honestly, a game with upwards of 30,000 players on at prime time leaves precious little room for the solitary-hero sort. I'm afraid you and your rickety but spunky Velator are not going to make the miracle run at BoB's Titan and deliver the photon torpedo that wins the day for the little guy. Your niche is defined by what you can do for the greater good of the group you choose to join. With work and talent, you do have the chance to advance far enough to be a "name", to in turn give a guiding hand to the new up-and-comers to whom Jita is just a reputation (like me ). Besides, you have to admit- it adds a certain amount of spice to the game to have a "big heavy" like BoB to rail against. ------------------- Signature removed pursuant to Gallente Federation protocol 37285-7DS-518: Did not contain enough references to drones.
Sasakisan	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:48:00 - [12] To the original poster: How would you feel about playing on a PVE server or in a space game separate from EVE but developed by CCP to meet the needs of players such as yourself? Do you feel it's possible for one version of EVE to keep both hardcore PVP players and players with your play style happy?
Samuel Freedom Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Yes, as an independant gamer, without joining a corporation or alliance your chances or success in Eve are quite low. Define success please - IMO success can and is achieved by lots of people in noob corps, it all depends what they want to do. Granted it closes alot of doors but it also opens up a few aswell. It is not for me though as my goals require me to be in a corp and in the future I will need to be in a bigger one.
Khatred Fluffy Mungoose Guinea Pigs	Posted - 2007.06.10 18:02:00 - [14] No chance for independent gamers? I beg to differ
das licht Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.10 18:06:00 - [15] Help is in sight! The Federation of Light is grouping a giantic fleet to rescue the last remaining and free EVE cluster.
Dau Imperius Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.10 18:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Sasakisan To the original poster: How would you feel about playing on a PVE server or in a space game separate from EVE but developed by CCP to meet the needs of players such as yourself? Do you feel it's possible for one version of EVE to keep both hardcore PVP players and players with your play style happy? I've been saying this for years mate! You'd be surprised what woudl happen in an EVE server where PvP was not forced upon you. For one: There'd be more people playing, they'd be less overall jerk-mentality players. (Because PvP is optional for them to get thier jollies off), and people would actually play longer. (200,000 players my arse, that's 200 alts, second/third accounts and non-paying ones) Anyways, as I said, I ranted on about that a long long time ago. I had the feeling 4 years ago: Space...the final frontier. Almost Fire-fly ish in a way. At least they could stay the heck away from anyone they didn't like, (and when they couldn't they simply had to move out farther, or play sides against each other) But I lost all hope of EVE becoming more then what I've always called: Counter-Strike in space. The players will only ever want that now, and CCP hands it to them on a silver platter. They want the whole dark and nobody is your friend deal. The fact they encourage everything most 'casual' gamers despise is only testament to that. So why do I play? Because it's still the only real Space MMO out (I don't really consider SWG 'space' It's teriible lame in that aspect.) Until there's a new one (or one that doesn't go out because of stupid companies pulling the plug..grr), I'll be here on and off, in high sec space: Never losing anything, while slowly gaining. You'll just have to grin and bear it like the rest of us minority players. Most of EVE sucks, and it's not the game's fault in full, it's now the players as well. What's bad is they fail to realise it becuase most of the good people left long ago. Now to them: If you can't PvP, you're nothing. Stupid isn't it?
violator2k5 Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.10 18:22:00 - [17] Edited by: violator2k5 on 10/06/2007 18:21:47 if your leaving then leave. chosing the title of the subject "No chance for independent gamers" plus your obvious misfortune to directly think that if bob win that is what will happen. before i joined bob or even knew of them, i was making a fair amount of isk and building a lot of relationships with a few well known and some not so well known industrialists..... all links in the food chain that supports any form of PVP / PVE or just plain carebearing miner types. its not about 0.0 and owning a peice that gives you your chance in the EVE universe but who you know and how well you are known. weather through devious acts or through good form, these are the things that give you greater benifits and more respect from the eve populace and opens more doors for your eve future ---------------------------- BOB 4 LIFE NOT JUST 4 A DAY ----------------------------
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.06.11 00:49:00 - [18] You try and carve your own nieche out in this game you get nerfed. Live with it or quit SKUNK
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.11 01:02:00 - [19] This is an MMO- that is, Massively Multiplayer Online game. You WILL be competing with others, and you WILL be expected to destroy other people's hard work. If you don't want to play with and against other people, multiplayer games probably aren't going to be your cup of tea. If you want to play in 0.0 space, you have 3 basic options: 1: Join a corp that has 0.0 access, or create your own corp and get "permission" (often paying for access) to utilise the space they claim. 2: Create a corp and carve out your own bit of territory to play in. 3: Go ninja style and play in other people's under used space without their permission (or in NPC 0.0 space), and simply learn to avoid death. Claiming and holding space is not some easy task that Vets do for free, just to spite newbies, you know. Its a work of massive complexity, and huge difficulty. Those who "claim" that space earn the right to call it their own every day, or lose it pretty fast to those who can. Every new player can't get what is essentially EVE's "end game" for free the moment they ask for it. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of an "end game". Bottom line is, there are only 5000 odd systems, and 200,000 paying account. Theres simply not enough room for everyone to have a system of their own- you've got to learn to play with others. And that means either making friends or kicking arse. --------
eveplayer11	Posted - 2007.06.11 02:32:00 - [20] ... here i thought this was Many Men Online flirting away in the chatroom then i get that bomb.. thx
Phoenix Lord The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.11 02:45:00 - [21] Well one of the points of a MMO game is to play with others.. not alone.. But other than that, why should an alliance who risked their assets and fought for their space, allow you to roam around for free? Alliances need their own space for money making; if they let anyone and everyone just roam around freely in their space, they would run out of roids to mine and rats to kill. Sounds like youre just being lazy and greedy. Arrow Capital Ship Sales
Maraude Fury Minmatar Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.11 03:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Yes, as an independant gamer, without joining a corporation or alliance your chances or success in Eve are quite low. Actually, you can be QUITE successfull on your own. You just can't do it in the same way that others do. Rhaegor and I are in the same alliance, and we strive to build a strong alliance with a space of our own, and to defend it against all hostiles. That is what we find fun. This nessesitates working together with hundreds of others. If you want to go it alone though, you can done one of many things. You can be a market mogul, a production God, a solo Pirate extrardinaire, anti-pirate/bounty hunter, top notch mission runner and so on.. Many persuits in this game can be accomplished by a single individual. You just have to do them on your own terms. A solo anti-Pirate can devestate a small pirate alliance, simply by stalking them and picking off their members one by one. If you can achieve a kill/death ratio of 5:1 I would consider you a success. This can be QUITE rewarding, but takes a LOT of patience. And even "Newbies" to the game can succeed. Most of my corp is under a year old. We have a few vets, but most are under a year. Yet they've joined an alliance, helped to carve out our own little corner of space, and have helped to defend it against some very large odds, and survived. This has been extreamly rewarding. But takes a team effort. If you want to go it solo, you can. Just pick an opponent, and give it your all. Maraude Fury Shadow Of The Light .SOL.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.11 04:25:00 - [23] Ah, I guess Maraude is correct. The only success in this game, in my eyes, is owning 0.0 space. Everything else leading you do in this game imo is supposed to lead you to 0.0 space eventually where you stake your claim to player controlled space. I really couldn't imagine running missions all day to earn billions upon billions of ISK if this wasn't you goal, because why else would you do it? What good is that ISK if you don't use it for something meaningful? And the only thing in this game with any meaning is defeating other human beings in PvP and taking their home and crushing their dreams. RISE Recruitment Thread
Nekuva The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.11 04:45:00 - [24] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: Sky Hausmann Blah Blah Blah BoB Blah Blah Blah Your name is familiar from a book. In fact...you were killed off in the book in some horrible fashion. The name of the book escapes me but my main question would be: Why didn't you stay dead....and silent? Hopefully LAST in yet another "ohnoes BoB BoB nerf iquitgimmemymoneyback waste of server space thread" Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds. Brilliant Series. Sky Haussman's story is told in Chasm City. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Originally by: Haffrage One does not simply log in to Jita.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.06.11 04:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Ah, I guess Maraude is correct. The only success in this game, in my eyes, is owning 0.0 space. Everything else leading you do in this game imo is supposed to lead you to 0.0 space eventually where you stake your claim to player controlled space. I really couldn't imagine running missions all day to earn billions upon billions of ISK if this wasn't you goal, because why else would you do it? What good is that ISK if you don't use it for something meaningful? And the only thing in this game with any meaning is defeating other human beings in PvP and taking their home and crushing their dreams. Achievers: Fastest time running X mission. Biggest isk number possible in wallet. Obtaining one of every item. Flying every ship. X number of SP. X number of skills @ max rank. Explorers: Exploration. Being a pioneer in a dead system. Socializers: Organizing a huge corp. Running an EvE related message board. EVE Radio. Killers: PvP. PvE dominance. Killing X person. Killing X with Y ship, which is grossly underpowered for the encounter. This is why people play EVE. Never believe that your gameplay style is the only one, or the most important one.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.06.11 04:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Amarria Black This is why people play EVE. Never believe that your gameplay style is the only one, or the most important one. "In my eyes" is actually what I said, but I do believe the developers have made it fairly clear that my gameplay style IS the most important one, or at least the one that they care the most about and spend the most time on, but you can argue about that with someone else. RISE Recruitment Thread
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Amarria Black This is why people play EVE. Never believe that your gameplay style is the only one, or the most important one. "In my eyes" is actually what I said, but I do believe the developers have made it fairly clear that my gameplay style IS the most important one, or at least the one that they care the most about and spend the most time on, but you can argue about that with someone else. And I understand this. My intent wasn't to be confrontational, merely to expound further upon the concept of why people do what they do. The roid-crazy miner couldn't possibly imagine why anyone would want to do anything else. The hardcore industrialist has no idea what the possible draw of actual ship PvP could be. And the PvE min/maxer gets his rush from popping that BS 3 seconds faster, and from running a mission the same way a conductor draws forth the best possible performance from their orchestra. As to "the most important", yeah, that's best for someone else to debate. This is a PvP-centric game, and PvP is a very important part of it. However, you look me in the eye and tell me that you could effectively PvP if no one was an industrialist. Or a mission runner. EVE is big enough that people can play as they see fit without directly interacting in a negative way with other people of wildly different playstyle. And it's also open enough that no one is forced into any one playstyle. And that's a good thing.
Mogrin Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:11:00 - [28] Edited by: Mogrin on 11/06/2007 05:10:55 Who cares about 0.0 anyways? The people who rule it have been playing eve since the beginning and they're too big of p*****s to fight each other so they all in one big ass alliance and pretty much pimp slap anyone who attempts to dislodge them. More isk, more skillpoints, more experience, more friends, so why care about it at all? They own that part of the game, plain and simple, join them or rent if you want a piece of their pie. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:43:00 - [29] You can not WIN EVE. If they rule everthing then they are the next non NPC Concord, big deal. If we all joined with BoB would we all win today, no. It would just be more organized and less fun. Do what you want to EVE, as long as nothing fun is taken away and anything new is fun. A Minmater City... Cool! [url="http:/
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.06.11 06:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Mogrin Edited by: Mogrin on 11/06/2007 05:10:55 Who cares about 0.0 anyways? The people who rule it have been playing eve since the beginning and they're too big of p*****s to fight each other so they all in one big ass alliance and pretty much pimp slap anyone who attempts to dislodge them. More isk, more skillpoints, more experience, more friends, so why care about it at all? They own that part of the game, plain and simple, join them or rent if you want a piece of their pie. Very well stated. Its something that seems to be escaping the minds of most of the large 0.0 alliances and the devs themselves. You often hear them complain about how empty it is in 0.0, but they don't seem to understand that emptiness is largely caused by their own policies. I fully agree with the OP too though, there is almost no chance for a startup corp/alliance to make any real headway into 0.0. I've talked to some relatively new alliances/corps. Folks that would like to get into 0.0. However they are frustrated by the politics of it, noone seeming willing to let them rent space, or making it so expensive that no start up corp/alliance could afford it. Its also laughable that some say well build up and take your on 0.0 space, as you point out in your post that just isn't possible in EVE today. I believe the changes in Revelations 2 is going to make it even harder for corps and smaller/startup alliances to make it in 0.0. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs

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