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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
unless this stuff is on sisi, none of what any of you have posted is anything more than opinion and ****/moaning.
let it go on sisi to try before you cry foul you ******* pussies |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:unless this stuff is on sisi, none of what any of you have posted is anything more than opinion and ****/moaning.
Hardly. The issues with AFs have been known for a long time, and it's not too hard to see that this set of changes still leaves some of them resolved. You don't need to test it on sisi just to find out that the Hawk is still impossible to fit, or that the Jaguar's optimal range bonus is still worthless. |
Samaritan Azuma
Amarrian Retribution
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
The ishkur needs a dmage bonus to drones, or like the above poster said +5mb per level aling withe the drone bay space
+5% drone damage/hp per level is reasonable IMHO |
Samaritan Azuma
Amarrian Retribution
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 22:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:unless this stuff is on sisi, none of what any of you have posted is anything more than opinion and ****/moaning. Hardly. The issues with AFs have been known for a long time, and it's not too hard to see that this set of changes still leaves some of them resolved. You don't need to test it on sisi just to find out that the Hawk is still impossible to fit, or that the Jaguar's optimal range bonus is still worthless.
/agree......... also zarak1, this thread is about giving our opinions about the proposed changes, not showing everyone that you have issues with reading comprehension. |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
Assault frigs are slow ships that often have to fight very close to the enemy where the are vulnerable to neuts, webs and scramblers. The MWD sig bonus will not help so survive in the situations they have to fight in and the MWD can even be easily cancelled out by a single scrambler. A reduction to AB-mass increase would be more useful.
The bonus of the Ishkur is still weak and it could really use a damage bonus. Also why give the Enyo another medslot? With a lowslot it has a better chance to keep up with the new Retributions tank or damage. |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
i don't know what you're trying to achieve, but my hawk fits just fine with small booster and mse or medium booster and injector.
CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 23:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Samaritan Azuma wrote: /agree......... also zarak1, this thread is about giving our opinions about the proposed changes, not showing everyone that you have issues with reading comprehension.
This thread is about feedback from SiSi which has the changes in it.. |
Captain Aanderson
Faction House Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 00:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
The hawk got screwed by this update, as was said before it was always a tight fit, and now it has an extra slot without the means to put anything useful in there. For example, to fit a web with a standard AB/scram loadout you need to drop the small neut from t2 to named, the medium shield booster dropped a meta level, the damage control upped to a (much more expensive" pseudoelectron, and the scram schanged to a jb5.
If you want to fit that web on a MWD fit (so that you can control range when your MWD gets shut off because you are in scram range) then you need to drop down to a small shield booster, which turns your tank from meh to shite.
Buffer tanks don't work, because with the two low slots used for damage mod and damage control, you can't get enough Powergrid, even with the 5% hardwire and AWU V, to fit any kind of respectable buffer.
The enyo is now incredibly powerful, either the other ships need to be brought up to this level or the enyo brought back in line.
About the role bonus, the "Role" of assault frigs has never been to be slower interceptors, not to mention most AFs spend the majority of their time inside scram range, so fitting a MWD leaves them slowboating it because scrams aren't exactly uncommon.
The role bonus should be something that would actually benefit them, such as a reduction in the mass addition of an AB, so they can orbit faster, and maybe a 10% increase in speed across the board, but don't try to make them something they aren't. Especially when there is another class of ships, Interceptors, that can do that job better.
I'm glad they are getting attention though
|
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 00:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Captain Aanderson wrote:The hawk got screwed by this update, as was said before it was always a tight fit, and now it has an extra slot without the means to put anything useful in there. For example, to fit a web with a standard AB/scram loadout you need to drop the small neut from t2 to named, the medium shield booster dropped a meta level, the damage control upped to a (much more expensive" pseudoelectron, and the scram schanged to a jb5.
If you want to fit that web on a MWD fit (so that you can control range when your MWD gets shut off because you are in scram range) then you need to drop down to a small shield booster, which turns your tank from meh to shite.
Buffer tanks don't work, because with the two low slots used for damage mod and damage control, you can't get enough Powergrid, even with the 5% hardwire and AWU V, to fit any kind of respectable buffer.
The enyo is now incredibly powerful, either the other ships need to be brought up to this level or the enyo brought back in line.
About the role bonus, the "Role" of assault frigs has never been to be slower interceptors, not to mention most AFs spend the majority of their time inside scram range, so fitting a MWD leaves them slowboating it because scrams aren't exactly uncommon.
The role bonus should be something that would actually benefit them, such as a reduction in the mass addition of an AB, so they can orbit faster, and maybe a 10% increase in speed across the board, but don't try to make them something they aren't. Especially when there is another class of ships, Interceptors, that can do that job better.
I'm glad they are getting attention though
- Hawk trumps Enyo every time, just saying. But yes, the Enyo is a bit powerful and needs more testing - Hawk tanks just fine, tyvm. It's not a bad thing to be a tight fit, they all are. - An AF in scramble range is really really hard to hit before you put an AB on it. Don't knock it before you've tried it - AFs are slower than Interceptors because they aren't to replace Intereceptors
To me, it just sounds like you want a far more powerful Hawk before you realize just how strong it is. My medium boosted Hawk tanks hybrids without batting an eye, and can do 230dps before heat. I think that is just fine CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai |
Samaritan Azuma
Amarrian Retribution
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 00:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jaigar wrote:Samaritan Azuma wrote: /agree......... also zarak1, this thread is about giving our opinions about the proposed changes, not showing everyone that you have issues with reading comprehension.
This thread is about feedback from SiSi which has the changes in it.. Also playing around with fittings on SiSi with an Enyo.. Dual prop fitting works, but no CPU for a mag stab unless you want a meta DCU. Fitting it with a MWD its also very tight. An AB fit seems to work alot better, but its a bit slow..
so you mean feedback = opinions? not sure what you meant there. is the feed back you provided based on your opinions? |
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Syclone Tracy
Black Rebel Rifter Club
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 01:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
As has been said, you buff AF's then T1 frigs have no place in PvP for obvious reasons. But T1 cruisers are also at risk at becoming a bit pointless. So how do newer players have a hope against older players? At some point I think CCP needs to understand that a cruiser is more powerfull than a frig and should remain that way. Otherwise what is the point of having different classes of ships?
I can understand the need to balance things from time to time, however this is straight out buff rather than a balance., |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 01:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
T1 frigates are still very capable ships, but yes some could use some love. The same applies for T1 Cruisers. CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai |
Plutonian
Intransigent
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP, why are you killing off the Rifter? That's what these proposed changes will do... obselete every T1 frig for solo PvP.
I'm not trying to be rude, but these changes seem very poorly thought out. The Jag and Wolf especially will be massively overpowered.
Honestly, how many T1 frigates and cruisers do you see in lowsec anymore? As compared to 2009? Or 2007?
Don't kill off one the most fun parts of the game. Please. Think this one through. |
Xenial Jesse Taalo
Tactical Nyan Cat Attack Force OMNIMODUS ALLIANCE
58
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
I assumed AFs were already obsoleting T1 frigs, and that people just fly Rifters and such because they are not expensive to lose.
Anyway, I don't really get it CCP. Why the role bonus? We weren't missing it before. Why an even stronger Wolf, with more slots for more armour??
Just the 4th bonus, plus one mid for the Retri. That's all we asked.
It's funny how "The Retri needs another mid" still somehow manages to spell "Winmatar."
|
Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 02:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
There are many, many opinions here. I'm going to point out a few things. Currently -
1) AF vs. AF
There are clear winners and losers among the class. The Wolf, for example, can spit out 300 DPS and has falloff up to 17.5km. The Enyo currently, despite having the same slot layout and the more powerful weapon system, only musters a bit over that for DPS. It also has a fraction of the range. It desperately needs to control range whereas the Wolf does not. It's clearly lackluster. The increased damage bonus and extra mid will give the Enyo a comparative boost compared to the Wolf. It's no longer a steaming pile of crap. I use the Enyo as an example but there are other AF you can say this about as well.
2) AF vs. Other Small Craft
In the arena of low sec this is very balanced. You see a wide variety of ships and something like the Wolf has just enough of an Achilles heel for destroyers, faction frigates, and even the famous Rifter to compete with it. In Null sec - most things tend towards BC and up. Increasing AF this drastically will upset the apple cart. But FFS - it needs to be upset. Going back to the Enyo - it will put out 75% of the Catalyst's firepower before modules or rigs are added. Unlike the Catalyst though, it does not have to choose between tank and gank. It can easily double the EHP of the Catalyst without sacrificing the DPS. A Catalyst that tries to tank will have lower DPS then a future Enyo.
Does that mean the Enyo is OP? No. It means the Catalyst needs a serious fitting grid increase. A Thrasher can have 400 DPS and 9k EHP. I don't see it losing it's place.
Interceptors - give them proper T2 resists and increase their HP. T1 Frigates - More fitting, slots, and HP. Everyone is complaining that this buff will obsolete everything else - but the correct argument is that everything else needs to be buffed! Small ships in general are competing with a landscape littered with TE, nuets, and drones.
3) AF vs. Large Craft
This is an area that AF are supposed to be good at but in reality suck. The Wolf? It can fit a Nos, large guns, and active tank. However it can only fill one of the two resist holes of kinetic and explosive. It also can't tank or kill drones due to the lack of a tracking bonus. All of the other AF also have huge problems with nuets. The changes have the potential to radically change this. I really want to field test an Enyo with Ion blasters, a SAR, a nos, and a small cap booster. Something like that has the potential to operate inside of scram range. The new blaster tracking will allow it to tear through drones like a hot knife through butter. And it will be nuet resistant. The Wolf can tank and track better - allowing it to survive better in scram range...
In short - AF can hopefully go big game hunting and are more equal to eachother. They push down all the other small ships. This needs to be addressed with continued balancing with destroyers as well as touchups on Tech 1 frigates and interceptors.
The MWD role bonus? Meh. You could use the old T2 resists bonus that was taken out of the text and slap that on as a role bonus if you absolutely had to say AF had one. If you wanted something creative - 50% bonus to capacitor. They operate against scramblers and in nuet range. AF like to active tank. They get hit with a MWD cap penalty. Give them something that let's them take a beating. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 03:00:00 -
[76] - Quote
Why does the retribution only get a 5% bonus to tracking when the wolf gets a 7.5% bonus to tracking with autocannons which already track better than pulse lasers.
How come the retribution only gets one 5% damage bonus while the enyo gets a 10% damage bonus and the wolf and jaguar gets double 5% damage bonus. The vengeance gets a 5% damage and a 5% rof bonus. Why is the retribution given an optimal range bonus? That the job for the coercer or the navy slicer, not the retribution.
Give the retribution a 7.5% tracking bonus and replace the optimal range bonus for another 5% damage bonus to put it in line with the other dps AF's. |
Zircon Dasher
Zirconia Trade Group
57
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 03:26:00 -
[77] - Quote
Had a real quick spin in the new wolf...
No longer having to choose between plinking at range and going ballsdeep makes this my new favorite ship by a mile.
It used to bug me that if I wanted to tackle larger boats the jag was more efficient. Thanks for giving me one stop shopping!! |
Captain Aanderson
Faction House Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 03:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Captain Aanderson wrote:The hawk got screwed by this update, as was said before it was always a tight fit, and now it has an extra slot without the means to put anything useful in there. For example, to fit a web with a standard AB/scram loadout you need to drop the small neut from t2 to named, the medium shield booster dropped a meta level, the damage control upped to a (much more expensive" pseudoelectron, and the scram schanged to a jb5.
If you want to fit that web on a MWD fit (so that you can control range when your MWD gets shut off because you are in scram range) then you need to drop down to a small shield booster, which turns your tank from meh to shite.
Buffer tanks don't work, because with the two low slots used for damage mod and damage control, you can't get enough Powergrid, even with the 5% hardwire and AWU V, to fit any kind of respectable buffer.
The enyo is now incredibly powerful, either the other ships need to be brought up to this level or the enyo brought back in line.
About the role bonus, the "Role" of assault frigs has never been to be slower interceptors, not to mention most AFs spend the majority of their time inside scram range, so fitting a MWD leaves them slowboating it because scrams aren't exactly uncommon.
The role bonus should be something that would actually benefit them, such as a reduction in the mass addition of an AB, so they can orbit faster, and maybe a 10% increase in speed across the board, but don't try to make them something they aren't. Especially when there is another class of ships, Interceptors, that can do that job better.
I'm glad they are getting attention though
- Hawk trumps Enyo every time, just saying. But yes, the Enyo is a bit powerful and needs more testing - Hawk tanks just fine, tyvm. It's not a bad thing to be a tight fit, they all are. - An AF in scramble range is really really hard to hit before you put an AB on it. Don't knock it before you've tried it - AFs are slower than Interceptors because they aren't to replace Intereceptors To me, it just sounds like you want a far more powerful Hawk before you realize just how strong it is. My medium boosted Hawk tanks hybrids without batting an eye, and can do 230dps before heat. I think that is just fine and the forums ate everything I wrote.
Summary: The changes need to be better thought out |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 04:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
After some testing. The changes are kinda 'meh'.
So if a player wants to utilize the role bonus, they are forced to fitting a mwd. This means fitting for tank. Now that they can last a bit longer flying to and from targets, they will quickly have their role bonus neutered once they are hit with a scrambler. Add one a web or two and possible neut and they are just as useful in fleet fights as they were before this change. Which was nothing.
Yes I am sure these will do well for the mythical solo PvP that some swear still exists in this game and even in very small skirmishes, but outside of those scenarios, the role bonus is simply ineffective where if the role bonus was an afterburner bonus of some kind, the AF could not only enjoy lasting longer traveling to targets, but also enjoy the bonus to help him keep some form of speed when hit with scramblers and webs.
Some say that the AB role bonus was terrible, but that was only because it was only on SiSi for a extremely short time and never had a chance to be adjusted. No the AB bonus should not be as fast as a mwd. This would still leave interceptors a role to catch the really fast stuff. There is in fact a middle ground to be found, no matter how much some people claim it does not exist. To say there isn't is simply daft.
Still, the change is not even a day old so more testing is needed. Anyone claiming the role bonus, new slots and bonus is just what the doctor ordered already is flat out moronic. These need to be tested in as many different forms of fleet fights as possible to see if these changes are good. Not just isolate testing to solo/ultra small combat and wave the results around like it is gospel.
Keep testing and provide feedback guys.
|
Bob Niac
Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS.
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 05:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
Can we look at it another way? What does this version og the ship DO? More importantly.. what does it do that cannot be achieved with another ship?
Back when tier 3 battleships were introduced a very smart comment was made by a developer. "We don't want better, we want different."
Make Assault frigs stand out. Hell make them logi frigs for all I care. How about this: add a 3rd hull. That way you can have 1 tank,1 spank, and 1 utility / racial specific.
And while I am on the logi kick: Logi destroyers, please. or frigates. I don't care. this solves your problem with AFs. then like I said.. change AFs to a paper tiger and a turtle-tank. Roll with intied, escalate with bombers, scout with covops, and if you are feeling generous, lock **** down with EAS.
tl;dr Different. Not better. I <3 Logistics. Proud pilot of all 4 logi cruisers and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrible. |
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Bob Niac
Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS.
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 06:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
also: as I have suggested before. increase mass and increase top speed. give a role bonus to manuvering / turning. and a boost ti ab. the ab wont accelerate quickly. but they will turn on a dime. get in, get out. I <3 Logistics. Proud pilot of all 4 logi cruisers and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrible. |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 06:15:00 -
[82] - Quote
@ Zarnark Wolf can't do that much dps AND have that much range, let alone have a tank while doing all of that. The Enyo is the same way, and has really high dps with a really really shoddy tank. The Wolf also has a tracking bonus now, 7.5% per level. That's 0.74 tracking with 200mm ACs, more than enough to track light drones.
Destroyers have their role as anti-support, and when fit accordingly, they destroy all frigates including AFs. If you are having trouble, it's not the ships fault. However, I will concede that some T1 frigates & cruisers do need some boosting.
AFs do really really well against larger craft. Their largest hurdle (which made them unnecessarily difficult to use) was getting to their targets without getting shot out of the sky. With the new changes that isn't a problem, and unless hit with double webs, all AFs are extremely difficult to damage within a close orbit.
@Soon Retribution could maybe use some more tracking OR damage. Not both. The Enyo gets 10% because that is two combined bonuses of 5%. Unlike the other AFs, the Retribution has a really stiff tank combined with respectable dps, tracking, cap, and range. It's much stronger than you're making it out to be.
@Marlona Nobody is forcing you to fit a MWD, some people will fit an AB. Just like nobody is forcing folks to fit an MWD on interceptors. You still see people flying about in AB inties, and nobody is crying about the wasted bonus there
The MWD bonus makes AFs usable where the majority of pvp happens, 00. ABs are too slow, and MWDs make the ships too fast. Now the ship can move about without being one vollied by some stray rats.
ABing frigates currently do more than 1.2km/s when overloaded. That's not an immense increase in speed, but that is enough for them to be next to immune from incoming damage. You've conveniently ignored my posts on FHC showing the math and results of why it's a bad idea, so please don't try to peddle it here.
Unfortunately for you, there is no better way to test these ships than in actual pvp on TQ. Fortunately for those with a brain, it didn't take much to realize that the AB bonus was overpowered in testing and that the MWD bonus is actually pretty damn good.
@Bob AFs are now the frigate equivalent of HACs, hitting well above their weight. They are capable of killing cruisers with about as much hassle that HACs get killing BCs. CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
334
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
@ Prom
I see your incapable of taking criticism. You seem to think that if someones opinion differs from yours, they must be wrong. I expected more from you really.
|
Volstruis
Mise en Abyme
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
@Prometheus, whilst I understand your nulsec focus, AF's are simply not used there. There are a number of low sec based AF enthusiasts who fly these ships almost exclusively. Why we love them the way we do is up to us.
Your support of these changes flys in the face of your role on the CSM. Can you honestly tell me that all of sudden people will now fly AF's when Interceptors already fulfill perfectly the role you are talking about?
What you are saying, it sounds like to me, is that for a tiny bit of flexibility on the nulsec battlefield, you are totally prepared to ignore and radically effect the only people currently using the ships? And in the process severely hamper a lifestyle choice we as capsuleers have embraced?
It makes no sense to me that you would take this line on a ship class that barely effects you and your fleets but which so massively effects the low sec pirate. |
Plutonian
Intransigent
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Prometheus, I get the feeling you don't give a damn about anything (especially low sec) as long as you get the new toy you desire. Across two threads on two different forums you've tried to shout down, ridicule, and insult every single dissenting opinion. I've yet to see the tactic change even one person's mind. The very fact that you have to resort to such a strategy shows how deeply and personally invested in these changes you are.
You know... I'd love to remove bubbles, capital ships, jump bridges, and interdictors from the game completely. I would very much enjoy a game like that. But given how many players do enjoy that stuff, you'd never see me campaigning to screw them over so I could get what I want.
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Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:37:00 -
[86] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: - An AF in scramble range is really really hard to hit before you put an AB on it. Don't knock it before you've tried it
That's only really true if you're trying to hit them with bigger guns. AF's have no trouble hitting or being hit by other AF's.
And even then If you tackle a Hurricane in say the tankiest of AF's (the vengeance), if that Hurricane is fitted for it the Dual (hopefully staggered) neuts and likely dual webs (if you got caught in a shield cane by a solo vengeance, you should be ridiculed mercilessly) + drones are going to melt your Vengeance in short order.
Now I realise that a nullsec fleet cane is probably not fitted this way, but that is not a reason to state AF's are really hard to hit, if you're not fitted to fight frigs then, no, you won't do well vs. frigs I don't see why that is 'wrong'. |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
334
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 07:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
Another thing is where does the combat interceptors fall in now? Why fly one of those when these new AF's can easily be retrofit to be the same with more tank and dps.
|
Volstruis
Mise en Abyme
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 08:06:00 -
[88] - Quote
My last point @Prom's post and @Marlona, exactly. A role bonus needs to be associated with a role. What you are saying is that AF's are being 'roled' to tackle bigger ships? I thought there was another class of ship designed for this.
My frustration with this thread is that nobody has said, this in a cool, interesting, unique and needed role for this class of ship. My suggestion is to work on the pack mentality idea entirely.
I'd have a Role Bonus that focuses on pack mentality. The wolf pack roam is genius and desperately needed to get new players into PVP. There are a couple of creative ways to approach this, buffs based on number of other AF's (EDIT: well frigates really) in wing or something. Put a cap on it, or something. Make each AF buff other frigates in fleet with agility, tank n gank or something.
I'm not a game designer, clearly, but I'd rather make some suggestion.
But having a CSM delegate tell me he wants another roled tackle ship and to have one of the only people in direct contact with CCP lobbying for it makes me pretty friggin angry. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 08:56:00 -
[89] - Quote
The MWD bloom bonus is excellent, makes them much more survivable when maneuvering with larger hostile ships on the field. I honestly don't get the criticism it's come in for here (and I have to say, I've not really seen any of the critics logged in on SiSi testing the things...). That said, there's no law saying you have to fit an MWD, so I don't see how the bonus screws over lowsec frigate aficionados (and I count myself among their number), and they've all been substantially upgraded in terms of tank/dps/applied dps.
Specific criticisms: the enyo is very very powerful and probably needs to be toned down; the jag is very very weak* and needs the optimal bonus turned into something more useful if it's to offer comparable performance to the others as tank-and-gank boat. That said, it has more potential as a kind of heavy interceptor than the other AFs; I'm just not sure that's a role for which there is a great deal of demand or use.
*Yes, it got buffed, but the others got buffed a lot harder, making the jag by far the weakest member of the AF lineup atm. |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
98
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 08:57:00 -
[90] - Quote
Quote:@Soon Retribution could maybe use some more tracking OR damage. Not both. The Enyo gets 10% because that is two combined bonuses of 5%. Unlike the other AFs, the Retribution has a really stiff tank combined with respectable dps, tracking, cap, and range. It's much stronger than you're making it out to be.
I've flown the Retribution all afternoon yesterday on SiSi and don't agree. Its damage/tank capabilities are not particularly good and it has a serious drawback due to only two mid slots.
In a MWD+Scrambler setup for close range fighting, I've won maybe 10% fights against other AFs (not counting fights against minmatar AFs which are a guaranteed loss).
In a MWD+Web fit, I started winning more and actually stood some chance. Was it too strong? No. Considering that buffing the tracking bonus from 5% to 7.5% isn't going to help nearly as much as a webifier, I would say that the Retribution clearly needs both more damage and better tracking. Once that is on SiSi I'll be able to say more.
The utility highslot is of questionable usefulness by the way. Fitting for a close range brawl is a losing strategy. Nos/neuts have 6km range and as it currently stands, under 6km you're losing in a Retribution unless you were able to stay out of range long enough. Which in turn means that you didn't actually get to make use of the nos/neut and that the fight will end soon anyway. |
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