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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
fatmanpaul
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:52:00 -
[1]
CCP Oneiromancer
"Posted - 2007.06.10 14:58:00 - [11] - Quote
Yes, this is going out into Revelations 2. And I don't see any major nerf anywhere. You can still use carriers for transport, you make it sound like that was their designed intended use and we're nerfing that.
People have been asking for the ability to store loaded ships at ship maintenance bays and arrays and a change was made to allow that. Assembled containers and courier packages are the only restricted items that cannot be in an assembled ship inside a ship maintenance bay/array, in order to prevent exploits."
All I can say is OMG, if you do not have a Titan Jump Bridge for Freighters; carriers will loss a third of their current load capicity. Of course, logistics just got tilted in favor of the most power alliances. That issue aside, my head is twisting with the thought of all those lose items in my cargo. This is a very unfriendly change to players who are carrier pilots. I do not want to sort corp mate items in my hold! I want their items in a named can! I do not want to play ""carrier simcity" hours and hours organizing and distributing items to corp mates.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:56:00 -
[2]
I'm still waiting for an Industrial Capital to be made, with enough cargo space to jump stuff around. Would make far more sense for an Indy Capital to be used as carrier mule than a fighter Carrier.
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Jeff Anderson
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:59:00 -
[3]
There is already a thread about it in the dev forums
Sig: Miners supply the ore that the Industrialists use to build the ships you PVP/E with so please think of them as your ship blows up from the enhanced PVP/E in EVE. We know CCP hasn't.
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 11:59:00 -
[4]
i dont see the huge big deal honestly...
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 13:52:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Splagada
i dont see the huge big deal honestly...
You don't run POSes then obviously
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.11 13:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Splagada
i dont see the huge big deal honestly...
POS fuel = very big.
Transporting by freighter = very dangerous.
Transporting by carrier = very, very time consuming and more expensive, but much safer and a much lower manpower requirement.
Removing GSCs from carriers removes approximately 30% of their haulage capacity. Believe it or not, the majority of carriers in 0.0 are used as glorified haulers. While not by intentional design, this is their primary role, and through POS fuel hauling and mineral compression, they prop the 0.0 markets and empires up. CCP just made that 30% harder.
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Talkie Toaster
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:21:00 -
[7]
then you would hope they are adding something to freighters
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Talkie Toaster
then you would hope they are adding something to freighters
That wouldnt make any difference. Short of another ship being added with the jump range of a carrier capable of holding 50k+m3 of space, carriers will still be the ship of choice for general 0.0 haulage. Freighters just require too much escorting for use outside of one-off ops.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Talkie Toaster
then you would hope they are adding something to freighters
That wouldnt make any difference. Short of another ship being added with the jump range of a carrier capable of holding 50k+m3 of space, carriers will still be the ship of choice for general 0.0 haulage. Freighters just require too much escorting for use outside of one-off ops.
/me shudders thinking back to 10-20+ freighters and 40-70 escorts in ASCN a year ago...
Personally I don't even understand why we have to bother with haulers at all. As if it shouldn't be possible to haul big containers with stuff directly into the ship maintenance array. Storage space is storage space, why does the system have to decide for us whether it can take cargo or only assembled ships?
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Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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Oosel
Nightmare Holdings
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:36:00 -
[10]
what ever happened to the promise of interbus and npc long haul
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Ashmael
Clan LoKi
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:39:00 -
[11]
You lose a carrier every time you take 1 out anyway ElmLicker 
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Kuseka Adama
Gallente
WOLFPACK DELTA
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Posted - 2007.06.11 14:52:00 -
[12]
This is somewhat disturbing. But it would be easily fixable if they make the changes that MUST be made to freighters.
1 limit them to low sec like any other capital (use good haulers to load them! :P)
2 give the freighters JUMP DRIVES!
End result Carrier role moves back into an offensive stance rather than a logistic one and everyone ends up happy... (except for carebears) well almost everyone.
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Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.11 15:00:00 -
[13]
WTB: High end minerals/alloys from Drone regions =D
Originally by: Janu Hull
Nothing says gritty cynicism like a 1 ISK note wedged between a pair of silicone enhanced knockers.
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Christari Zuborov
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Posted - 2007.06.11 15:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 11/06/2007 15:26:31
Jump drive cargo hauling is bad.
The jump drive ability lowers the ships exposure to chance encounters. We need more encounters for larger vessels as an ISK sink to counter all the ISK being generated. We need more demand for high end minerals to bring players to 0.0 space.
Yeah it's a PITA to escort and organize, but doing this in another manner is counter intuitive to MMO game play.
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Ifni
Applied Eugenics
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Posted - 2007.06.11 15:49:00 -
[15]
Ah, the old risk/reward argument.
You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough. |
Frederick Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
The jump drive ability lowers the ships exposure to chance encounters. We need more encounters for larger vessels as an ISK sink to counter all the ISK being generated. We need more demand for high end minerals to bring players to 0.0 space.
Contrary to popular belief, ship destruction is an ISK faucet, not a sink. If I give you ISK and you give me a ship which I then get blown up, the total amount of ISK in the system does not change. I then collect on my insurance and the amount of ISK in the system goes up. Ship destruction is a mineral sink which combined with rising amounts of ISK in the system leads to inflation. We should therefore remove insurance. But that's another rant.
Anyways, with regards to the OP. Jump hauling was never intended, it should have always been an assumption that CCP would act to try and curb it. It hasn't been prevented, just made a little harder work.
In exchange we are given two new tools, firstly we can unload freighters at POS. Second we can set up POS-POS jumpbridges to ease the burden of moving said freighters around. Adapt with the changes or be surplanted by those who can.
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Baccala
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: fatmanpaul
CCP Oneiromancer
"Posted - 2007.06.10 14:58:00 - [11] - Quote
...in order to prevent exploits."
What exactly is being exploited? They are CARRIERS! duh.
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Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Baccala
Originally by: fatmanpaul
CCP Oneiromancer
"Posted - 2007.06.10 14:58:00 - [11] - Quote
...in order to prevent exploits."
What exactly is being exploited? They are CARRIERS! duh.
Does typing it in bold change its meaning? In the context of eve, Carriers are designed to transport ships and drones. Stopping you putting cargo containers inside said ships hardly stops them from doing this. Sure if you want to use a carrier for transporting cargo you're now going to have to make more trips and it will take longer to load up, but hey - its not like that was ever their intended function.
Personally I've always found it a bit wierd that a 3,000 m3 container can hold 3,900 m3 of cargo
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:30:00 -
[19]
I am only going to point out the irony, that somehow people in empire are supposed to use transport ships, when they really have littel options to defend them even and they are suicide ganked left and right, and yet here we are in 0.0 and people feel they should enjoy the privledge of easy safe transport. The reality is nothing with change motherships will still be used to safely bring fuel you just need an extra trip or 2.
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Frederick Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Baccala
What exactly is being exploited? They are CARRIERS! duh.
Correct, they carry drones, fighters and ships.
When was the last time you saw an aircraft carrier being used to move a hundred thousand tons of oil for the domestic market?
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Frederick Lyrus
Originally by: Baccala
What exactly is being exploited? They are CARRIERS! duh.
Correct, they carry drones, fighters and ships.
When was the last time you saw an aircraft carrier being used to move a hundred thousand tons of oil for the domestic market?
When was the last time you saw an oil tanker in open waters being attacked by pirates or other navies? This isn't RL and the comparison doesn't apply.
You can be pretty sure that if in today's world open seas were a "0.0" where everyone and anyone would attack you, you would have the military use their carriers to haul oil for their fuel reserves (screw the domestic market, we are talking about military supplies here)
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:43:00 -
[22]
I agree that the Carrier was never intended to be a jump freighter, which is its most common use.
Therefore this change is probably a good one, to shift its role back to combat, as it should be.
The large alliances will probably build the POS modules for jumping so they will be able to create networks that will help them manage logistics (though these will also be prime targets of raids I think)
Additionally you could use a Titan to jump bridge freighters if you really wanted to, BoB does that now, and I assume the other alliances' titans are also used that way. (Keep in mind though that if the titan uses its doomsday device after Rev2 it can't jump for 10 minutes...which means that this might become dangerous to do or at least you'll have to include in the jumpbridge some combat ships)
Idea: Treaties
Idea: Jump Rigs |
Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: hydraSlav
Originally by: Frederick Lyrus
Originally by: Baccala
What exactly is being exploited? They are CARRIERS! duh.
Correct, they carry drones, fighters and ships.
When was the last time you saw an aircraft carrier being used to move a hundred thousand tons of oil for the domestic market?
When was the last time you saw an oil tanker in open waters being attacked by pirates or other navies? This isn't RL and the comparison doesn't apply.
You can be pretty sure that if in today's world open seas were a "0.0" where everyone and anyone would attack you, you would have the military use their carriers to haul oil for their fuel reserves (screw the domestic market, we are talking about military supplies here)
Maybe they would. Wouldn't be very effecient though would it? It's the same with eve. Carriers can still move fuel, but now it's more of a trade-off. As it stands, I know the USA has transport ships ready loaded to move battalions of tanks to a conflict zone as and when needed. Aircraft carriers just can't do that. Said transport ships usually have an escort fleet with them though and they watch the route to try and spot potential danger.
[sarcasm]If only Eve had something similar. Maybe a small fleet of battleships escorting some form of freighter and other transports with maybe a covops or two scouting ahead and behind.... What's that you say? You can do that in Eve?!?!?!
[/sarcasm]
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Xalorn
Butcherbirds
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Posted - 2007.06.11 17:55:00 -
[24]
This change coupled with the 'can't warp to zero to POSs' is going to make a lot of logistics people very unhappy.
Citing 'POS jumpbridges' & 'industrial carriers' is a waste of time. Who knows when & if those items will be released. Not to mention nobody knows the full details on how those new systems are suppose to work.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xalorn
This change coupled with the 'can't warp to zero to POSs' is going to make a lot of logistics people very unhappy.
Citing 'POS jumpbridges' & 'industrial carriers' is a waste of time. Who knows when & if those items will be released. Not to mention nobody knows the full details on how those new systems are suppose to work.
POS Jumpbridges are slated for Revelations 2, they've already mentioned it in a blog, think it was TomB's most recent blog. (Though it might have been one by Oveur)
Idea: Treaties
Idea: Jump Rigs |
Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Xalorn
This change coupled with the 'can't warp to zero to POSs' is going to make a lot of logistics people very unhappy.
Citing 'POS jumpbridges' & 'industrial carriers' is a waste of time. Who knows when & if those items will be released. Not to mention nobody knows the full details on how those new systems are suppose to work.
Jump bridges are currently on SiSi for testing and should be in with Rev 2 (same time as the changes to GCS in carriers). As for the warp to zero on POS. I've heard rumours about this on Sisi, but I can still warp to zero to my own corps POS. Not had a chance to check with another corp in my alliances POS, but I suspect that might work as well. I have a feeling that the code on it isn't fully finished yet but the intention is that if you're not in the right alliance and don't have the password then you don't get to warp in. We'll see once it's fully finished.
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Morrganna
Minmatar
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:09:00 -
[27]
ok to the OP uhh as far as jumpin mods and what nots for corp members if your say jumping from a 0.0 station to empire there is such a thing as a courrier contract which puts all of the stuff they want moved into a neat little box. when you get it there jus put it into your items and deliver. no can required
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SamuraiJack
Caldari
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:15:00 -
[28]
Good luck if you are a small allaince/corp. The balance is
shifted to the big boys.
WTG CCP.
/sarcastic.
SJ.
CLS CEO, Valainloce Executor and Standings Director
=-
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UGWidowmaker
Caldari
Setenta Corp
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 18:19:00 -
[29]
lol motherships also are great haulers and are also most used for this task... Titans are also most used to make jump briegde for the freighters. thats how it works. i dont get why ccp just dont make a freighter kind of ships wich can jump would make it so damn much more simple. OR even more fun idea was to make npc travel to outposts with stuff. FUN!!! they would ofc be heavily guarded.
damn ccp bout time u make the stuff as it should be..
Sig removed, Email mods@ccpgames to find out why -Scyd
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.11 19:03:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Splagada on 11/06/2007 19:02:30
for trading carriers are almost impossible to fill unless you get to spend 5B on each purchase round
for pos fueling, it's really fun that most transports are totally ignored because heck, better use a carrier
if you removed the ability to use carrier to fuel pos'es, i bet 10M isk that you'd see hundreds of new free systems in 0.0. sovs would drop like dresses on prom nights
using the ships designed for it (transports) just dont work for pos'es. but pos'es would just become EVEN more annoying lol
and that comes from another of those ppl using carriers to fuel poses :p
but well it's 30% loss... not THAT much
can still get a transport AND a bustard lol... can still haul about 60k m3 per jump
or use your moros ! 7 lows!
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