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Ishtar: Speed or tank?

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Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:23:00 - [1] Looking to solo in this drone boat. I've seen some people suggesting NOS and tank for close up work and others swearing blind that fitting speed mods and rails is the way to go while keeping at range. What's the general feeling here? CP
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:25:00 - [2] Nano it, if you want to tank, get the myrmidon. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:28:00 - [3] Do nanos still work after the speed nerf or would a combo of over overdrives and inertia stabs be more effective?
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:30:00 - [4] mmmh high: whatever, probe launcher? mid: mwd, 24k+ scram, injector, 2x lse II or 2x damps low: 3x overdrive II, 2x istab rigs: 2x poly (mass reduction). hf. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
VaderDSL Caldari Incoherent Inc	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Ryysa mmmh high: whatever, probe launcher? mid: mwd, 24k+ scram, injector, 2x lse II or 2x damps low: 3x overdrive II, 2x istab rigs: 2x poly (mass reduction). hf. Very nice setup :) I remember on the test server recently, I was in a speed oneiros, remote tanking a nano ishtar (against nighthawks) and also repairing his drones as well
Almarez Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:58:00 - [6] I would tank so you can lock down the hostile. I wish I had a sig but they made me get rid of it. That poor little old lady from the Burger King commercials must be turning over in her grave.
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:01:00 - [7] Edited by: tarin adur on 13/06/2007 21:00:19 Nano it...Speed is your tank. Ryysa got it thought, Myrm if you want to tank it.
Bazman Caldari Werda Fookarwii	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:11:00 - [8] I can't help but cry, nanoism is going too far :( -----
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:26:00 - [9] OK, how does this sound? HIGHS 3 x 150mm Railgun II (Spike) MIDS 10MN MWD II Warp Disruptor II Medium Cap Booster 2 x Large Shield Extender II LOWS 2 x Overdrive Injector 1 x I Stab 1 x Nanofiber II 1 x Medium Armour Repper II and a bunch of drones obviously. I wanted the armor rep on the cos I figured there was a lot of cap going to waste and it's nice to have it for emergencies. I also want a balance between speed and inertia cos I like to get away from low sec gate camps (outlaw).
tarin adur Gallente Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Bazman I can't help but cry, nanoism is going too far :( Unfortunately The Eve players have discovered that speed > everything e.g. the vagabond
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.13 21:58:00 - [11] Originally by: tarin adur Originally by: Bazman I can't help but cry, nanoism is going too far :( Unfortunately The Eve players have discovered that speed > everything e.g. the vagabond Not just that. Gallente BCs and Command Ships make the HACs practically obselete. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.13 22:00:00 - [12] Guess I'm in the minority on this one: tank. and lots of it. All i use for nos is 2 smalls. [09:47:39] LancerSix > I bet we confuse a lot of people, we're mercs who don't get paid, we're pirates with positive sec status
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.06.13 22:26:00 - [13] I would say nano. If you want tank go for myrmidom. Fielding 2 wave of heavy + light... The hardest part is the meds, what to do with those: shieldextend or damp. Considering you die if you take any damage...i would say 2* damp... You need a 25km+ disrupter though. 28 km minimum imo, just so these nosboats dont get you. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 14:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Complex Potential Edited by: Complex Potential on 13/06/2007 21:33:10 OK, how does this sound? HIGHS 3 x 150mm Railgun II (Spike) Might have tracking issues. Quote: MIDS 10MN MWD II Warp Disruptor II Medium Cap Booster 2 x Large Shield Extender II OK. Damps may be better for keeping drones alive. LSE II's will give bigger error margin. Quote: LOWS 2 x Overdrive Injector 1 x I Stab 1 x Nanofiber II 1 x Medium Armour Repper II I did give you a perfectly viable lowslot setup. If you have NO idea why I gave it, then just don't fly this ship since you will die anyway. Also, you are trying to shield and armor tank at same time, this is just silly. Quote: I wanted the armor rep on there cos I figured there was a lot of cap going to waste and it's nice to have it for emergencies. Actually cap is used to run your mwd all the time. Quote: I also want a balance between speed and inertia cos I like to get away from low sec gate camps (outlaw). Err, 3x overdrives, 2x inertia stabs and 2x mass reduction rigs gives the best speed:inertia ratio you can get. Do you even have a clue how it works at all? EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:30:00 - [15] Thanks for the advice (despite the remarks). If the trick is to permarun the MWD that changes things obviously. But I dont like relying on the injector for keeping it going. I've found that 3 cap rechargers in the mids will let me hold cap at 35% This means giving up the LSE or damps but it would allow for permanent running. Also, I'd rather not rig it atm, so a Nano in place of an inertia stab gives a bit more speed for me.
Kruel Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Complex Potential Thanks for the advice (despite the remarks). If the trick is to permarun the MWD that changes things obviously. But I dont like relying on the injector for keeping it going. I've found that 3 cap rechargers in the mids will let me hold cap at 35% This means giving up the LSE or damps but it would allow for permanent running. Also, I'd rather not rig it atm, so a Nano in place of an inertia stab gives a bit more speed for me. I prefer non-injected setups as well since I usually end up fighting for a while vs. multiple targets. Hint: Try 1 large cap batter II and 1 cap recharger II, instead of 3 cap rechargers. Then you can fit a single LSE on there. Most people don't ever consider using LCBs, but they do wonders to the recharge rate on cruisers. Being over-sized, percentage-based mods, they work much like large shield extenders do on BCs. So along with that you've got 3 overdrives, 2 inertias in the lows, polycarb rigs... a damn fast ship with some wicked damage.
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Complex Potential Thanks for the advice (despite the remarks). If the trick is to permarun the MWD that changes things obviously. But I dont like relying on the injector for keeping it going. I've found that 3 cap rechargers in the mids will let me hold cap at 35% This means giving up the LSE or damps but it would allow for permanent running. Also, I'd rather not rig it atm, so a Nano in place of an inertia stab gives a bit more speed for me. I prefer non-injected setups as well since I usually end up fighting for a while vs. multiple targets. Hint: Try 1 large cap batter II and 1 cap recharger II, instead of 3 cap rechargers. Then you can fit a single LSE on there. Most people don't ever consider using LCBs, but they do wonders to the recharge rate on cruisers. Being over-sized, percentage-based mods, they work much like large shield extenders do on BCs. So along with that you've got 3 overdrives, 2 inertias in the lows, polycarb rigs... a damn fast ship with some wicked damage. That is a great idea and you're right, it holds nicely :) Cheers.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 16:57:00 - [18] Edited by: Ryysa on 14/06/2007 17:00:30 Originally by: Complex Potential Thanks for the advice (despite the remarks). If the trick is to permarun the MWD that changes things obviously. But I dont like relying on the injector for keeping it going. I've found that 3 cap rechargers in the mids will let me hold cap at 35% Have you ever done pvp at all? ever? Ofcourse you need injector, otherwise anything with nos that you get too close to (and no, 3km is not enough playground, even with faction disruptor), will instantly shut you off. Cap rechargers are for PvE. Why do you want to fly this ship anyway? Because it looks cool? Maybe you should start with something like a frigate, to get a grasp about pvp? Unless you have loads of money and don't mind to replace your hacs often. Speedships require skill, without skill you will die to the first half-competent group that knows what it's doing. Quote: This means giving up the LSE or damps but it would allow for permanent running. Also, I'd rather not rig it atm, so a Nano in place of an inertia stab gives a bit more speed for me. If you don't fit any rigs, then fit 3x od II, 2x nano II. Originally by: Kruel I prefer non-injected setups as well since I usually end up fighting for a while vs. multiple targets. 1. You fly a curse. 2. Especially when fighting vs multiple targets, there's a HIGH chance you get nosed, and a HIGH chance that something will be hitting you, so you need LSE's for the buffer or damps to get rid of them locking you. AND ofcourse injector to provide protection from NOS. P.S. anyone that fits a cap recharger for pvp on anything other than a capital ship or ceptor should uninstall eve imo. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:08:00 - [19] Ooooh, I want to fit those poly rigs and go with the 3 overdrives and 2 I stabs but they're over 50mil where I am. Are they cheaper anywhere else? (Jita or Rens maybe)
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Complex Potential on 14/06/2007 17:19:02 Ryysa, while I appreciate your advice, I'm just trying to think outside the box here. I know how to pvp, I've been doing it for a while. You dont get to -9.4 without knowing a thing or two. Incidently, do you have to be quite so arrogant in the way you talk to people. It costs nothing to be nice
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:36:00 - [21] It takes fewer muscles to frown than to smile Anyway, personally I would use 2 LSE2. 2 damps do not THAT much vs multiple people and vs single ones you should be fine simply with outganking them wit your drones. You can carry a complete replacment with you, too, so you do not have to mother them as much as with the curse. Nvermind that you can target heavy drones rather fast even with damps.
Kruel Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kruel I prefer non-injected setups as well since I usually end up fighting for a while vs. multiple targets. 1. You fly a curse. 2. Especially when fighting vs multiple targets, there's a HIGH chance you get nosed, and a HIGH chance that something will be hitting you, so you need LSE's for the buffer or damps to get rid of them locking you. AND ofcourse injector to provide protection from NOS. P.S. anyone that fits a cap recharger for pvp on anything other than a capital ship or ceptor should uninstall eve imo. I see what you're saying about being nossed... and to be fair, I don't fly an Ishtar yet (I will this weekend). However, when flying my Curse I always use a 28k disrupt and have gotten really good at staying out of nos range. In fact I don't think I've been nossed by anything but another Curse since I started using faction disruptors, so I'm not really worried about battleships nossing me. Obviously it takes some careful piloting (no auto-orbiting), but I've come to really like perma-sustainable cap setups.
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:06:00 - [23] Edited by: Complex Potential on 14/06/2007 18:05:45 I can see the point about needing the cap booster. And I've checked, with 14 800s I can permarun everything for over 15 mins so that's fine. Will prolly go with LSEs in the mids too and the nanofiber + overdrive thing in the lows. Only question is, what do I do with all that spare PG and those high slots? (recon launcher wont fit)
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:06:00 - [24] Edited by: Ryysa on 14/06/2007 18:06:33 Originally by: Complex Potential Ryysa, while I appreciate your advice, I'm just trying to think outside the box here. I know how to pvp, I've been doing it for a while. You dont get to -9.4 without knowing a thing or two. There is a difference between thinking outside of the box and trying to shield- and armortank a ship, and also using cap rechargers in pvp. A very big difference. According to you, if I would fit arties with armortank on my vagabond I would be "thinking outside of the box". I'd say i'd be pretty damn dumb to do that. Just because you gank people at a gate in lowsec/belt who are mostly beginners or people who know nothing at pvp doesn't make you smart either. This is further reinforced by your "thinking outside of the box". Quote: Incidently, do you have to be quite so arrogant in the way you talk to people. It costs nothing to be nice Let's say it like this. I'm not your techsupport. You're not paying me anything, and if you make silly statements, then I will point out that you did and perhaps make fun of you for it. However, it's all meant strictly to make you understand that I think you are doing something really wrong. If you want someone to be nice to you, while you're talking complete bs, then you would need a person who either: 1) Doesn't listen to you. 2) Ignores you. 3) Is really stupid. 4) Is paid to like you. :) Originally by: Kruel However, when flying my Curse I always use a 28k disrupt and have gotten really good at staying out of nos range. Your curse also has the equivalent of at least 3 heavy nos on it. Quote: In fact I don't think I've been nossed by anything but another Curse since I started using faction disruptors, so I'm not really worried about battleships nossing me. Try to fight multiple, close together. Quote: Obviously it takes some careful piloting (no auto-orbiting), but I've come to really like perma-sustainable cap setups. You're not going to manage without autoorbit when you are fighting multiple targets with something like a curse and they have you locked and can do damage. You will not have constantly high transversal, and you won't be able to damp everything down. Also you will need to be as fast as possible while keeping your target locked down, meaning orbit is really the best way (Damp one, speedtank the rest). EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Complex Potential	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 14/06/2007 18:06:33 You're not paying me anything, and if you make silly statements, then I will point out that you did and perhaps make fun of you for it. How old are you? And have you thought about those high slots any more?
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:50:00 - [26] I don't see what my age has anything to do with this. I make fun of people all the time IRL, and they make fun of me, and we get along perfectly fine. Yet if you do this here, you're instantly arrogant, bla bla bla. Just cut off the drama, it's really useless. Regarding highslots. Only really useful thing would be a recon launcher, no idea if you will have the cpu for that. Other stuff, dunno... you could fit some small guns on there, no idea if they will track though, depends on how fast you are going (snake set or not etc). They most likely won't track with spike ammo though. Also, if you are going to be fitting guns, you should probably fit lasers, so you don't have to worry about reloads and stuff. It's not like you get a bonus to small hybrids anyway, medium ones can't track and you won't have the grid to fit them. Oh and... I'm 20 btw. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Kruel Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:56:00 - [27] With 3 Overdrives in the lows the cargo capacity is gimped to the point of being able to carry (I think) 7 cap 800s. That'll last what... 5-7 minutes max? That's considering MWD and Warp Disruptor are on constantly. So 2 LSE + injector that runs for 5 minutes, vs 1 LSE and not worrying about running out of cap (unless nossed). The answer seems simple for me. I wouldn't use 2x damps either. 3x damps or bust... which Ishtar doesn't have the mids for. Not to mention sucking even more cap. As for highs, I'd say a few small guns and a medium nos to keep tackling frigs at bay.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:57:00 - [28] Well, myrmi`s tank isnt a good reason to pick if your going solo. I fly myrmi and its very very slow. You wont make it out of any decent chase even with MWD and without plate. ---
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 18:59:00 - [29] use lh overdrives. And if you have half-decent skills you can pretty much perma run best named MWD, never mind domination, without wasting slots for capmods. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.14 19:21:00 - [30] You can sustain it for stupid amounts of time without :P EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Kruel Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.06.14 19:43:00 - [31] I've just got a thing for fully sustainable setups. I can't stand running out of cap charges in a fight and having to run.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Ryysa use lh overdrives. And if you have half-decent skills you can pretty much perma run best named MWD, never mind domination, without wasting slots for capmods. Still, if your talking about Myrmi it takes forever to reach 1km/sec speed, I reach it nearly in jump range after decloaking from jump. ---
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Ryysa use lh overdrives. They're slower than OD IIs. But have less a cargo penality. 3 OD2 = 50% of your original cargo, 3 LH OD = 60% of original your cargo. In exchange for having "only" 97.7% of the OD2 speed. Of cource, the best way are 3 domi ODs for 105.3% of the OD2 speed and the same cargo penality as LH. But that are around 200 mil.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.06.14 21:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Kruel I've just got a thing for fully sustainable setups. I can't stand running out of cap charges in a fight and having to run. qft. If I will fly HAC I will put all isk/skills possible to never fit injector. Its just a complete insert word here to go rearm after 2-3 fights. Even in low-sec you risk of dying to a gate camps while flying 10ish jumps off the route to find the darned charges. Then when you need to loot up that uber-lootage-wreck and bug out asap, you need to play around with your cargo, eject and put back charges to fill cargo with most expensive stuff. You cant take faction cloaks from loot as then your not combat ready at all with no charges. Solo + Hostile space + Injector = Even more chance to get killed on your way to resupply. ---

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