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Skill requirements for pos defenses too intensive!

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ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 04:48:00 - [1] As it stands now on the test server the 'Starbase Defense Management' (the skill required to take over pos guns) skill requires Anchoring lvl5 as a prerequisite to train. I currently only have anchoring 3 (for those medium bubbles). According to evemon to get to anchoring lv5 from lv3 will take 28days!!! And whats worse that the 'Starbase Defense Management' skill is a lv7 skill & allows the use of only 1 pos structure per level, so for it to be any use you would have to train it to level 4. Which is more than 2 weeks. So with all the skills it would take to adequately take over and defend my pos thats 50days of skill training! And these are skills that dont even improve my effectiveness with anything else! I was wanting to train these skills so I could help defend my corps poses if they ever come under attack. But with the skill training time like it is I would be halfway in a carrier or dread! I think CCP should seriously consider reducing the skill requirements for pos defense. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.18 04:56:00 - [2] Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Dark Shikari Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. True, Id actually like to play the game. Rather than log once a week or so to change skills. But of course it doesn't matter to CCP as long as the have thier greedy little hands in my wallet Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Admus Mobius Construct Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:04:00 - [4] DS is right. Again. ---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way."
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:10:00 - [5] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Dark Shikari Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. True, Id actually like to play the game. Rather than log once a week or so to change skills. But of course it doesn't matter to CCP as long as the have thier greedy little hands in my wallet I agree fully; it would be nice to avoid massive otherwise-useless prerequisite skills for every mini-profession... but this is CCP. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Dark Shikari Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. True, Id actually like to play the game. Rather than log once a week or so to change skills. But of course it doesn't matter to CCP as long as the have thier greedy little hands in my wallet I agree fully; it would be nice to avoid massive otherwise-useless prerequisite skills for every mini-profession... but this is CCP. Mini-Profession? At least i make some isk off of my hacking & archaelogy skills. How do they intend to make such intensive skill training profitable?, Capital rat spawns outside the poses Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:13:00 - [7] It means that CCP is trying to limit the amount of POSes an alliance can very effectively defend at any one time (at least from inside the POS itself) by forcing players to specialize if they want to control POS weapon systems. <sig> IBTL! IBDS! IBTC! 1st in a BoB Post! And other such forum tom-foolery. Join my Corporation!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:15:00 - [8] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Dark Shikari Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. True, Id actually like to play the game. Rather than log once a week or so to change skills. But of course it doesn't matter to CCP as long as the have thier greedy little hands in my wallet I agree fully; it would be nice to avoid massive otherwise-useless prerequisite skills for every mini-profession... but this is CCP. Mini-Profession? At least i make some isk off of my hacking & archaelogy skills. How do they intend to make such intensive skill training profitable?, Capital rat spawns outside the poses By "mini-profession" I mean a specific set of roles you can play in EVE that are very restricted; that is, they are not useful outside of their immediate use. In the past, they haven't been half bad; some mini-professions have been useful enough to justify their training time. But they're getting worse. Examples: Warfare links: absurd numbers of SP required to be remotely useful Invention: Half a dozen skills at high levels to be competitive at all Boosters: Just to use them properly there are half a dozen skills that aren't even market seeded etc, etc, etc 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:19:00 - [9] A lot of alliances use pos's and stront to do their pvp for them. They should suffer a little if they want it made even easier. Maybe they could try undocking and defending their pos if they dont wanna control the guns?
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 05:34:00 - [10] Originally by: umop 3pisdn A lot of alliances use pos's and stront to do their pvp for them. They should suffer a little if they want it made even easier. Maybe they could try undocking and defending their pos if they dont wanna control the guns? Do you have any idea whatsoever of how boring pos warfare is Mr. Alt? Sitting in the same place for several hours while just throwing ammo & stront at the tower is no fun whatsoever. These changes were supposed to make it so that it wouldn't be so boring. You would have to fight against an intelligent enemy (well at least in most cases) rather than just having on big, stupid, harmless target. But as it is currently implemented on the test server we will see no major changes. Because there will be very few willing to waste such large amounts of training time, rather than improving other skills. So if it stays the way it is when it hits tq nothing will change Also, plz dont flamebait Mr. Alt Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking

Jarden Gallente The Galactic Empire Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:00:00 - [11] Originally by: ghosttr I currently only have anchoring 3 (for those medium bubbles). According to evemon to get to anchoring lv5 from lv3 will take 28days!!! You need to get your learning skill up or get some implants. 28days training time for a rank 3 skills is not normal.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Bein Glorious on 18/06/2007 06:08:27 I think, out of all people, a virtually useless prerequisite skill like anchoring V would hurt the poorer owners of lowsec POSes the most, who would otherwise be unable to stop groups of dreadnoughts from terrorizing their POSes. I'm surprised more people aren't concerned over this. __________________________
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Jarden Originally by: ghosttr I currently only have anchoring 3 (for those medium bubbles). According to evemon to get to anchoring lv5 from lv3 will take 28days!!! You need to get your learning skill up or get some implants. 28days training time for a rank 3 skills is not normal. just put it into evemon anchoring lv4 is 3days, lv5 is 24days, thats with all of my learning skills to 4 Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Bein Glorious I think, out of all people, a virtually useless prerequisite skill like anchoring V would hurt the poorer owners of lowsec POSes the most, who would otherwise be unable to stop groups of dreadnoughts from terrorizing their POSes. I'm surprised more people aren't concerned over this. I agree with this also; the worst consequence of high prerequisites aren't the big alliances but those who use a skill or profession more casually. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:30:00 - [15] Another thing that we dont want happening is for CCP to do what they did with the salvagers. At first they did require a lv5 skill to use, but CCP noticed (after the patch) it was too time intensive after alot of people had trained the skill. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.18 06:53:00 - [16] Edited by: Clorthos on 18/06/2007 06:55:06 I have to agree with DS about low sp corps, but also the ability to focus fire from a pos on a incoming fleet is going to do some serious punishment to ships that up until now have been able to count on a pos to rotate fire. A well set up and managed pos may to be able to defend itself vs having a fleet come in and create lagfest 2007. The skills to learn this should represent an appropriate ammount of time in relation to the ammount of damage you will be doing with some mean nasty guns. btw Cha and memory help with lowering skill times
Trem Sinval Sinval Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.18 07:04:00 - [17] Your skills are the suck. I need 22 days to learn Anchoring 5 from nothing, with 6/6 base (and then planned emp 4/ presence 2). Level 4 on a Rank 7 skill will take the average player a week to complete. And here's the final clue-by-four: your POS still defends itself just as well as it did pre-Rev2, even without you. Take your panties out of your ass for a moment. - Trem
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 07:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Clorthos Edited by: Clorthos on 18/06/2007 06:55:06 I have to agree with DS about low sp corps, but also the ability to focus fire from a pos on a incoming fleet is going to do some serious punishment to ships that up until now have been able to count on a pos to rotate fire. A well set up and managed pos may to be able to defend itself vs having a fleet come in and create lagfest 2007. The skills to learn this should represent an appropriate ammount of time in relation to the ammount of damage you will be doing with some mean nasty guns. btw Cha and memory help with lowering skill times So not only do you want the guns to remain stupid, but you also want to be able to shoot down the guns now that they are outside of the pos. If my poses guns are at stake I should at least be able to aim them, also, the maximum amount of guns you can control is 5, and they are not as poweful as a dread in siege. Also carriers are getting triage mode so the dreads probably wont have to worry about tanking if your smart and have carriers repping them. Without being able to contral the guns it is a pos nerf more than anything. The control of the guns is what is supposed to balance out all of the new changes. But if its gonna take 40+ days to train the skills, how many people do you think are going to train this skill over training more practical skills? I know i wont waste 40days on controlling a pos if I can be halfway in a dread in the same amount of time Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking
Phoenix Lord The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.18 07:13:00 - [19] Edited by: Phoenix Lord on 18/06/2007 07:12:46 Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Dark Shikari Time. Sink. Say it over and over, and remind yourself that CCP is just an ordinary MMOG company. True, Id actually like to play the game. Rather than log once a week or so to change skills. But of course it doesn't matter to CCP as long as the have thier greedy little hands in my wallet Umm.. wtf? who says you cant actually play when a skill is training? Oh btw, i get 26 days from level 1 to 5 with my ****ty level 2 basic charisma learning skill and 9 base charisma lol. EDIT: and memory is only 14 after level 5 basic and level 4 adv learning skill. Arrow Capital Ship Sales
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 07:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Trem Sinval Your skills are the suck. I need 22 days to learn Anchoring 5 from nothing, with 6/6 base (and then planned emp 4/ presence 2). Level 4 on a Rank 7 skill will take the average player a week to complete. And here's the final clue-by-four: your POS still defends itself just as well as it did pre-Rev2, even without you. Take your panties out of your ass for a moment. I said it in my previous reply but ill say it again, without being able to control the guns manually this is just a big pos nerf. The guns remain stupid, annd now you get to shoot them off of my pos before sieging it. Capital ships have also gotten a major boost with carriers getting the triage mode, so you now have the ability to tank more damage, and reduce the poses dps. Also, I just quoted my own skill training time, of course it will vary. But even with the right stats in the right places, and decent learning skills its still 20+ days for anchoring V, + 15 days or so for getting the gun control skill to 4. So at the very least you are looking at 35days of training. And the benefit of this extensive training is that you now stand minimal chance at stopping a siege at your pos. And thats if your online before your pos gets sieged and your guns get taken out. Stop the carebear whine, Fix Cloaking

Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.06.18 07:49:00 - [21] It wouldn't be as bad if anchoring 5 actually DID something, like say 10% less anchor time per level. As is, anchroing is pure, useless, time sink. Tired of Waiting? Use Empire Research
Rafein	Posted - 2007.06.18 09:46:00 - [22] If you don't wanna train for it, don;t train for it. Why does everyone think they are entitled to every skill in game with min training time. CCP does not want every alliance having everyone able to defend all the POS. The queestion simply is, it is worth it to you, your corp, your alliance, for you to train for it. If yes, go for it, if no, don't. Others will. Heh, others already had Anchoring 5 ages ago (required for Outpost construction skill)
Miyamoto Uroki Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.18 09:56:00 - [23] my bet is, that most corps in alliances will have standard alt chars trained for pos gun control. Logged out in a POS and ready to go. Maybe even share account information across the corp members.
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.18 10:26:00 - [24] This is my opinion. POS warfare sucks, and it's boring. It always has been. But now, this is CCP's chance to make things different. They made a number of changes to POS structures, one of which allowing you to 'main the guns.' CCP took the old, boring, automatic guns, and re-innovated their use, with a cool new game mechanic. That is a very good thing. Then they take this new game mechanic, helping to revitalize boring POS warfare, and wrapped it in a useless time sink that noone will be fcking bothered to train. I can almost hear the countless hours of coding and debugging that went into this 'feature' go down the drain. One more thing, does this mean I have to train the new "Revelations II" skill to level 5 before I can download the patch? Originally by:* DB Preacher I may be a muppet on these forums and wind peeps up massively but what is going on here is waaaaay over the edge of reasonable morality.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.06.18 10:29:00 - [25] 28 days really isn't that much. Long enough for zombies to wipe out the UK maybe, but not really that tragic for a lvl 5. Would be nice to see that lowered to lvl 4 Anchoring, though. Lvl 5 seems a bit overly harsh. Time sinks in order to unlock new abilities = good. Massive time sinks that do nothing but slow the game down to an unbearable crawl = bad. --------
adriaans Amarr Interstellar StarShipWrights Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.18 10:55:00 - [26] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Trem Sinval Your skills are the suck. I need 22 days to learn Anchoring 5 from nothing, with 6/6 base (and then planned emp 4/ presence 2). Level 4 on a Rank 7 skill will take the average player a week to complete. And here's the final clue-by-four: your POS still defends itself just as well as it did pre-Rev2, even without you. Take your panties out of your ass for a moment. Capital ships have also gotten a major boost with carriers getting the triage mode, so you now have the ability to tank more damage, and reduce the poses dps. shoot the carrier? --sig-- Knowledge is power!
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:08:00 - [27] More importantly will the POS skill already in game but doing nothing be converted to this new skill or is it still intended to be brought online somewhen? Also Known As
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.18 11:23:00 - [28] Was most likely done to stop people from training up "pos defence alts". ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:03:00 - [29] Well, My alt is the one sitting by the POS for refueling. It makes sense that I train those skills on that alt.
Gaia Thorn Infestation.	Posted - 2007.06.18 12:40:00 - [30] And i want carrier lvl5 to be a 1 day skill but u dont see me crying a river for it ? Please if you are in a alliance and you are pos manager then training this skill should a primary. And tbh 50 days of skill training isnt that much. Please suck it up and take it like a man.



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