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Jing'Caste
Caelum Technology
The White Wolf Initiative
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 05:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, I am new around here, an i'm looking to start a bond. As we know t2 production via invention can be profitable, and BPO production if you have multiple t2 bpos can be extremely profitable. And i'm looking for the chance to get in on those profits. Evil's Toy current renter is leaving, and I wish to take his spot. At the moment I am very ill-equipped for this task, and that's why i'm here.
2.5% monthly, hopefully, one investor, and continues on for however long I need to produce off of these BPOs. I would require back-up investors as well.
Handing over 20 billion isk is a big thing to do when it's someone who's new. For that, I have an idea to make this as secure as possible(and make it work so that I can produce). My idea is that Grendell(or another trusted 3rd party, I prefer Grendell) holds the investor isk from the start, pays Evil the first months rent, and then allowing me to access the isk to purchase materials and produce off of the BPOs.
 Is there any other way to make this bond more secure?
Thanks! |
Khanid Voltar
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 06:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
a 20b unsecured bond for a newcomer at 2.5% isn't the most appealing of deals for me. Yes I see the bit about Grendell but, meh, not really floating my boat atm.
Do you have any previous industrial or trading experience that can be corroborated?
KV
edit - I guess you could save up for the first months liquidity and then transfer the finished goods to a reputable third party to trade on your behalf, releasing the material cost back to you and sending the profits back to you when they are realised.... or even just paying you a set amount for the finished goods and selling them themselves.
But for 2.5% it really is a helluva lot of hassle for minimal gain. Not sure if there is a reputable third party who would trade on your behalf either. |
Jing'Caste
Caelum Technology
The White Wolf Initiative
4
|
Posted - 2011.04.08 06:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm primarily a mission runner, however I have done some small scale manufacturing of t1 items, mostly industrials, retrievers, and strip miner I's. Trade experience, well, i can sell my items, and i learned the hard way on how to crash a market unintentionally.  I crashed the retriever, Itty V, Itty IV and strip Miner I markets within 2 weeks of producing. I won't make that mistake again. My plan to sell the items are to sell wholesale, or to a variety of day traders, 0.0 traders, and I myself selling them around New Eden.
Other than that not really, its a live and learn type of thing. Also the interest rates aren't set, those can be, quite generously, increased. |
Khanid Voltar
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 07:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tbh it does seem as if you havent researched the Bond offering very well, and if you havent done that then it implies to me that perhaps you may not have done enough research into the minutia of successfully running a T2 Manufacturing corp. The interest rate may be negotiable but your initial offering shows you dont really have a clue how this sort of thing works.
I suggest you gen up on previous first offerings and start smaller, a lot smaller, with a lot better interest rate. And get some collateral that can at least cover part of the loan request.
To give you an idea, Grendell was not too long ago offering 3% on a 100B bond. You have no reputation and yet are offering 2.5% unsecured? You really think that will wash?
Unsecured loans to reputable individuals tend to go for 10-15%.
Secured loans to reputable individuals tend to go for 3-5%
Effectively (to me) you seem to be saying
'I've had this great idea how to make isk, but I want my investors to take all the risk for a p*ss poor interest rate. I havent got any experience of manufacturing T2 stuff but I reckon it might work, and if it doesnt who cares, my investors got 2.5% for a couple of months'
Never going to happen in a million years mate. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 07:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not gonna happen |
Jing'Caste
Caelum Technology
The White Wolf Initiative
4
|
Posted - 2011.04.08 14:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've felt like I have done a pretty sizable amount of research into this area. I'm in the works of creating a full profit spreadsheet, the cost for the t2 components via manufacturing. You're right, I've never done manufacturing on this scale before. I will encounter some operational problems in the beginning, and as I go along, however, these can be prepared for, and easily fixed I feel. I understand that a massive amount of work is going to be needed to generate the profits off of these BPOs, especially on the market side of things.
I won't lie to you, THIS WILL BE A CHALLENGE, and i'm up for it.
Edit: On the side note, I have been and will be talking to more manufacturing corps to get some more information on the matter. See what they do to sell their items and the manufacturing process(usually done by invention these days, so i'm not quite sure how relevant some of the information is)
I will be producing the BPOs off of a POS, for improved manufacturing times and transporting the goods via multiple freighters or sell wholesale out of the manufacturing system. |
Graic Valente
Valente Galactic Enterprises
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 14:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jing'Caste wrote:I won't lie to you, THIS WILL BE A CHALLENGE, and i'm up for it. Well, make a start and come back when you've established yourself some. 20 B is a big ask for nearly any purpose and with all due respect frankly mate you might as well jump in the vat if this is a new roll.
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Shar Tegral
7
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Posted - 2011.04.08 14:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jing'Caste wrote:I've felt like I have done <snipp> easily fixed I feel. <snip> I won't lie to you
Feel? felt?
Please don't think I'm slamming you but you obviously have not listened to the very good advice given to you by Khanid Voltar. What you feel or what you state has no value here... ... yet. Anyone (and in fact everyone) can say exactly the same things. Until you are a known quantity you're assurances mean nothing. I'm sure Grendell will likely be obliged to be involved (though I wonder if you've asked him yet) this is still no security. From scam possibly but not from incompetence.
It is said only wise men make truly horrendous mistakes as only wise men are given the means and opportunity to make those mistakes. This is only partially true. Fools will always make horrendous mistakes if given the same opportunities.
Which one are you?
That is the unanswered question.
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Atima
House of Marbles
3
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Posted - 2011.04.08 16:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Not gonna happen
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Jing'Caste
Caelum Technology
The White Wolf Initiative
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 17:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shar Tegral wrote:Jing'Caste wrote:I've felt like I have done <snipp> easily fixed I feel. <snip> I won't lie to you Feel? felt? Please don't think I'm slamming you but you obviously have not listened to the very good advice given to you by Khanid Voltar. What you feel or what you state has no value here... ... yet. Anyone (and in fact everyone) can say exactly the same things. Until you are a known quantity you're assurances mean nothing. I'm sure Grendell will likely be obliged to be involved (though I wonder if you've asked him yet) this is still no security. From scam possibly but not from incompetence. It is said only wise men make truly horrendous mistakes as only wise men are given the means and opportunity to make those mistakes. This is only partially true. Fools will always make horrendous mistakes if given the same opportunities. Which one are you? That is the unanswered question.
I didn't ignore it, my reason for reluctance to this option is that the opportunity at hand probably will not come around for another year or so. (depends on the winning renter's time using them) I'm very uneasy to the thought of letting this opportunity pass without trying. But, Shar, you really know how to manipulate the mind. I'll start small, collateralize, and get used to t2 production, marketing, and the concept of running an IPO/BOND.
Thanks to everyone who offered constructive criticism.
Shar, nice grammar catch by the way, got to stay in the present tense 
And a special thanks to Khanid Voltar for offering intelligent and helpful criticism in a respectful manner. |
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Khanid Voltar
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 18:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
I must admit I am feeling the love today 
Likes for all! |
Jing'Caste
Caelum Technology
The White Wolf Initiative
4
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Posted - 2011.04.08 18:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Khanid Voltar wrote:I must admit I am feeling the love today Likes for all!
Haha, If you're on later tonight, do you mind explaining the IPO/Bond system, I have a few questions about Hexxx's template from awhile back. Pretty much i'm just looking for a good conversation as I set-up some things tonight. |
Khanid Voltar
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sorry I'm not in game much and I am not the best person to ask... I have never run an IPO or a Bond, I'm an investor.
Go through the archives to find threads marked paid or complete. Look at the OPs, look at the history of their successful bonds, learn from their successes and failures. There are public chat channels advertised too if you want to ask questions.
You can access the archives still via the link at the top of the page. |
Hexxx
EVE Financial Services and Insurance
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jing'Caste wrote:Khanid Voltar wrote:I must admit I am feeling the love today Likes for all! Haha, If you're on later tonight, do you mind explaining the IPO/Bond system, I have a few questions about Hexxx's template from awhile back. Pretty much i'm just looking for a good conversation as I set-up some things tonight.
You could ask me yourself. =) |
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