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Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
53
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Posted - 2012.01.03 22:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm going to keep this fairly simple and straight forward.
This IS NOT a bond offering. I am not looking for investors yet.
What I want is information regarding : what would you need as information from me, what should I provide, etc etc.
I currently produce between 6-7 Supercarriers per month. 4 of them are constantly sold to a private buyer (Nullsec alliance), 2 to 3 of them come up as sales here on the forums about once a month.
I own all the BPOs for the SCs and the components.
I am getting a bit bored by it, and I am considering expanding. I don't want to sell this, I want to keep it running but develop into something else.
There are T2 ship BPOs that I am interested in buying, but if I do so it will lock up all my liquidity and might actually end up killing my operations.
I would be looking for a 120 bil Isk bond.
Before any concerns over security of investments are raised, what I would propose is that the BPOs be held by a third party such as RAW or whoever the investors feel is adequate. That third party would join my production corporation with an alt I suppose, and would hold onto the BPOs, while I get copy and production access off them. Basically, the investment would be 100% safe with these kind of conditions.
I have not decided a ROI yet, and this thread is kind of for that too. What kind of ROI would investors be looking for if this bond was to be offered, considering that it would pretty much be 100% safe as in the event of me failing to keep producing, the T2 BPO will be held by a third party, and we all know these BPOs do nothing but gain value over time.
Any questions and comments are welcome in this thread.
ONCE and IF I feel enough points have been raised and answered, I will open a new thread purely for the offering purpose, along with investor information. |
Gatan Hahran
Brukterer
DUCT TAPE UNION
73
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Posted - 2012.01.04 00:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Levija Saplina wrote: what I would propose is that the BPOs be held by a third party such as RAW or whoever the investors feel is adequate.
...
Basically, the investment would be 100% safe with these kind of conditions.
ehehehe.. eh..
Ok the serious part:
Levija Saplina wrote: What I want is information regarding : what would you need as information from me, what should I provide, etc etc.
Since you ask for 120b you should provide all the information you can, as long as it does not harm your business. Maybe you want not everyone to know where you produce your caps. Maybe you could ask VV for an audit?
But that would only be about your ability to do what you claim you do, not about trust.
If a 3rd party holds the values then the 3rd party would be the object of interest and inspection.
|
Jes Visuit
Private Investment Holdings Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.01.04 03:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also bear in mind that T2 BPOs are priced such that it usually takes at least 12 months of non stop production to earn back the original investment in the BPOs through production profits.
So another question is whether your investors as a whole are happy for you to hold on to 120 bil for that length of time, and what sort of mitigation is in place against lol burnout / boredom. (Of course there is always the option to simply sell the bpos and repay the bond, as, like you said, T2 BPOs tend to hold value fairly well, but then that would result in the bond ending prematurely or you having to pay the remaining interest out of your own pocket). |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
15
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Posted - 2012.01.04 13:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Would you be willing to accept the entire 120b from one person and have that person provide you with the production corp/facilities without any 3rd party involvement? |
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 14:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Would you be willing to accept the entire 120b from one person and have that person provide you with the production corp/facilities without any 3rd party involvement?
That's a possibility I have to consider.
But I like the fact that I own my own production facilities, that I have someone I trust completely who handles the transports and logistics if it's needed etc.
So I need to think about it, but if I had to be honest it would rather be unlikely.
On another note, no one has yet addressed the issue of the ROI %. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
108
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Levija Saplina wrote:
On another note, no one has yet addressed the issue of the ROI %.
It's usually the investee who announces (often to a private party, i.e. an auditor) an expected ROI and based on that, the interest he's ready to pay.
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Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Levija Saplina wrote:
On another note, no one has yet addressed the issue of the ROI %.
It's usually the investee who announces (often to a private party, i.e. an auditor) an expected ROI and based on that, the interest he's ready to pay.
I agree with that, but since I am not too sure what kind of interest is usual for such a bond, I am interested in getting some advice.
The ROI in terms of production and sales on market of my produced goods, I have all that figured out. The question here is about what ROI would the investors expect.
Some kind of -2/+2 fork. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
108
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I edited my above post but by that time you replied already.
The rates change a lot depending on if you have collateral, how long the bond lasts, what 3rd party (if any) service you'll use.
I.e. if you were fully collateralized and using very trusted 3rd party you could get like <= 4 percent a month.
Edit:
Look at this 120B bond, managed by Grendell (free advertising!). |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
"Levija Saplina" wrote:But I like the fact that I own my own production facilities
In order for the 3rd party to work they would have to become the CEO of your production corp and strip your roles and the roles of all other corp members down to a limited set. So you will have effectively handed over ownership of your production facilities to the 3rd party, at least for the duration of the bond.
This assumes you find a suitable 3rd party willing to perform this function and at an acceptable price. The 3rd party would have to spare an alt for the job or sub another account, whereas using the 3rd party's own production corp removes the need (and therefore the cost) of that.
Levija Saplina wrote:I am not too sure what kind of interest is usual for such a bond, I am interested in getting some advice.
Speak to Grendell. |
Roguehalo
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
6
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
"Basically, the investment would be 100% safe with these kind of conditions."
Will you be hiring Shar Tegral as a trustee? 
|
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 15:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Roguehalo wrote:"Basically, the investment would be 100% safe with these kind of conditions." Will you be hiring Shar Tegral as a trustee?
It worked well for me.
|
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Roguehalo wrote:"Basically, the investment would be 100% safe with these kind of conditions." Will you be hiring Shar Tegral as a trustee?
Who to hire for such kind of services is going to be up to the investors in the end. I suspect that people with these amounts of money will already have a list of people they would want to trust with these kind of investments. |
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.04 16:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ok, can be closed and left alone.
After this thread, I received a certain number of emails.
I have found a private investor and everything will be handled with him.
So no IPO.
But thanks for all the questions and precisions guys. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave.
GIANTSBANE.
194
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 06:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:It worked well for me.
New MD probably doesn't remember T4U 
Damn nature, you scary! |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
16
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Posted - 2012.01.05 09:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:It worked well for me. New MD probably doesn't remember T4U
Yes, I noticed that.
Bad Bobby wrote:Would you be willing to accept the entire 120b from one person and have that person provide you with the production corp/facilities without any 3rd party involvement?
Levija Saplina wrote:I have found a private investor and everything will be handled with him.
|
DelBoy Trades
Enslave.
GIANTSBANE.
194
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 13:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:DelBoy Trades wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:It worked well for me. New MD probably doesn't remember T4U Yes, I noticed that. Bad Bobby wrote:Would you be willing to accept the entire 120b from one person and have that person provide you with the production corp/facilities without any 3rd party involvement? Levija Saplina wrote:I have found a private investor and everything will be handled with him.
Scamtacular.
Damn nature, you scary! |
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 14:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
DelBoy Trades wrote:
Scamtacular.
As much as I enjoy your enthusiasm for bad posting and random comments, I can't see how an investor buying a T2 BPO and holding on to it himself can be labelled as a scam, especially since I will be divulging the location of my mothership production facilities to him so that he can come be the CEO of my production corp. |
Belloche
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
18
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Levija Saplina wrote:DelBoy Trades wrote:
Scamtacular.
As much as I enjoy your enthusiasm for bad posting and random comments, I can't see how an investor buying a T2 BPO and holding on to it himself can be labelled as a scam, especially since I will be divulging the location of my mothership production facilities to him so that he can come be the CEO of my production corp.
LOL,
You missed DelBoy's point. He tried to warn you about Bad Bobby. If BB is your lone investor and you make him CEO and give up all your roles you are asking to be scammed of ALL your corp assets and isk. T4U is a reference to Titans for you where BB scammed ALOT of isk including a number of titan bpo's. Bad Bobby, don't you have enough isk by now??
|
Countesss
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Levija Saplina wrote:DelBoy Trades wrote:
Scamtacular.
As much as I enjoy your enthusiasm for bad posting and random comments, I can't see how an investor buying a T2 BPO and holding on to it himself can be labelled as a scam, especially since I will be divulging the location of my mothership production facilities to him so that he can come be the CEO of my production corp.
If you can't figure out how you can be scammed here, you deserve it really...
|
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
54
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 15:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oh, BB is not my investor. I don't know him and would never reveal my production facilities to someone I don't know.
The investor is someone who regularly buys my SCs and who is interested in the production of the new T2 ships I will be running.
Good news is, his alliance protects my installations in the event of someone finding them out and wanting to put a thorn in my paw.
And I do realize how I can be scammed, except it will not happen. Well nothing can be claimed with such certainty but the people who will back me up on this have literally no interest in scamming me considering that I supply them with something that they don't want to bother building themselves. They hate the logistics of it etc. And I have access to very good supplies of cheap mineral that they don't.
This is one of these cases where the big wolf has all its interests in protecting and helping the small sheep. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
180
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 15:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
But you ..... i mean he .... you can't be ...
Ow nevermind not my business any way , carrry on  |
Countesss
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 16:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Ow nevermind not my business any way , carrry on
My thoughts exactly. |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 15:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
If the production has to be done in alliance space, this is probably the only option. I would have been happy to fill the bond and hold the collateral but there is no way a third party is going to be happy holding that collateral in the middle of potentially hostile space and in a station that they can be locked out of.
RAW |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
181
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 16:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:If the production has to be done in alliance space, this is probably the only option. I would have been happy to fill the bond and hold the collateral but there is no way a third party is going to be happy holding that collateral in the middle of potentially hostile space and in a station that they can be locked out of.
RAW
Oh my god , it's alive ... |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.01.06 16:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:If the production has to be done in alliance space, this is probably the only option. I would have been happy to fill the bond and hold the collateral but there is no way a third party is going to be happy holding that collateral in the middle of potentially hostile space and in a station that they can be locked out of.
RAW Oh my god , it's alive ...
o/
Just this account so I could finish off some prior consultancy commitments (RAW's has been unsubbed for a while now). I check the forum about once or twice a month to see how Elise's prediction that the investment market would collapse without me is coming along. Hopefully I can get back to the game in another 7-8 months but it all depends on work. All is well with you, I hope? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 17:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:o/ Just this account so I could finish off some prior consultancy commitments (RAW's has been unsubbed for a while now). I check the forum about once or twice a month to see how Elise's prediction that the investment market would collapse without me is coming along. Hopefully I can get back to the game in another 7-8 months but it all depends on work. All is well with you, I hope?
Hi mate, long time no see! |
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