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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Tallest
C C P C C P Alliance
276
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
Please post your feedback about Assault Ship balancing in this thread.
Thank you.
The changes are:
All Assault Ships
* Added role bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
Retribution
* Added bonus: 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed per skill level. * +1 mid slot * +15 CPU * +200 armor hp
Vengance
* Added bonus: -5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level * +1 high slot * +10 CPU
Harpy
* Added bonus: -5% bonus to shield resistances * +1 low slot * +200 shield hp * +10 CPU
Hawk
* Added bonus: -5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level * +1 mid slot * +10 CPU
Enyo
* Added bonus: +5% damage changed to 10% bonus to damage (like taranis does) * +1 mid slot * +200 armor hp * +10 CPU
Ishkur
* Added bonus: 10% bonus to drone hitpoints per level * +1 low slot
Jaguar
* Added bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level * +1 low slot
Wolf
* Added bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level * +1 low slot * +200 armor hp * +10 CPU |
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wanking monkey girl
Capital Maintenance
18
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
first |
wanking monkey girl
Capital Maintenance
18
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
the changes look promising good to see this was not passed over for 2 more years |
Kelsi Corynn
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Retribution will have more than one midslot?!
*blinks back tears* |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Hawk is still broken.
The shield boost bonus is worthless on a PvP frigate (active tank uses up too much cap, you don't have grid/CPU to fit a very good one, and it gives you zero protection against the biggest threat to AFs: high-tracking medium guns), and it's a Minmatar bonus anyway. Please change it to a 5%/level shield resist bonus like all of the other Caldari ships.
The Hawk still doesn't have enough grid or CPU, especially since you just added another CPU-hungry mid slot. It's a ship that was already impossibly tight on CPU, and anything useful that you put in the extra mid is going to take way more than 15 CPU. And of course you've done nothing to help the grid problem. End result: it's a ship that looks awesome in theory, until you try putting modules on it and realize that nothing fits.
Light missiles are still useless. They don't do enough damage, and they're virtually impossible to fit (unless you sacrifice everything else to do it). This leaves the Hawk with only one choice of weapon (rockets), unlike all of the other AFs which have the flexibility to fit short or long range guns.
Also, you still haven't fixed the Wolf/Jaguar bonus problem (the Jaguar is the Vagabond-style fast autocannon ship but has a range bonus appropriate for artillery, while the Wolf would work well as an artillery platform but gets a falloff bonus for ACs). |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
284
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Finally +midslot for Retribution \o/ |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.01.05 11:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jaguar, you have no idea what the its problem is...
This is my regular jaguar fit:
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
110
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like the addition of new hardpoints and addition CPU/Grid but i don't like the new role bonus. 50% reduction tho MWD sig radius is supposed to be the interceptors party trick...
I would prefer one of the following: Increase to AB speed boost reduction in mwd capacitor penalty reduction in mwd cap penalty |
Tribal Fusion
Questionable Morality
0
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
More tank on Ishkur and retro is getting another mid and more hp.... Bring Back large frig fleets of doom |
Gempei
Siberian Khatru. Shadow Operations.
22
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hawk - remove 7.5% bonus to Shield Boost Amount per level and add 5% / 7,5% shield resistance Jaguar - remove 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Optimal Range per level and add 10% bonus to Small Projectile Falloff Range per level
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Arrynoss
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
8
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
The MWD sig radius is just going to make some ships, most notably the Taranis rapidly underused with all that extra ehp you will get from flying an Enyo in the same manner.
The role bonus as stated before needs to revolve around Afterburner usage. AF's are tough to fit and utilise their bonii as they are without the pigeon hole of another MWD vessel. That would leave the Hawk and Harpy especially as once more, completely impossible to fit without bursting through CPU and PG outputs.
I feel a bit of a rethink is needed there. These ships only have a finite amount of space and the current setups of bonii are almost asking you to utilise 1 or 2 of them rather than all of them. I would love to get all those mid slots on a hawk used so you can get a mean little boost tank on it but you are just never going to get half of what you need on with an mwd fitted.
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gfldex
254
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
The proposed changes are not going to do any good in PvP. It's the same then with blasterboats or any other short range ship. Range control is so strong these days that it's a complete gamble to bring a short range ship. If your enemy got gang links to boost scram range or webber range your might as well not try to shoot the enemy. If you want to improve short range ships you have to nerf range on range control. I somehow doubt you will be able tho because that would make quite a few ships useless.
Edit: Where are most of those ships are going to get the capa from to actually run the MWD? Merry crisis and a happy new fear! |
ry ry
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.05 12:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
The stat changes are a good change, but the role bonus is a bit pointless really. It's not that lower sig radius is bad or anyhting just that there aren't going to be many occasions where you get any real benefit from it.
I'd much rather have seen some kind of afterburner speed boost, or even a capacitor-related bonus that made active tanking more viable. Some of the crazy ideas (web resistance etc.) could have been interesting too. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.01.05 13:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:
Wolf
* Added bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level * +1 low slot * +200 armor hp * +10 CPU
It seams good but 2 details:
While the jaguar is more a tackling ship, the wolf is a killer! Its DPS ship! this ship needs to put more damage out, so the missile launcher does not make sence in a ship that gives bonus to turrents! Give the possibility to fit 1 more turrent instead -> and if you do this, give us a bonus to guns fitting so we can fit all 5 guns with no CPU or power problems!
Also this ship it is a armor tanking ship! low sig and speed is what it keeps it alive! For that to happen you cannot fit a MDW! Please give it more base speed and give an afterburner bonus instead of MDW bonus to this ship!
Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Sihilzei
Semeth Family Amarrian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.01.05 13:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
why do minmatar ships always get better boni than amarr? retribution 5% tracking wolf n jaguar 7,5% |
ry ry
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.05 13:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:
Wolf
* Added bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Tracking per level * +1 low slot * +200 armor hp * +10 CPU
It seams good but 2 details: While the jaguar is more a tackling ship, the wolf is a killer! Its DPS ship! this ship needs to put more damage out, so the missile launcher does not make sence in a ship that gives bonus to turrents! Give the possibility to fit 1 more turrent instead -> and if you do this, give us a bonus to guns fitting so we can fit all 5 guns with no CPU or power problems! Also this ship it is a armor tanking ship! low sig and speed is what it keeps it alive! For that to happen you cannot fit a MDW! Please give it more base speed and give an afterburner bonus instead of MDW bonus to this ship! it's a utility high. you don't *have* to put a rocket launcher in there.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
488
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Posted - 2012.01.05 13:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
if you decide to stick with MWD bonus, please remove the capacitor capacity penalty otherwise this will kill the active tanked vengeance. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
76
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Posted - 2012.01.05 13:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Hello
Please post your feedback about Assault Ship balancing in this thread.
Thank you.
The changes are:
All Assault Ships
* Added role bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
About the new role bonus, it looks good, but to be honest I think it goes into a area that belongs to interceptors and in no way helps assult ships, since 50% more or less signature only makes a diference when facing ships with large turrents, every other ship with medium or small guns will be able to hit you as before.
I think the best option here is to give a bonus to afterburner:
* Added role bonus: 100% increase in afterburner Max Velocity Bonus
While it doesn't give you the 500% speed bonus of a MDW, it gives ~250% and its a compromise, it keeps your sig small and allows you to speed tank with a ~1800m/s speed. This way it becomes more interesting without the need to enter in the interceptor area of action. Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Lisa EF
Loot und Sonstiges
0
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Remove: MWD Bonus
Add: 100% Bonus to "Small" Afterburner Speed |
Forsaken Skipper
OEG Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sihilzei wrote:why do minmatar ships always get better boni than amarr? retribution 5% tracking wolf n jaguar 7,5% This. Please, give 7.5% tracking bonus to retribution. There is no ship in EVE which have 5% tracking bonus. 7.5% is a standard increase.
Lisa EF wrote:Remove: MWD Bonus Add: 100% Bonus to "Small" Afterburner Speed Assault ships will be overpowered then. Current boost is nice enough (mistake in tracking bonuses is an exception). |
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
63
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
As many others have said the signature reduction role bonus is not a bad bonus, however it seems wrong to:
- Have assault frigates share a role we already know from Interceptors
- Have a role for a combat ship they can only use for tackling/running and not in combat where they belong
- Force assault frigates into using MicroWarpDrives to benefit from the rolebonus
Assault frigates are not bad because they get killed MWDing to tackle a target. Assault frigates have trouble because they don't seperate their role from interceptors significantly with interceptors being able to kick out lots of dps with a very small base signature. Interceptors should be speedy to intercept targets and tackle them - Assault frigates should be able to take on ships within close range without getting annihilated in the first 10-15 seconds.
The biggest threat to assault frigates are in my opinion super tracking medium guns (blasters and autocannons) combined with web, scrambler, energy neutralizers and most ships having at least 5 light drones.
Giving a role bonus to assault ships for microwarpdrives will be a disadvantage in close combat where they belong and step on the toes of interceptors. These ships should be fighting in or close to scrambler range and will be sitting dead in the water if scrambled. With an afterburner bonus they don't have to worry about scramblers and as long they can keep the afterburner running they will have a much better chance of survival. 50% extra speed with afterburner enables most assault ships to keep up with microwarpdriving cruisers and battlecruisers and will still be able to keep up some transversal when webbed.
And to solve issues with overdimensioned propulsion mods, perhaps fitting requirements for 10mn and 100mn modules should be increased... In my opinion microwarpdrives fits a bit too easy anyway and few people use afterburners for pvp anyway.
Pinky |
gfldex
254
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have a question for you. Why can I fit HACs/HICs/Marauders/Ceptors completely T2 but have to use faction mods on AF even if I leave one highslot empty? And I'm not asking to fit 4 damage mods and neutrons or some such.
Why are Gallente AF railboats? It doesn't really get them much because a) they can't fit them and b) they wont be able to stay out of webber range anyways. Even with the proposed boost I wont fly any AF in PvP any time soon. They are a ***** to fit, they ain't damage dealers, they are to slow for tackle, they can't really tank. Beside the Harpy non of them got the range to take out bombers (why can't I shoot bombs anyways?). What are they for?
Did you toy with gang links? That's pretty much the only role I would see in a wolfpack for AF.
Edit: How about a hefty heat bonus? Something like you wont take heat damage until the heatmeter goes beyond 75%? That would make them special. Not sure if it would be that useful tho. Merry crisis and a happy new fear! |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
MWD role bonus is really uncreative. |
Ava Starfire
Teraa Matar
168
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
I do not like the changes at all.
The retri should have its rather pointless utility high moved to mid. This makes sense.
Some sort of 4th bonus and/or a role bonus... ok. Role bonus not needed, but I would like to see the 4th bonus.
More slots, MWD sig bonus, messing with base stats-NO.
I fly the wolf almost exclusively, and my target selection (You know, things that will actually stay and fight, not run) includes all faction frigates and destroyers, as well as other AFs, intys, etc.
Boosting AFs this much means they will now be more dominating to faction frigs and dessies than they are now, and atm, a smart flown AF is an uphill fight for a faction frig or destroyer. They will largely refuse to engage with such buffs going live. Youre narrowing our targer selection. What will an AFs role be? To fight other AFs? That's it?
You are adding a fairly purposeless and poorly thought out role bonus; MWD sig reduction? Really? AFs have large mass for a frigate, MWDing around in one, like the falloff/MWD fit wolf, is not easy. It works in certain environments and vs certain targets, but overall, at least from a solo POV, its a bonus Ill just not use. I dont have to fit an MWD, so no real harm done, just.... seems strange.
Yes, i understand that EVE is not about "Solo" play, but there are players who enjoy this. Hell, an entire EVE subculture has evolved around solo frig pilots, many of whom are outstanding PvPers. Is it ok for us to ask that one change not negatively impact solo play? As it sits, Retri aside, AFs are fine. 4th bonus? Yes please, why not, all the other T2s get them. But if its all the same to you, please, keep the 200 base armor and extra lowslot the hell off my Wolf? Thanks.
AFs will still be at the mercy of those things which kill us now; you know, just about all cruisers and BCs? The combination of neuts-drones-webs wont really be overcome by these changes, which, once again, is fine. Nothing about attacking cruisers and BCs is supposed to be "easy" in a frigate. Once again, no harm done... but no real help either.
CCP, what are you doing this for? To make AFs fight other AFs and nothing else, and be pressed into a role as somewhat tankier, although slower, interceptors? I dont get it. This stuff seems like it was just thought up over coffee one morning without much of the above having any real thought devoted to it.
In short? Yeah. I like killing DDs, Dramiels, Thrashers, Catalysts, other AFs, Intys, etc in my Wolf. Please dont take 5/6 of those off my menu simply because theyll refuse to engage? Afs are fun solo "heavy" frigates, especially in brawling configuration. Dont relegate them to pretty much only fighting other AFs please.
Ava, wolf pilot (And yes, feel free to check my KB and/or blog... youll see I have a bit of history with AFs.)
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Miura Bull
Black Rebel Rifter Club
10
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
I am of the same school of thought as Ava. Please leave our assault frigates alone!
I feel as they are now, that they are perfectly balanced and DO NOT need changing in any way shape or form. This might come as a surprise to some but I fully feel that the only people shouting for this buff are the bad pilots who don't know how to fly them as they are now.
Assault frigates are heavy frigate brawlers, I see them as working perfectly as they are now. The proposed changes are wrong on so many levels. Meh. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2555
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Hello
Please post your feedback about Assault Ship balancing in this thread.
Thank you.
The changes are:
All Assault Ships
* Added role bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
About the new role bonus, it looks good, but to be honest I think it goes into a area that belongs to interceptors and in no way helps assult ships, since 50% more or less signature only makes a diference when facing ships with large turrents, every other ship with medium or small guns will be able to hit you as before.
AFs aren't going to infinge on ceptor territory because they're still far too slow and clumsy. Better survivability vs med/large ships is exactly what they need simply because they're unable to dictate range vs other small ships.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Xenial Jesse Taalo
Tactical Nyan Cat Attack Force OMNIMODUS ALLIANCE
57
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why have the role bonus at all? AFs are buff enough.
The Wolf with more armour, less damage, more tracking... o_O |
Shanky McStabber
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Why don't you just turn Assault Frigates into the smaller version of the new Tier 3 Battlecruisers?
Give them bonuses that allow them to fit Medium size guns on a frigate sized platform and toss out the useless MWD bonus (hard to run a MWD with no cap to do it anyways). |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Unprovoked Aggression
13
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Posted - 2012.01.05 16:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
the falloff bonus of the wolf and the optimal bonus of the jag should be switched around since the wolf is a small munin and the jag a small vaga also the enyo needs its optimal bonus switched to a falloff bonus its gallente and not a rail boat also roden shipyards builds missile boats duvolle is the blaster ship company
I think the mwd bonus is rather useless mwds down't work in assault ship range due to scramblers and neuts and its steping on the toes of interceptors a web web reduction bonus or a AB bonus seem to make much more sense even more id like to see a bonus to 10mn afterburner fitting requirements that would be unique and would not make them over power imo I think it would even make sense to add a bonus to 100mn fitting requirements to heavy assault ships
and I think the tracking bonus on wolf and jaguar is negating the tracking advantage blasters have gained over autocannons which is bad
Edit: ok I just took an enyo for a spin and wtf its totally impractical to use a mwd on it with guns and a small reper running it runs out of cap incredibly fast |
NoLimit Soldier
Paragon. Elite Space Guild
13
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Posted - 2012.01.05 16:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree with the changes. AF were kind of a joke prior.
But seriously, switch jag to fall off and wolf to optimal.
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