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Good fight, bad Lag

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Sequin	Posted - 2004.01.14 22:45:00 - [1] Had an awesome fight in e02 tonite between Curse forces and us, Evol. Good fight all around, and that's not what this post is about. What it IS about is the horrendous, insane lag we all got during the battle. We had not more than 25-40 ships in the battle, if that combined, and yet the lag was worse than some of the 100 ship battles in fountain long ago. What happened? Why is it so laggy now? This lag was exactly what happened to m0o and FA a few days ago, and needs to be fixed. ^A Raem Civre Original EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original. [i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork! b] We are evil exploiters!
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.01.14 22:49:00 - [2] I'm not sure it is fixable... All online games suffer the same fate... It's just too bad, because I think CCP invisioned many large corp battles when designing this game, but that just does not seem possible... "Trust No One"
Dukath	Posted - 2004.01.14 23:30:00 - [3] I think that the LOD engine might be broken (if eve even has a lod engine). No matter how far i zoom out the ship keeps the same model. High polycount + lots of ships = lots of lag. Not that hard to comprehend. Another thing i noticed. If you first enter the battle there is no problem loading. However if you need to warp out and then back again its terrible. 1 to 2 minutes where you see the station or gate but nothing else. I suspect some new cache feature that is going fubar.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.01.14 23:55:00 - [4] Of course I can't be sure without knowing exactly how EVE is coded, but I doubt the graphics have much to do with network lag. It's just one of those problems with any online game, once you get a ton of stuff happening in the same place the lag will buid up, not much that can be done about it, especially with a game like EVE where all weapons and ship functions have to be coordinated with the server to prevent possible cheating. Only thing I could think of is to spread the load over multiple nodes, maybe even have a small cluster of backup servers for battles like this. When the cluster detects a large number of ships in the same area it transfers the responsibility of that entire system over to the backup nodes which then spread the load. Not an easy thing to implement but it's about all I can come up with.
Slagg	Posted - 2004.01.15 00:00:00 - [5] Depends on how the code is written. But if it takes to rewrite the whole source code to make servers clusterable system for system, they need to do it sooner or later, imho.
KIAHicks	Posted - 2004.01.15 00:37:00 - [6] Edited by: KIAHicks on 15/01/2004 00:38:24 Was it lag as in modules taking ages to activate, system taking ages to load in after jumping through gate etc or was it fps lag with very low frame rate? last big battle we had, we waited around 2-3 minutes loading at the stargate. Fortunatly the cloak timer didn't start until the system started "tuning in". The battle itself was fine for me, but others had very low frame rates. Maybe we need an object detail setting. When your about to go into a big battle you can use low detail, where the ship models could almost be boxes. (well not so low :P) Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
Gurthang	Posted - 2004.01.15 01:12:00 - [7] prolly has something to do with that neat fix everyone wanted so that battleships and other ships had their models visible further away than 15km because it wasnt realistic to have them go from an icon to a big ship model....
Jossh	Posted - 2004.01.15 01:36:00 - [8] The lag in FA has been REDICULOUS the last 2 days. I was in station and there were several ships outside and it would hardly load..took forever. I know its not me..T1..3.2 HT, 9800 XT, 2 gig ram, etc.. --Jossh
Rizzy	Posted - 2004.01.15 02:13:00 - [9] I dont think its a server problem but rather an enduser pc problem in computing everything whats going on, down to far too much for a pc to handle unless you have a high end computer...i get the same problem in Call of Duty, its another dx9 game with hot graphics, but when a lot of action is on the screen at one time the slow down comes in just the same. I would like to hear how much lag whether its internet or pc or who knows from people with high end pc's...please also state your specs and how good or bad it is for you.
Druanna	Posted - 2004.01.15 02:30:00 - [10] applying all those neat tweaks AmyTech had posted earlier would probably help. Eris said Tweaking XP has nothing to do with Eve though and deleted the post :(
NGRU Rix	Posted - 2004.01.15 03:32:00 - [11] The fact that the game is capped to 56k transmission rates doesn't help either. I think it was something alongs the lines of 5k a second or thereabouts.
Amorex	Posted - 2004.01.15 07:54:00 - [12] Edited by: Amorex on 15/01/2004 08:19:38 The problem with LAG is graphic engine. When I use no models and paticles my client work smooth and without any delay with more than 20 ships battle. But when I switching to normal, it's become laggy even when there are 5-7 ships that are firing. Eve's graphic engine need tweeking.
Slam	Posted - 2004.01.15 08:08:00 - [13] Edited by: Slam on 15/01/2004 08:08:38 Lag was also bad in Fountain tonight...we might have been 40-50 involved total.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.15 08:16:00 - [14] I had overall lag yesterday, modules not turning on etc. and i was not even near fountain/curse. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Dukath	Posted - 2004.01.15 10:15:00 - [15] Quote: Edited by: Amorex on 15/01/2004 08:19:38 The problem with LAG is graphic engine. When I use no models and paticles my client work smooth and without any delay with more than 20 ships battle. But when I switching to normal, it's become laggy even when there are 5-7 ships that are firing. Eve's graphic engine need tweeking. what? I must have missed that option. Please tell me how to run eve without models and (i assume) particles. I've been asking for an option like that for ages :(
Amorex	Posted - 2004.01.15 10:46:00 - [16] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Amorex on 15/01/2004 08:19:38 The problem with LAG is graphic engine. When I use no models and paticles my client work smooth and without any delay with more than 20 ships battle. But when I switching to normal, it's become laggy even when there are 5-7 ships that are firing. Eve's graphic engine need tweeking. what? I must have missed that option. Please tell me how to run eve without models and (i assume) particles. I've been asking for an option like that for ages :( Sorry but this is a secret, also there a bugs with the distance when I use "model off" and with torpedo hit. Why it so I don't know. I have test it in large battle in Fountain when there was 40 BS's with drones out, firing and warping, long befor castor, and I insure you that there NO connection lag, but graphical.
Artean	Posted - 2004.01.15 11:09:00 - [17] Could we have an acknowledgement from a dev stating that lag is a problem in big battles (hell, my comp* lags even with 4-5 players outside stations and jump gates + a couple of npc ships) and that this will be looked at? *AMD 1900+, 512 RAM, ATI 9600 pro, 10 Mbit broadband.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.01.15 11:32:00 - [18] Quote: I think that the LOD engine might be broken (if eve even has a lod engine). No matter how far i zoom out the ship keeps the same model. There's some sort of LOD engine in there, when you approach a gate with CONCORD BSes floating around you see them pop straight from being an icon to what (appears to be) the full detailed model. As you say when zooming in and out you can't really see any difference in quality when looking at player ships and also the lack of any graphics setting to select the biggest LOD being displayed all points to there being no multi-LOD stuff going on. Either that or it's so fantastically implemented that you can't tell of course. I suspect that most lag is caused either directly or indirectly on the client side. _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!

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