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fras
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:02:00 -
[1]
I know there have been a couple of posts recently about 425's sucking etc, but by the looks of it to me it's almost like there is a larger gun missing.
If you compare the stats of a megabeam laser and 425 they are quite similar, same damage modifier, similar ROF (425's are a bit slower), 425's have lower PW need but then Gallente ships have lower grid than Amarr.
This is fair enough, but the difference is Amarr have the Tachyon, and for Gallente the buck stops there. It's a similar if not quite as comparable story with Minmatar.
Both Amarr and Minmatar have the ability to combine skills, ship bonuses, and low slot mods to make slower harder hitting guns have a respectable ROF.
Am I looking at it too simplistically? Hows about a 500mm Railgun? 
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jarjar on 14/01/2004 13:06:26
There's a rumor about blasters going "Plasma" and railguns staying hybrid, IMHO this would be great.
Maybe we'll see additions such as a 350mm or 600mm railgun 
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:17:00 -
[3]
Hybrid weapons have no answer to 1400mm howitzers and tachyon lasers. Long range, big punch guns are favored in PvP, and hybrid has no gun like that, thus no one uses hybrids.
425mm Railgun is akin to a Megabeam and more in the class off a 1200mm projectile. All outclassed by the higher damage, longer range, big hitting battleship guns.
So yeah, railguns are missing a gun, a few guns actually, since railguns at the frigate level come in more variates, 150mm, 125mm, 75mm, ect.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Babar
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:43:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Both Amarr and Minmatar have the ability to combine skills, ship bonuses, and low slot mods to make slower harder hitting guns have a respectable ROF.
You mean.. Apoc has an amazing 7 low slots they could use to increase ROF, while the mega only has... 7...?
With ship bonuses factored in, 425mm on a mega outperforms tach on apoc in every respect, using half the cap. Poor gallente.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.01.14 13:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: fras on 14/01/2004 14:04:26
Quote:
Quote:
Both Amarr and Minmatar have the ability to combine skills, ship bonuses, and low slot mods to make slower harder hitting guns have a respectable ROF.
You mean.. Apoc has an amazing 7 low slots they could use to increase ROF, while the mega only has... 7...?
With ship bonuses factored in, 425mm on a mega outperforms tach on apoc in every respect, using half the cap. Poor gallente.
If that's the case then fair enough, looking at the figures though I don't see how it could be so. A tach fires every 12.5 seconds for a 4.25 modifier, and a 425 less than 3 seconds quicker for a 2.75 modifier. Added to that a tach has better tracking and range.
Also I realise that the Megathron has 7 low slots, the point I was trying to make was that other races could use them for making the harder hitting guns have a much faster ROF, Gallente do not have a harder hitting gun. Re-read what u quoted.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.01.14 15:04:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 14/01/2004 15:06:41
Quote:
If that's the case then fair enough, looking at the figures though I don't see how it could be so. A tach fires every 12.5 seconds for a 4.25 modifier, and a 425 less than 3 seconds quicker for a 2.75 modifier. Added to that a tach has better tracking and range.
Also I realise that the Megathron has 7 low slots, the point I was trying to make was that other races could use them for making the harder hitting guns have a much faster ROF, Gallente do not have a harder hitting gun. Re-read what u quoted.
Tachyon doesn't have better range than the 425mm. 425mm has the best default optimal. Tracking is 0.0005 better on the Tachyon.
Megathron can load one more Rail than the Apoc using skills only. They both have the same low slots.
Megathron's bonuses factored in + a good long range setup and skills the Rails outmatch the Tachyons.
Sure the Apoc might be getting better hits. The Mega will get more and faster though.
The problem with the Rails is that they are, according to the Devs, meant for Caldari ships.
However:
1) the Raven can only load max 4 turrets.
2) it's PWG is a joke.
Some might say that they have the med slots to overpower their foes by EW. But a jammed ship can still defend vs the Caldari's main weapon, missiles.
IMHO the problem lies with the ships meant to use it not with the Railgun itself.
P.S. : Megabeam, Dual 250mm, 1200mm - Tachyon, 425mm, 1400mm - Three short range turrets for every type of as well. Don't see anything missing.
Stop looking at the flashy Number in the Damage box and calculate total salvo damage and DoT.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
fras
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Posted - 2004.01.14 15:33:00 -
[7]
That was a good answer 
I was actually looking at it from my perspective, I currently have a Dominix and am considering moving over to an Armaggedon.
With lvl 4 engineering I can fit 4x425 on my Dom where on the Arma I can fit a couple of Tachyons and a couple of Megabeams. (maybe not the best setup for either but it was my base comparison point).
I'd worked out DOT and decided the arma did more damage and this was mostly down to having the option of a bigger gun
Maybe I should have considered the larger picture but I think it's a valid discussion point.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.01.15 05:34:00 -
[8]
I've struggled with 425mm rail's forever. With antimatter best range I can get is 31km with shots on average of 100-200, with the very very rare wrecks of 400. This using a megathron with two mag vortex and some decient skills.
Stick any other type of ammo in it and you may aswell just use a medium sized rail.
Right now 425mm rails are just longer range medium rails.
Seems like it would be the right weapon to use for a hybrid, but any of us who have used them know they are crap.
I don't think hybrids are missing a gun type, just the guns there are now need love...... bad.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.15 05:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: j0sephine on 15/01/2004 05:49:01
"I've struggled with 425mm rail's forever. With antimatter best range I can get is 31km with shots on average of 100-200, with the very very rare wrecks of 400. This using a megathron with two mag vortex and some decient skills."
... The railguns are not about 'big' hits. Their strentgh lies in many fast shots for those 100-200 hp that you mention. --;
(removed some stuff here which, after looking closer, didn't quite make sense :s
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.01.15 06:45:00 -
[10]
I propose the 650mm Railgun.
Damage Modifier 3.5
Rate of Fire: 12.5 seconds
Optimium Range 50km
Falloff Range: 25km
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
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"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.15 09:48:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I propose the 650mm Railgun.
Damage Modifier 3.5
Rate of Fire: 12.5 seconds
Optimium Range 50km
Falloff Range: 25km
That range is about the same as a 425mm railgun though. More like 60km optimal and 35km falloff. Railguns need to have super high optimals to make up for their low accuracy falloff and crappy damage.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2004.01.15 10:58:00 -
[12]
There are currently no 125mm-varient's for Cruisers and Battleships. There should be.
-Tyria.
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Cabadrin
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Posted - 2004.01.15 14:38:00 -
[13]
Once again, I fully aupport a cruiser-sized version of the 125mm cannon. 200mm and 350mm would fill a nice slot in the weapon architecture.
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Coalition Kill Board |
slothe
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Posted - 2004.01.15 15:16:00 -
[14]
tbh i think its fine how it is
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