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Error404
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:21:00 -
[1]
It's just tooo laggy it's like the new Yulai (think thats the name, last time i played was years ago) hmmmmm. People say just don't go to Jita but i have to atm and it's just very annoying and unacceptable atm.
I would want a 2nd server but i doubt that'll happen so please just fix Jita.
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Marquis Dean
Demise and Vestige
9th Fleet
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:23:00 -
[2]
Jita isn't broken.
Please explain to me how a second server with just Jita on it would work.
---
 Originally by: Wild Rho
I'm having a hard time getting over the irony of spelling "dumb" wrong.
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The Pointless
Gallente
Plastic Toys
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:23:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Jita isn't broken.
Please explain to me how a second server with just Jita on it would work.
Dammit, you beat me to it! 
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"Breaking News! The Pointless hates GIFs!" |
Dirth moron
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:23:00 -
[4]
Yah, must remember not to log out in jita again 
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Peter Armstrong
Caldari
5punkorp
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:25:00 -
[5]
umm no! how about dont go to Jita in the first place? or is that too hard! I mean i sick of people complaining about jita! Simple answer dont GO THERE!!
------------------------------------
It's all part of the Experiance!
"IAC: Our wrecks will blot out the sun. BUM: Then we will loot in the shade." :) |
Cabadrin
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:25:00 -
[6]
What's funny is that when people said "Fix the LAG" two years ago, Jita only had 300-400 people in it ... now that the lag has been fixed, even more come in until we have our current 600-1000 in the system. So the next time you complain about unacceptable lag, remember that it's your actions that are making it so. If we still had 300-400, it would be running fine.
_______________________________________________
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:27:00 -
[7]
There should be no Medical facilities in Jita and CONCORD should sit outside the undock port of station 4-4 with Smartbombs going for all their worth.
Nerf Jita's 700+ population!
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:41:00 -
[8]
My god, if only there were other systems less crowded that sold almost an equal amount of goods...
<sig>
IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Join my Corporation! |
Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.06.17 20:53:00 -
[9]
i rarely have problems in jita, except undocking from 4-4 and getting bumped to hell. or the time i disconnected and it took 2 log ins to avoid the black screen of death
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Detrol
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Detrol on 17/06/2007 21:39:07
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Jita isn't broken.
Please explain to me how a second server with just Jita on it would work.
Easily I guess... if they move Jita alone to a separate server and remove it from the first, the first server wouldn't have problems with Jita anymore. 
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Ralara
Caldari
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Error404
It's just tooo laggy it's like the new Yulai (think thats the name, last time i played was years ago) hmmmmm. People say just don't go to Jita but i have to atm and it's just very annoying and unacceptable atm.
I would want a 2nd server but i doubt that'll happen so please just fix Jita.
Jita isn't broken.
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Draigoo
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
There should be no Medical facilities in Jita
i agree with
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
CONCORD should sit outside the undock port of station 4-4 with Smartbombs going for all their worth.
is a rather stupid thing to do cos it will just make the outside of 4-4 even more laggy plus it would really anoy a lot of people.
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Nerf Jita's 700+ population!
i think its safe tp say that there is a on-going eye that are tweaking things to make this more bareable
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Dragonrazor
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:49:00 -
[13]
Jita isn't broken, it's the way real estate, economics, and population density is laid out in EVE.
We have how many available systems in this game?
And how much of the player base is spread beyond Jita?
What makes every other system in the game unappealing to merchants and buyers?
Part of it is travel time... Nobody wants to jump 10 times to collect 3 of the 8 guns they need, then travel another six to get the other 5, then 12 more jumps to get the armor repper...
Of course one could argue that if all the merchants in Jita would operate in local markets besides jita instead, you wouldn't need to travel 10 jumps for 3 guns, 6 for 5 more etc. more like 2-3 jumps at a time.
Short of removing stations from Jita altogether, there is no real way to fix this issue overnight.
CCP has to:
1: Create greater incentive to do business outside of Jita (hopefully in the form of increased returns through lower taxes and such).
2: Taxes for doing business of any kind (buying and selling) in a system like jita should be astronomical. RP reasons include more Concord presence to insure safety of innocents, more bureaucracy from greedy politicians and agents looking to cash in on business, station owners having population issues (high demand limited supply, raising prices). Some might complain about this, but it is realistic and sensible. This also creates a money sink.
3: Do not simply raise rental fees, raise sales tax! (see #2).
4: The tax system should scale in ANY system in eve based on market activity and population.
5: The tax system should be system wide, not just for one station, because all that will do is cause merchants to go to another station nearby in the same system to avoid the bill.
It should be possible for a merchant or corp to profit from these fluctuations in the cost of doing business, by being able to view the tax rate in each system, find one with low cost to do business, and set up shop. Potentially cornering the local market for a time...
Economic controls can work if applied at the root of the problem, but even this might not be enough.
If it's not, further tweaks could include:
Constellation Trade/Hubs:
I am all for LOCAL hubs, that is, trade hubs that service constellations, and maybe even those that service a region. It's not that I WANT to have to travel to ten different systems to buy 10 different items, it's that I don't want everyone in the bloody game to be in the same system as me... Though everyone in the constellation is fair. Even in the same region should be ok.
Jita's problem is it's a multi regional trade hub. If it just served the local region, the issue would be smaller.
Economically, CCP could designate 1 system per constellation as a trade hub, and have it have a lower base taxation rate with a slower rate of increase for population.
Travel and destination:
One of the biggest flaws with EVE is it's size and how hard it can be for even a team of developers to really have a handle on what goes on in all these systems, and find local fixes to local problems.
CCP needs to REALLY think and plan out how they want players to move around and where they want to go.
Indeed, it should be a major undertaking, not just a minor patch with a few gate alterations, but maybe a major phase of a big content expansion.
Spend time to make better use of each constellations real estate!
Create:
More localized variety in the form of systems in each constellation that have an attraction for players to use. Trade hubs being one, content in the form of agents, and complexes and such being another. Each constellation should have it's own local hotspots and flavor. Arguably these things are in EVE, but they are not capitalized upon.
Final thoughts:
If I had it to do my way, EVE would be 1/10 the size in terms of star systems, and each one would be much more open to exploration. Warp speed would be slashed by a factor of ten... making each system feel bigger and able to contain more.
*********************************************
"Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..."
********************************************* |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cabadrin
What's funny is that when people said "Fix the LAG" two years ago, Jita only had 300-400 people in it ... now that the lag has been fixed, even more come in until we have our current 600-1000 in the system. So the next time you complain about unacceptable lag, remember that it's your actions that are making it so. If we still had 300-400, it would be running fine.
Welcome to resource exploitation 101. This is the same thing that happens when a new road is built or an existing road expanded. The power you give the Jita system the more people will flock to it.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
This is not a signature |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 17/06/2007 23:47:52
Originally by: Peter Armstrong
umm no! how about dont go to Jita in the first place? or is that too hard! I mean i sick of people complaining about jita! Simple answer dont GO THERE!!
And im sick of people like you jumping down people throats when they have the temerity to expect something to work properly
What sort of computer game is it when areas of it are off limits due to bug/shoddy hardware.
PLAYER:"Yes i just bought the latest mario game but i cant go into level 15 where the crystals are because i freeze up"
NINTENDO: "Get lost."
SKUNK
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Auldare
Path-finder
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Posted - 2007.06.17 23:53:00 -
[16]
It's not really down to shoddy hardware. it's people cramming into the area until a balance of bareability/necessityhas reached it's limit. If Jita could hold twice as many people we would end up with twice as many in it. There are a lot of other mini hubs that could be used but most still just go to jita for the convenience, others who really hate the lag in Jita just use the mini hubs.
Path-finder Recon/intel |
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:02:00 -
[17]
If I am not mistaken, and as some has allready hinted at, Jita cant be fixed.
Jita is a behavioral problem, and ccp arent ready to fix this. If you read through this thread you can clearly see this problem is all about logistics and economy. These two are suffering do to many minor problems.
The reason traders set up in Jita is because they know there are people, and people come because they know there is enough trade. So how do you move the trade?
There really is only one option I can see atm, that wont demand serious programming change. Make it easier for traders to try and create their own Jita. In order to do this they would need 2 things at least. They would need an easier and safer way to move things around. This could either be an Interbus system, or yet another increase in cargo hold volumes. (and/or nerfing freighter price big time) Second they would need the option to trade as many items as in Jita. So kind of back to unlimeted order numbers. They could then if they had enough cash buy stuff in Jita and ship it to their own new HUB. This would make the locals there supplied and they would not need to go to Jita. As I se this its the only simple solution, everything else will just be a mess of rules and features.
Limitation in orders was the main reason people needed to start concentrating trade in fewer places, the only solution then must be to reverse this.
Make the ordernumber skill 10 or 25 times curent level,, you will see the development rather quickly I believe.
- Money is Love -
Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Jennai
Leonard J. Crabs Legal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dragonrazor
Jita's problem is it's a multi regional trade hub. If it just served the local region, the issue would be smaller.
Economically, CCP could designate 1 system per constellation as a trade hub, and have it have a lower base taxation rate with a slower rate of increase for population.
I doubt if tax rate alterations would do anything because the market is already well established and the taxes are negligible anyway.
at this point, the only thing that could kill Jita would be another major route overhaul like the one that killed Yulai, and then another super-hub would pop up somewhere else.
customers want to shop in a super-hub because they can buy everything in one place, producers want to build there because of high sales volume and large supplies of minerals, and miners want to sell there because of all the producers placing huge buy orders.
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:10:00 -
[19]
why is stuff in jita so cheap?
it has to be, nobody would buy there if it wasnt
____________________________________________
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen
You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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babo
Gallente
Eye of God
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:12:00 -
[20]
I think it comes down to the simple fact that economics needs hubs and centers.
It is sort of like saying "Fix New York" (tried driving in Manhattan, I would call that 'RL lag', most any large city you will un into some lag..)
When they "Fixed" the highways between the hubs, the main point was so that other systems would see more activity, I think it just made people have to take detours.. To a lot of people it would be like the government deciding that highways were giving people too much access to the financial centers and deciding to, say for instance, remove I-5 between San Francisco and San Diego because all those little towns need some more traffic.
People go to jita so they can pick up everything they need in one spot.
People sell in jita because rare things 'sell' in jita faster than anywhere else, and if you can sell at market in bulk then regular items as well.. This is good for the buyer (they don't need to hunt around for good prices) and good for sellers (they can know their stuff will sell quickly)
I would be nice if major sellers would also use the other stations instead of almost exclusively m-4 but.. that right now is wall street of the universe.
See a video rant, vote for it by clicking 'love'
am trying to beat out a guy who flooded the contest with entries |
EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.18 00:30:00 -
[21]
jita isnt broken.
every mmo has their hotspots where people concregate to sell stuff. whether it be org, bree, or mos E.
there is no real viable solution to it.
people go where there are lots of things to buy or where the prices are the best. same is true in the real world.
I choose to not go to cathedrals to capitalism (malls and wally world) not because im a communist mind you, id rather just not deal with the crowds and teenagers (well maybe the chicks ) and the same with jita.
-----------------------------------------------
I have been known to take shuttles to various parts of 0.0
Why?
Don't really know.
I'm not an alt. One character, one account. |
max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.06.18 01:10:00 -
[22]
lol
what can they possibly do ?
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Popsikle
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.18 01:15:00 -
[23]
If people were willing to travel 2-3 jumps outside of jita to shop, we wouldnt have this problem.
Most of us builders would love to NOT haul our stuff into jita for it to be sold quickly.
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.06.18 02:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: EFF ONEF1
jita isnt broken.
every mmo has their hotspots where people concregate to sell stuff. whether it be org, bree, or mos E.
there is no real viable solution to it.
I wouldn't go that far. I think a dynamic sales tax and broker fee system would be the best solution. Make it like the office system is, only instead of how many offices are rented, it increases based on how much ISK changes hand each day in the system. So for X billions of ISK/day or above the tax rate goes up 3%. It may take some time, but it's the only possible way the majority of people will start to use the many other hubs that offer almost as much as Jita does.
Quote:
people go where there are lots of things to buy or where the prices are the best. same is true in the real world.
I wouldn't say that. Have you tried buying stuff in New York? Food, for instance, is much more expensive than where I live. Want to get a beer in New York? You may as well buy one in Iceland. They may even be cheaper over there. And this is just for the regular stuff.
In real world megacities it's not really the cheaper stuff, it's the availability of it all in a small area.
I used to get It.
Then It changed.
Now I don't even know what It is.
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Serra Nova
Core Element
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Posted - 2007.06.18 02:34:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Serra Nova on 18/06/2007 02:33:37
I find it funny that everyone says 'fix Jita, too much lag!' when I'm based in Jita, I live in Australia and I don't have any problems.
EDIT: Well... my alt does. Doh!
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Macharia
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Posted - 2007.06.18 02:38:00 -
[26]
I'd love to make jita a 0.4 for a day and see what would happen 
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Necrosmith
Gallente
Excellence In Business Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.18 02:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Macharia
I'd love to make jita a 0.4 for a day and see what would happen
LOL! That's the first time I've heard that!
Today.
IIRC, Jita IS on it's own node.
Best Regards,
--Necro
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"Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." |
sesanti
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.06.18 05:24:00 -
[28]
Allow big Alliances to fire to fire a couple of Doomsday weapons salvoes at Jita per day.
They could take turns, and the alliance which kills most carebears wins!
Or the one who is more whined upon.
Either way, it would fix Jita and make some carebears cry, two birds in one shot! 
_______________________________________________
The ShadowMaster -
<I am a guy... don't mind the portrait> |
Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2007.06.18 05:26:00 -
[29]
Quote:
It's just tooo laggy it's like the new Yulai (think thats the name, last time i played was years ago) hmmmmm. People say just don't go to Jita but i have to atm and it's just very annoying and unacceptable atm.
Bring back Yulai
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.06.18 05:29:00 -
[30]
When is that interbus... interbutt... interweb thing coming out?
Rev 3?
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Dragonrazor
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.18 05:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jennai
Originally by: Dragonrazor
Jita's problem is it's a multi regional trade hub. If it just served the local region, the issue would be smaller.
Economically, CCP could designate 1 system per constellation as a trade hub, and have it have a lower base taxation rate with a slower rate of increase for population.
I doubt if tax rate alterations would do anything because the market is already well established and the taxes are negligible anyway.
at this point, the only thing that could kill Jita would be another major route overhaul like the one that killed Yulai, and then another super-hub would pop up somewhere else.
customers want to shop in a super-hub because they can buy everything in one place, producers want to build there because of high sales volume and large supplies of minerals, and miners want to sell there because of all the producers placing huge buy orders.
Thats exactly my point, the taxes are negligible anyway... Reread my post... I say increase taxes.
Just like in real life the more of a hub a place is, the more it costs to do business there... This has the side effect of allowing for local industry to thrive despite hubs within travel distance.
As I said, I have nothing against constellation hubs, and can live with single region hubs, but Jita is a multiregional hub.
This can be fixed with a combination of higher (realisticly higher, meaning NOT negligable) taxation and jump route changes or removal of a highway.
As to the person that pointed out that the USA wouldn't remove a highway leading to NYC just to reduce traffic, thats a fair point...
The city has a responsibility to make money of the industries and merchants that thrive there...
But CCP doesn't make any real money off the taxes or trafic that come from Jita... So long as people play they game they make money.
So long as those people don't quit due to a heavy handed jita nerf (such as removing stations or making it low sec for a day etc), they will stay and migrate.
The effect can and should be gradual and taxation and economics can be done very gradually and gently, or very heavily and quickly.
If tomorrow morning when everone logged on and tried to sell something in Jita, and found that it cost 10% more than it did yesterday, and that 10% of that was due to local taxes... they would think twice about selling from their again as they would need to cut their costs by another 10% to make profit margins... meanwhile they could move one jump away to new caldari and sell it for the old price.
Continue this by making the taxation dynamic based on the location, and it will force players to spread out to more systems (IE going where the taxation and demand are balanced for best income).
Make sure to name the systems where the local taxes will be less harsh by design so people can knowingly move there.
Example of the patch notes:
The Empires, having seen the amount of wealth pouring into Jita, have decided to incorporate new taxation structures to help cash in on the booming space industry in the world. This will help pay for more police forces in the area, and upkeep on the stations due to all the trafic.
1: Local systems taxation rates on buy and sell actions in the market will be subject to change based on system market activity.
2: Market activity is measured once a day, and at the start of every eve day (after cluster restart), the local tax rate will be changed to reflect activity.
3: The more active a system is, the more expensive it will be do to business.
4: The Following systems have been designated as special trade hubs as these are idealy suited to handling traffic and can be managed by the empires directly. These systems will have lower taxation rates by design that will remain lower.
5: The map has a new feature that allows you to see what systems are designated as trade hubs.
6: There are two types of trade hub, constellation and region. Regional hubs having the lowest tax rates.
*********************************************
"Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..."
********************************************* |
Jennai
Leonard J. Crabs Legal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dragonrazor
If tomorrow morning when everone logged on and tried to sell something in Jita, and found that it cost 10% more than it did yesterday, and that 10% of that was due to local taxes... they would think twice about selling from their again as they would need to cut their costs by another 10% to make profit margins... meanwhile they could move one jump away to new caldari and sell it for the old price.
Continue this by making the taxation dynamic based on the location, and it will force players to spread out to more systems (IE going where the taxation and demand are balanced for best income).
more like Jita sellers would jack up the price by 10% to cover the taxes, and most of the buyers keep going there anyway.
people are willing to pay extra for conveniently located goods. I build battleships in Oursulaert, along with many other people. some guy builds battleships three jumps away in Luminaire and sells them for a couple million less, but the Oursulaert sellers get way more volume because most of the buyers want to get everything in Oursulaert III - Federation Navy Megamart instead of flying to Lumi, buying the ship, and flying back to Oursulaert to fit it.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:14:00 -
[33]
Jita will be fixed when people spend as little time there as possible.
Every WoW server has bad lag outside the auction house. Jita is the same thing but you have no reason to go near it.
-----
English is a complex language. Use it as best you can. |
Macharius Lei
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: sesanti
Allow big Alliances to fire to fire a couple of Doomsday weapons salvoes at Jita per day.
They could take turns, and the alliance which kills most carebears wins!
Or the one who is more whined upon.
Either way, it would fix Jita and make some carebears cry, two birds in one shot!
lol
While a good idea, the carebears would create whine tread upon whine tread about titans, but let all the pirates and 0.0er's in a it would be a gigantic free-for-all that would go down in history.
I smell a node crash
__________________________________
Proud member of Dragon's Rage |
Zhett Haukes
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:40:00 -
[35]
I think I must play on a different server to a lot of people. I never have any gamebreaking lag in Jita, never have had this so called Blackscreen of Death and tbh, can't see what the fuss is about.
Sorry.
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KHEN
Gallente
New Horizons
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Posted - 2007.06.18 07:42:00 -
[36]
Let people check jita's prices threw a dedicated window in the shape of the window used for contracts and Jita will be set free of hundreds of alts, there just for price checks
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