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Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
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Posted - 2012.01.14 19:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
1) Thank you for the mid on the retribution. I am a bit worried about a optimal and tracking boost on a laser ship. Scorch plus the ability to swap to muliti in a second make this ship dangerous from all ranges when you give it a tracking boost.
2) Prom its a bad idea to go head to head with Wensly on anything concerning any frigate.
3) Not to worried about the mwd boost. it is kind of annoying that they could not think of something that benefits everyone but hey I cant either. I will still be fitting abs on my afs the same as i do my interceptors.
4) (correct me if IGÇÖm wrong) but I thought i read that a boost to null(ammo) will be released at the same time as the next patch this combined with a web will make the enyo pretty ridiculous. Great damage Great Tracking and now with range control and the ability to hit at that range.
5) to the people complaining about the wolf not getting a mid, falloff..falloff..falloff
6) Afs are hard to kill in bigger ships....when you donGÇÖt have webs neuts or small drones. oddly enough t1 frigs are hard to kill without those things as well.
My final verdict (for what little its worth)- Mid on the Retribution was necessary, the mwd sig reduction necessary (0.0 people cry about everything), everything else seems like a bit much. I fly assault frigs pretty regularly and I never feel like they are underpowered.(note-I dont fly ugly missile spewing shield tank boats named after birds)
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Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
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Posted - 2012.01.14 22:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
It is however tremendously cap dependant and lacks both a second mid and good speed, so range dictation can be difficult.
Im assuming by second mid you mean 3rd for a web, You are right it will not be able to dictate range. I dont think this will matter as it can be equally effective at and range between 1-20km. The cap dependency is a more resonable counter, dependency being the key word. It is not going to cap out very quickly on its own but neuts especially on bigger ships will give it alot of problems. Im still not sure if a single small neut will be enough to really eat up the massive capacitor of the ship.
Prom I was in no way trying to suggest that you were inferior to Wensly, your record speaks for itself. However you must agree that he is the professor of all things frigate.
Edit: Also the last thing any ship needs is a boost to ab speed. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
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Posted - 2012.01.14 23:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
no worries my brain works the same way, cut out one mid because almost everything needs a prop |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
0
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: would be absolutely obliterated by a Crow or Raptor (the *worst* interceptors).
the crow is actually a very dangerous intercepter when flown properly standard missle fits are brutal vs other kiters and very effective against other frigates. also it has one of the best targeting ranges of combat cepters wich is a huge advantage. I know its off topic but people moaning about the crow is a pet peeve of mine. the raptor is indeed awful . Everything else you said is true though i stand by my previous statement that this buff is a bit to much. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.17 20:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Much of the WTF has come from the same group of people posting over and over, sometimes on different accounts to give the impression of more people (ie: proxyyyy). They're also all empire dwellers, so that doesn't come as a surprise..
There it is my opinion does not matter because I prefer to fight in low-sec, everyone plays the game differently and there are a lot of really good af pilots in low. You are choosing to ignore a very large subculture within the game, this is also the culture that will be affected the most by these changes for good or for bad. As it stands these people also have the most experience flying assault frigates so I would think twice before ignoring your low sec brothers.
I understand that assault frigs might have a few problems in fleet fighting and in 0.0 in general. I also admit that you understand these problems far better than me, if you and a host of other people with a similar background say the mwd boost is good then i will take your word for it.
Personally the mwd bonus has never been an issue for me, what is an issue is the massive secondary boosts these ships are getting. Every weakness these ships have is being filled by boosts and unnecessary slots. Even I will have trouble losing the new afs to other frigates and im a mediocre pilot at best.
The frequency and diversity of fights is what makes solo frigate pvp so fun. This is because any ship can be killed by almost any other ship even when flow by good pilots. This boost will ruin that diversity, because if im flying a rifter or any faction frig that costs less than 40 millon, I would rather fight a hurricane and pray that it doesnGÇÖt have neuts than fight any of these new assault frigates.
Will it kill solo frigate pvp? No, but it will be a serious blow to the one of the few thriving comunities left in lowsec. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
2
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Posted - 2012.01.18 02:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Edit: Alex and Hans are saying what im trying to say much better than i can myself so im gonna go ahead and remove this wallotext |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
2
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: Also wrong. The bad AFs have weaknesses. AFs are the heavy combat frigates. They already do, and should continue to, shred other Frigates. T1 Cruisers & Recons don't typically stand a chance against HACs, so by comparison neither should the *lighter* T2 combat frigates & T1 frigates. AFs are also pretty bad against larger ships. They need a direct warp-in at least, as they are cannon fodder on approach otherwise. I truly can't believe you guys are crying that your 500k isk Rifters (or whatever t1), which takes minimum of 70k SP to fly, won't be able to handily kill a 25m Wolf (or whatever other heavy combat AF), which requires an absolute minimum of 1+mil SP to board. You can't really be serious. You could train a Thrasher up to Destroyers 5 in less than half that time, save a ton of isk, and make AF pilots sweat with ease. To top it all off, nobody is going to buy an AF on a regular basis if they don't have all the appropriate skills to a significantly high level. It's far more effective for pvp (and on the wallet) for said pilot to spend the time flying Destroyers or T1 Frigates before jumping into the occasional AF. You can't honestly think that the majority of FW guys (for example) who lose numerous T1 frigates a day are going to be able to afford the same volume of AFs. 5 fully t2 fit Rifters for under 20mil, cool! 5 t2 fit AFs for ~120mil, not so cool. 
A well flown rifer that is fit for the task should be able to have a shot against a badly flow and fit af thats the way it is now. It isint easy but it can be done. Its like saying a vega or even better a zealot should not be allowed to lose to a rupture or sfi if he gets caught inside web and scram range.
I lost a Jag today because i didn't fit it right and flew it like an idiot, this doesn't mean the jag is broken it means i was an idiot. (thanks for the tips Alex)
I also lost a rifter to a wolf I did everything right was fit specifically to kill him (tracking disruptor permanently overheated t2 burner) and he did everything i wanted him to until the very end of the fight. Then he Switched his ammo from barrage to fusion got rid of my traversal and killed me. He was able to do this because he was not an idiot and he was flying a good well balanced ship. It was a good fight and turned out exactly the way it should have. Because it was still a good fight that I had a slight chance of winning i will still try the same thing on a different opponent tomorrow and like today we will both enjoy it .
Now let me tell you how that fight goes with these boosts I warp in the fight starts he kills me in the first 5 seconds, without any manual piloting or even switching to short range ammo. I reship to a ab fit claw, he does the same exact thing, I fit a firetail with a td web scram and ab I get in tight he switches ammo to slightly better tracking fusion I die again. I reship to a slicer, its a wolf im a slicer my shots do nothing to him his barrage is tearing me a new ******* i warp out. I swap to a ab and web ranis he switches back to fusion i die, I swap to a ab and td ranis die just the same. I hop back into a fire tail only this time its shield tanked i keep range at 7000 and use barrage he kills me without switching from fusion, I get back in a TD fire tail I use an optimal disruption script, and stay out at overheated scram range, He switches to barrage I die again. I get in my own wolf its a good fight but i still lose because im not very good with the wolf. I reship into the same wolf he feels sorry for me ships down to a fire tail i kill him, he gets back in his wolf and neither of us ever flies anything but assault frigates again. We both spend the remainder of our low-sec days trapped in AFs picking off idiots who think they have to fit a mwd to a enyo because of the new role bonus.
Ps. Look up Darkstar Pownyouall he is killing t3s with firetails I guess that means they need a boost, either that or the fire tail is the most op ship in the game.
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Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.20 01:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
you are right it doesnt help my argument but im still bringing it up because its awesome.
on a side not what is the thorax vs vega matchup for t1 frigs and afs. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.20 06:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would rather fight a zealot or vega with my rifter than any of these new afs. However looks like its to late to change anything now they are just making it worse, Retribution with 7.5 tracking was really hoping they would move all the other af tracking bonuses down to at least 5. Thats eve if you don't like it ***** till they change it if they don't change it adapt if you cant adapt start bitching again. I have done my bitching now im going to try and adapt.
Prom its nice to know the guy I argued with the most flys and understands frigs, and was not just a total 0.0 blob leech. Although I suspect an ulterior motive for you pushing this thing so hard. Personally I hate flying AFs they are ugly and clunky, brawling interceptors are much more my style. The next few weeks are gonna be expensive.
Ps. the ab cepters are very capable of holding a cain inside scram an neut range 80% reduction in propulsion jamming makes it almost impossible to neut off the scram. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.20 13:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
um fit a vamp or a neut, know your roll |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.20 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
This guy did not strike me as a person who knows what he was talking about so my comment was more the real world your dumb dont talk kind of know your roll and less eve" your roll is heavy tackler." It does still apply. If the new role is as a heavy tackle under webs and neuts then its very important to fit a vamp, Its also nice in solo pvp the vengeance recharge makes it so you can A) run your active setup for days or B) neut the other guys rig off. ccp has done a good job with setting a role just the unintended consequence is afs becoming wtfpwnmobiles for anything smaller than a cruiser. |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.20 18:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
If your acting like the AF in its current form is some helpless and broken ship your an idiot. If your argument is yes AFs are good already they should just be better then I cant really argue with you. This is because we have fundamentally different views on what constitutes fun in pvp. I like facing off against a equal in a ship with strengths a weaknesses to avoid and exploit.(the patch will damage that) Others like to face down superior foes acting like a thorn in its side until with the help of a few friends the behemoth can be killed. (thats totally acceptable and the new afs will be great for this) However you strike me as neither of these people my guess is your idea of fun is pressing f1 and waiting for the explosion.(congratulations this patch is for you) |
Stukkler Tian
Space Hobos LLC.
4
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Like i said I cant argue with you because we are playing two different games, in your game this buff is very much needed and still keeps it balanced, In my game this buff is a body blow. Your game has more people and brings in new subs mine doesnt so my game loses out. Im sure your not serious about it but STAY AWAY FROM MY STABBER its like your trying to kill all that i care for. |
Stukkler Tian
Deaths Head Brigade
Vanguard.
4
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Posted - 2012.02.07 04:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah lowsec took a big hit on this one i was opposed to it before it went though, and now all i see on dscan is af af af af af, all i can fly is af af af. Gonna give ewar frigs a shot always thought the sentinel looked cool, might give up and move on to bigger ships either way this af boost has been a very dark part of an otherwise wonderfull set of patches.
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