| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
   |
Posted - 2007.06.20 10:37:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Ajulutsikael
No. Everyone with 5 mil SP and any sense at all should already have those skills anyway. 
You are being sarcastic, right?
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:20:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
No, I'm being serious. They might not be flashy uberpwn skills but there is no measure for how useful EM 5 has been for me and I would recommend any new character to get it trained as high ss possible as soon as possible.
Over what? Frig/cruiser 5? t2 medium weapons? Decent nav skills? t2 tanking skills? Learning skills?
There is a point where (without heat) EM5 is time/effect wise a good idea to train. At 4.4 mil SP this point is by far not there yet though.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Personally? I wouldn't recommend a new character move from destroyers to cruisers without getting engineering, electronics and both cap skills to 5 and most of the rest of the engineering and basic electronics skills to 4. Oh and the seven non jump drive related navigation skills to at least 4, and if Caldari getting the shield hp and shield recharge skills to 5 too. So about 5 mil SP at least. That's off the top of my head so I've almost certainly missed things there.
And zero weapon skills and zero learning skills. No armortanking skills either. Sounds VERY effective 
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.23 08:13:00 -
[4]
Useful? Yes.
"Damn useful"? Not really. There are tons of stuff which is a better time investment. t2 guns/misssiles/drones, t2 tanking skills, nav skills, frig 2, cruiser 5 and so on.
After around 1 year it gets about the same lvl in time/effect as other skills you can train and is regardless heat slowly a "good idea". Before that though..not really. Before that you'll be making your char weaker by training EM5, not stronger because you can invest these 630k SP into other skills which give you a far greater boost than 4.2% more cap.
The thing is really that we have a generic, non module specific (or t2) game mechanic which is visible in the UI from day one. It's rather strange that CCP is giving it such high skill requirements, there is no other generic gamemechanic which is like that.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.23 11:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
I disagree that EM 5 isn't a good investment but it is maybe a little less useful to you if you fly Caldari or Minmater but even with those races, it doesn't hurt to have a little more base cap.
Doesn't matter. Even for amarr getting the frig/cruiser skill to 5 will help you a LOT more than EM5. Or getting t2 weapons. Or t2 tanks.
It's before you have all of that simply no good investement.
Originally by: Malcanis
WTB: Rank 5 Battleship book. name your price!
He meant getting it to lvl 5, not that it is a rank 5 skill.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.23 20:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Sooo.. stop whining and dont train it? 
I AM training it
Did so since I saw the skill requirements changed on SISI. 3 days left.
Got no problem with it, but I am over a year old and don't have anything really important to train atm.
If I were a new player however I would have a bit of a problem with it. Not because I want to have it at once with a 30 minute training time, but because it would be before my nose from day one which kinda suggests it being a core game mechanic which you HAVE to train AFAP. Some frustration potential there.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.24 12:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aramendel on 24/06/2007 12:58:13
Originally by: errorist
Energy management 5 is a skill everyone should train,and you say it is only 5%, then why train the skill in the first place... ¿the lvl 5 of the skill actually gives the most cap.
Er.. no, it doesn't. You seem to onfuse it with energy systems operation. There you go from 0.8 to 0.75 of your cap recharge time, which gives you compared to lvl 4 of the skill a boost 0.8/0.75 -> 1.0666 or in other words, 6.7% more cap/sec.
FOR EM5 the opposite is the case, it gives the smallest benefit compared to the last lvl of the skill. You go from 1.2 to 1.25 of your base cap, which is 1.25/1.2 -> 1.04166, aka 4.2% more max cap (and recharge) than at lvl 4.
In general, for skills which *reduce* something the last lvl has always the biggest effect and for skills which *increase* something the last lvl has always the smallest effect.
Compared vs the previous lvl of cource.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.06.27 01:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'm going to rip-off the opinions of a few other posters and rehash them, as this hasn't been asnwered to by all the "suck it up" fanbois:
I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.
Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?
Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?
Comparing Heat to the scanner, warp drive, in-built system scanner and such is much more valid then comparing heat to HACs/whatever. And to the guy who said that exploration (probing) is also a part of the UI but requires skills, well, at a basic level (in-built scanner), it doesn't now.
And noobs baking modules (which can be repaired), well, noobs can also go to low-sec and get blasted/podded. Nothing stops them from that. Rather put heat in the tutorial.
Can any of you even formulate a logical answer to this except "suck it up"?
QFE.
Also, even if there would be no onboard scanner, you can get probing skills pretty fast. It's no valid comparsion to heat.
Oh, and EM5 in 10 hours
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.06.28 03:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
QFE.
There, two can play "you're wrong" game 
You might reread what I was writing - because I was *agreeing* with you 
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.15 11:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Plave Okice
All those who started whining in this thread could have had this trained by now.
I started training EM5 as soon as soon as I saw the changed requirements on sisi, have it now since around 2 week and am still the opinion that it is stupid and would be happy if it would be reduced to EM4.
What you fail to realize is that many people do not whine because of personal reasons but simply because they think it is a bad game design choice.
The problem is firstly that, yes, EM5 is useful, however in training time/effect it only becomes *equally* useful to other skills around your 1 year age mark. Before that training other skills will give you a bigger efficiency boost. So the "you should train it anyway" argument only counts for older chars.
Then there's the fact that it is a basic UI option. It is no t2 item nor does it work better with t2 items, it is something you can use with nearly every item. Therefore it should also be available with minor skill requirements since it is a basic gameplay element and no t2 ship.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 17:53:00 -
[11]
If your ship is capstable without it its effect is pretty much nonexistant for you. It makes you in theory more nosresistant, but it only has a real effect on capitals.
It *is* nice to have, but I would class it in usefulness below lvl 5 in a ship you spec in or a t2 weapon or t2 tanking skills or...
Basically, the "its a useful skill" argument only applies for players beyond a certain age. It's similar like how BS5 is useful, however training it before you can even use large guns is kinda a bad idea.
And, in either case, if EM5 is useful or not does not really matter. The point is that heat is a (new) basic gamemechanic. It's no t2 ship or module or something which does only work with those. It does not require specialist modules. Giving it a such high prerequs simply does not make much sense.
|
| |
|