SO since you so loving stated that they are already more powerful than the other frigates, perhaps *gasp* that's no longer their equal match-up. AFs have always been intended as big-game hunters, hitting well above their weight. Complaining that they now kill interceptors that come in tackle range is just being plain stupid.


Do you seriously expect any self respecting cruiser pilot to die to those abominations?
You are slow and fat (for a frigate), and you have zero range control. ANY Cruiser remains faster than you once they have their web/scram on you. Stop looking at eft/pyfa and go TRY and fly those.

In fact, someone tried to do one of those with an Ishkur earlier today.
I was in a Vexor, and I **** all over him. He didn't even stand a chance.

Notice how SOME completely miss the point. The question is. Would a Interceptor be superior @ tackling a cruiser or battle-cruiser, compared with assault ships after these changes (quick answer is no).

Overall velocity is not the issue @ the moment. Tank is. Which is why the stiletto is favoured over all tackling interceptors. What use is a Ares going 4,000m/sec. If he cannot tackle a single shield-Hurricane or 2, without being shredded instantly. Anyone can go and test tanked assault frigates for the role of fleet tackle and they will fine they're better than Interceptors are with these changes.

Fun thing about a TEST server. You go there to TEST!


-proxyyyy

The first setup uses a neutraliser. Which can operate effectively like a stasis webifer to immobilise another ship if it does not have a nos or cap booster. I used this kind of set-up before in the past with turrets, instead of rockets (perma neut is p fun).The other set-up is more is more focused on damage. Both can permantly neutralise with a warp scrambler and stasis webifier active. This is the kind of damage I do not want to see on a ship with immense defensive capabilities.

Prom we're going to disagree and I'm fine with that. You are in no way going to change my opinion on some things. Since I really don't care what you write and what you're on about. There is no reason you should have any interest in the statements I make. Just leave it @ that (done).

Laerise SFTU.=! You're so lost and you don't even realize it. (since mer D left your corp has really become full of tards). (your RP is p weak too...)

So yeah! Not a fan of increasing damage on this ship @ all.

Vengeance 150 damage per second (without heat)

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Capacitor Booster II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Vengeance, 180 damage per second (without heat) 11, 000 effective hitpoints.

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Capacitor Booster II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


-proxyyyy

@ Prometheus Exenthal

I basically agree with what dark star is saying. 0.0 doesn't need more toys at the expense of messing up the AFs current role (though I admit toys are fun).

LetGÇÖs compare this situation to cutlery shall we? LetGÇÖs say I have a butter knife. It is perfect at what it does, it can cut and spread the butter etc. Now someone wants to know why they can't use it to cut through a steak. So they sharpen it and make it serrated. Now it can cut through a steak, but is not longer able to do its original function as well. This is not an improvement, what you needed was a knife meant for cutting meat in the first place. There is a reason a butter knife is god awful at everything else, itGÇÖs meant to cut butter. The frigs of 0.0 are cloaky ones, and interceptors. The frigs of low sec are AF's, don't take away the only viable class of low sec T2 pvp frigs. Ships are meant to have strengths and weaknesses. By buffing up all of the weaknesses of one class you are not improving the game.

Also, the example you gave comparing HACs to BCGÇÖs and AFGÇÖs to cruisers is invalid. Compare AFGÇÖs to destroyers as that is the equivalent coparison, and youGÇÖll see they are about on par, with a slight edge to the destroyers (which is good).

[quote=DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL]But please, do explain how buffing the weaker AFs to the levels of the stronger ones while leaving those that already dominate at approximately the same level of power is completely unbalancing frigate combat in general....

With the changes, Destroyers fit to combat support still have the edge against AFs.
Obviously some are better than others, and some need some boosts (ie: Cormorant).
But Destroyers (like tier3BCs) are outside of the normal range of ships.

Destroyers aren't quite cruisers, just like the new BCs aren't quite battleships/battlecruisers.
Both of them offer damage above their weight, with tanks below their class.
ie: cruiser dps, frigate+ tanks / battleship dps, cruiser+ tanks
Both of them are only (really) good at one thing and that's taking care of things from a distance.

You don't see Destroyers brawling down cruisers. Their role is anti-support.
So no, as long as Destroyers are able to counter AFs I will continue to compare AFs to Cruisers.

Also, your analogy is pretty bad
This wouldn't take away anything from low-sec, and that's what I've been trying to say for the past few posts.
T2 combat ships are flat-out better than T1 combat ships. T1 could kill AFs before because they were deficient. End of story.

If an AF dies to a destroyer it will be entirely due to piloting error (ie. he is a noob). The over-buffed AFs should be able to take on 2-3 Dessies at once

If an AF dies to a Destroyer it's because the Destroyer was fit to counter support (as intended).
The new AFs can barely deal with a single Destroyer. Your mention of them being able to handle 2-3 of them (assuming fit normally and not some awful proxyy tank) made me choke on my drink. 2-3? What the hell have you been smoking lmao

@Alex
I'm glad we're starting to see eye to eye

The Wolf is alright, I think it's fairly balanced because in order for it to do reasonably high damage, it needs to sacrifice a fair bit of tank. T2 Matari don't make the greatest armor tankers, so I think it's a fair trade.

The Enyo is a bit tanky for what kind of damage it can do. Although for every person I smoke with it, I get easily trumped by someone else in a Wolf or something, so I'm unsure if the extra 200 armor is that bad a thing.

The Hawk, as I said elsewhere is pretty niceley balanced. It's DPS isn't obscene, and the high numbers are pretty much restricted to Kinetic.

The Jag needs more fittings and a probably some extra base shields. Slightly more powergrid and a fair bit more CPU would balance it out nicely with the rest.

[

I'm an extremely active pvper, and I have thousands of kills and 15 popular videos to back it up
I haven't really done too much on TQ since Crucible was released and that has more to do with Iceland, holidays, & testing the AFs.

If Destroyers are still dying to T1 frigates AND able to kill T1 cruisers, you're looking at terrible Destroyer pilots in the frig situation, and terrible Cruiser pilots in the other. A Destroyer in web range of a Cruiser is like fish in a barrel. The same can be said if you're going to bring a frigate in tackle range of a Destroyer.

Multiple frigates vs a Destroyer or multiple Destroyers vs Cruiser are poor examples for balancing, as you can say the exact thing about T1 Cruisers vs something like Battlecruiser or Battleship.

The MWD bonus is a massive bonus to the ships versatility, and like I said if you haven't spent a ton of time in lawless combat you won't understand that. The change increases the target pool to larger ships. While using an AB fit you ever tried catching a Cruiser that doesn't want to be caught? Good luck. At the same level, have you tried the same with an MWD fit AF? It's suicide.

As for countering neuts, a small nos does just fine. I suggest training up your cap/nos skills if you don't find it's sufficient.

@Hirana
If an AF dies to a Destroyer it's because the Destroyer was fit to counter support (as intended).
The new AFs can barely deal with a single Destroyer. Your mention of them being able to handle 2-3 of them (assuming fit normally and not some awful proxyy tank) made me choke on my drink. 2-3? What the hell have you been smoking lmao

Please come to a FW area for your next bout of PVP. I am pretty sure Hirana or one of the other FW vets will teach you a few humbling lessons.