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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Carniflex on 21/06/2007 11:33:22
So. I have been looking for a short while now at all those POS changes like guns moving outside shields (at least shields hardeners are still inside) and 'we had to disable gun control for empire POS to avoid exploits' in tandem of fixing bug were CONCORD used to defend your POS even if someone declared war on you and I must say my R&D POS is starting to feel somewhat .. fragile.
Thats what I have come up to make me feel a bit more secure.
Large Caldary Tower (it's R&D pos in high sec afterall)
# Battery 1
3x Medium railgun battery
2x Small railgun battery
# Battery 2
2x Small Blaster Battery
1x Small Autocannon Battery
1x Stasis Web Battery
# Battery 3 and 4
5x Torpedo Battery (10 torps all togehter)
# Battery 5
8x ECM Battery (2 of each racial)
2x Warp Scrambler Battery (one above and another below tower)
1x Kinetic hardener
2x Exp hardener
2x EM hardener
1x Corp Hangar array (offline, fuel + ammo)
Battery 2 (short range one) would be placed so that all other batteries are at optimal range from it. Most of it is offline ofcource during peaceful operations. When wardeced then planning to online it all and pack up labs and move them into saefty of station. After it gets reinforced then it's going to be dead anyway so might as well skip the strontsium (does anybody know if cpu using structures go still offline under 25% shields even without reinforced mode due to strontsium ?) assuming it would keep my hardners and launchers from going offline if not then meh, Might as well dump in enough stronts for 3d 6h.
I would go for full missile setup but that would make it too easy to warp shuttles around it or use fast interceptors to outrun my missiles so I feel I need at least some guns. Main purpose of that setup is to make as painful as possible high sec speedbump on caldary tower. Defence gang (if going for reinforced mode also) would be max 30 pilots or approx 10 if not pressing for reinforced mode. Batteries are grouped in sets of 5 in hope that some day I can control my guns in empire (I did train that skill a bit before patch just don't have anchoring 5 atm to push it for lev 5 after it was rised in rank).
Any additional ideas and/or suggestions to make it better ?
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Juha85
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:28:00 -
[2]
torpedoes for what?
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Boosters! |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:33:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Carniflex on 21/06/2007 11:33:58
 Originally by: Juha85
torpedoes for what?
Against battleships. Tower has weapon bonuses only for missiles and ECM and ECM is relatively useless. Due to signature radius of 10 it takes those e-war batteries almost 2 minutes before they get any battleship locked. Torps make sure that they can't just jump in shoot at my guns for 1.5 minutes and then jump out and then back in.
Don't have also enough powergrid to mount reasonable amount of guns to make that not possible. Ofc guns are better, it's just that caldary tower in general sucks for combat (there were plans to make missiles not take any cpu so they would not go offline in reinforced but apparently that did not make it into patch).
edit: typos
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Juha85
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:36:00 -
[4]
Yeah I was just wondering if you would be better off with cruisemissiles instead as the torps fly so damn slow :)
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Boosters! |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 11:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Juha85
Yeah I was just wondering if you would be better off with cruisemissiles instead as the torps fly so damn slow :)
True. But cruise missiles do not have damage multiplier. On missiles relation 4x small = 2x medium = 1x large turret is not correct (I think it still holds for turrets altho bigger guns have more range after patch). So torps are smallest missile with damage multiplier.
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Big Al
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:04:00 -
[6]
A battleship gang isn't going to stick around to kill a hardened large tower unless you REALLY **** someone off.
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Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:24:00 -
[7]
Any ideas for a small tower setup?
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Michael Caldar
Any ideas for a small tower setup?
Yes. If I would need to use small tower for R&D and would not like to scoop it up if war deced (like would not have enough stadnings left to re anchor it afterwards) then I would use
Small Minmatar tower (enough cpu for 3 labs)
8x small artillery (4x on opposite sides)
4x small autocannon (2x and 2x at optimal ranges to arties)
1x sensor dampener battery (just to fill rest of the grid)
Altho to be honest if small tower gets attacked it's going to die. Especially now when you can kill it's guns. Small guns at least have signature 30 so it's relatively annoying to try to kill them. Tower it self is too cheap to bother with hardeners. Just grab your labs and run for station as soon as you get wardeck.
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myii
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.21 12:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Carniflex
I would go for full missile setup but that would make it too easy to warp shuttles around it or use fast interceptors to outrun my missiles so I feel I need at least some guns.
Would a Stasis Webification Battery prevent this?
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: myii
Originally by: Carniflex
I would go for full missile setup but that would make it too easy to warp shuttles around it or use fast interceptors to outrun my missiles so I feel I need at least some guns.
Would a Stasis Webification Battery prevent this?
Not really.
1) It's now considered large gun (10 mm sensors) so it takes approx 5 minutes for it to lock small ships (against what it's actually useful)
2) Web battery range is a bit too limited (150 km optimal, 0 km falloff) and it's possible to orbit tower outside web range. While small guns can hit stuff there it's possible to get away from missiles (or speed tank them so they do almost no damage). Altho granted, it's relatively expencive setup to outrun cruise missiles with battery bonuses.
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Calladen Nimitz
Caldari
Sovereign Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 21/06/2007 14:30:43
This entire patch is very concerning for Empire POS owners for multiple reasons.
- All guns and weapons moved outside the shield where they can be destroyed.
- EW is "nerfed" and lock times are outrageous (see THIS THREAD for details).
- Empire owners can't direct weapons fire from POS like lowsec owners can even on declared war enemies.
- With the low EW ships like interceptors and shuttles that are superfast can warp around and drain the ammo out of a POS weapons system before the big ships move in and face no opposition.
As far as I see it this is a big nerf on Empire POS owners and beefing up defenses is about the only way to go. I'd been using the setup below but I'm looking for suggestions now on how to improve it. It's in a .5+ system so no Dreads but I need to worry about regular fleets now. The way the guns shot out from the shield there are four definite "batteries" around the tower as thats how I had originially laid them out inside the shield.
TOWER INFO
1 Large Amarr Control Tower
1 Photon Scattering Array
1 Heat Dissipation Array
1 Ballistic Deflection Array
1 Explosion Dampening Array
BATTERY #1
1 Large Beam Laser Battery
3 Medium Railgun Battery
1 Medium Artilery Battery
1 Small Pulse Battery
1 Cruise Missile Battery
1 Stasis Webifier Battery
BATTERY #2
1 Large Railgun Battery
1 Medium Beam Laser Battery
1 Small Autocannon Battery
1 Cruise Missile Battery
1 Warp Scrambling Battery
BATTERY #3
1 Large Beam Laser Battery
1 Medium Artillery Battery
1 Small Pulse Laser Battery
1 Cruise Missile Launcher
1 Stasis Webifier Battery
BATTERY #4
1 Large Railgun Battery
1 Medium Beam Laser Battery
1 Small Autocannon Battery
1 Cruise Missile Battery
1 Warp Scrambler Battery
POWER USAGE
4,937,500 of 5,000,000 Powergrid
5,410 of 5,000 CPU
If I offlined all the labs and the hangar array I'd have 4,240 CPU and 1,012,500 Powergrid for additional backup weapons (anchored but not online).
BACKUP WEAPONS (anchored not online)
1 Photon Scattering Array (150,000power/500cpu)
1 Heat Dissipation Array (150,000power/500cpu)
1 Ballistic Deflection Array (150,000power/500cpu)
1 Explosion Dampening Array (150,000power/500cpu)
2 Small Pulse Laser Battery (155,500power/0cpu)
2 Cruise Missile Battery (80,000power/80cpu)
My war plan would just be to packup the labs and hangar and park them in the nearby station as except for those items most stuff isn't really expensive. I'd like to think a big defense setup like this could at least hurt someone if they decided to wardec me. I know nothing lasts forever against a determined enemy though. Still it would be nice if I could direct the fire of my turrets against a war enemy so at least I'd have a fighting chance.
A couple changes I can see myself making is going to more lasers (eliminate ammo and that shuttle exploit deal) and a few other things. If anyone has suggestions let me know all my towers are basically setup like this already but Id make good changes to ensure longevity.
The though of sitting inside the shield watching shuttles and intys race around using up my ammo while all I can do is sit there would be enough to make me seriously question even playing Eve anymore. Allow us the chance to defend our POS with controlled weapons against declared war enemies.
I am going to run a few tests with this setup (and super-tanked apocs) to see how it does. Last time I did this I was vaporized almost immediatley. I'll take fraps this time and should be fun seeing how long I can hold out.
Calladen 
SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS |
Domosan
Caldari
Incoherent Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:00:00 -
[12]
Here's my suggestion
Large Cadari tower
3x mobile labs
16x shield hardening arrays
Lowest shield % is approx 75%
This means a world of boredom/pain for even a 20 man battelship gang and what 20 man gang is going to mindlessly sit for hours upon hours shooting your pos?
If you cannot manage 23/7 coverage, having a limited set of guns/ewar wont do you any good. The guys that want to hit your tower will find out when you are not on - take 15 minutes to kill your guns/ewar outside the tower and then have a field day with your tower because of the much lower resists.
Better to bore them to death
Regards
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Captain Agemman
Minmatar
Legio Ultra
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:35:00 -
[13]
Gave this a little thought, and for hisec, where large guns aren't really needed, one can come up with a few funny ideas.
HiSec R&D POS - "War Mode" (Large Minmatar Tower)
Together with 1 corp hangar and 1 shield hardener this can be onlined. Summary:
- 6 Medium Artillery
- 6 Medium Autocannons
- 6 Small Artillery
- 18 Small Autocannons
- 5 Warp Scrambler
- 1 Warp Disruptor
The guns can be "picked off" by a large enough gang that operates close to the 250km max-lock border, but should require a lot of repositioning. Any comments by the "POS takedown specialists" maybe?
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.06.21 19:59:00 -
[14]
I would go for slightly less autocannons and at least 2 shield hardeners (for both 0% resist). Reason for less autocannons is, that it is too easy to outrange them especially after last patch (they got range nerf).
Also while equal coverage is quite good it's hard to control and maintain ammunition in those guns that way. Thats why I think 2 to 4 clusters of long range and 2 clusters of short range is optimal (2 clusters of short range to avoid fast ships orbiting one cluster too close for them to track). Short range guns provide cover for long range guns.
Other than that it seems quite good setup to discourage small gank gangs going for it or for it's guns.
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Wyehr
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.21 22:58:00 -
[15]
If you think that empire POS owners have it bad, you should see what is happening in lowsec/0.0 right now. I'll just say that three guys can destroy everything outside the bubble (all guns and EW batteries, for example) without any risk from the POS itself.
[ 2007.03.18 18:45:59 ] (notify) Typhoon belonging to Gandolf self-destructs. |
Effei Gloom
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 23:01:00 -
[16]
low sec directed pos guns and dreads could attack you
high sec only bs can attack you, no directed pos guns, sounds fair, doesnŠt it?
- next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days - |
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