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darth raida
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Posted - 2007.06.25 10:56:00 -
[1]
With the changes made to pos' in the most recent patch i.e. having guns outside the pos bubble a whole new set of problems have been created and has turned pos' into a liability more than a safe haven for your ships.
The issues are having guns outside means they can be popped incredibly easily even with the so called ômassive hp increaseö only takes a couple of carriers and some sentry drones and they re gone within a few minutes. That in itself is unacceptable as it means the enemy can just sit outside your pos in regular ships. Now another topic of discussion could be, with this in mind, why would fleet commanders take the risk and siege their dreads when they can just sit their 200 man blob outside and kill towers that way? No risk involved. Another point could be with the amount of lag you could be inside the pos bubble one minute, then without warning drift outside and get killed by the enemy fleet sat outside. However this topic will tackle something far more annoying and in my opinion broken about pos, the password system.
The way the game is going and the current political situation in game I see nothing in the future accept for one group of alliances vs. another group of alliances it takes no genius to see that. I will briefly go through the main problems of having passwords in such wars.
Logging in/out: If you are not in the alliance who owns the pos you are using for fleet ops, station siege etc. if you log at a pos you do not disappear, I donÆt care what is suppose to happen if you log back in at a pos you bounce, believe me. Now before when pos where actually safe i.e. when they had lots of guns online, if you bounced no big deal, mwd back inside, warp to the tower. However now with nothing but incapacitated guns chances are there will be an enemy fleet sat at your pos or at least a few inties. This is obviously very bad news for you as especially if your in a capital or even anything bigger than a cruiser chances are youÆll be tackled before you regain control of your ship.
Typing in a password: I believe itÆs unfair if you enter a password incorrectly once you could end up loose your ship. Say youÆre clever and log at a safe spot, you ask for the pos password and you enter it in. If you get it wrong (a typo) and there is an enemy fleet sat at the pos again you will most likely die, a cheap way to go especially if your in an expensive ship.
Changing of pos passwords: If you change a password everyone who is not in your alliance is ejected from it. Again not a problem before but now with the hostile fleet sat outside its game over for the majority of your fleet. That is just madness (no Sparta reference intended at all) and isnÆt even worthy of an explanation.
EnemyÆs entering pos: Spying is part of the game I am not going to condone that at all. However for a few small enemy ships to be able to enter a pos unchallenged by anyone and bump out ships is ridiculous. People said pos bowling was bad, this is worse in my opinion and I can see happening more and more. Each alliance on either side in every major war has spies on ts, in gang, forums etc. it is very easy to attain a password given the amount of times it is spammed out in a given day. The normal solution to this simple problem would be to change it daily, but owe wait, you canÆt do that as everyone not in your alliance will be ejected from it.
The solution to all this is very simple indeed. If you are blue to the alliance/corp who has the pos up you are allowed in the bubble, if you are not blue you are not. Very simple indeed and solves all these problems. Either that or make pos actually safe again, make the guns repairable from inside the tower, give the operator the choice of having the guns inside or out, having a big damage bonus if they re outside just something.
This part of the game needs attention ASAP.
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Jesters Knight
Eclipse Enterprises
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.06.25 13:21:00 -
[2]
I agree, there should be a way to allow entry based on standings.
the password should only be used if you dont have someone specific set or if it is a locked POS allowing only certian few into it.
Highsec POS's
Skip the wait and research in the fast lane (lets see if the webserver holds) |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.06.25 13:39:00 -
[3]
Have you popped some POS guns post-patch? They're supposed to get 90% structure resistance while the control tower is online, giving a large turret as many effective hitpoints as an unhardened control tower.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Jesters Knight
Eclipse Enterprises
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.06.25 13:58:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Nyphur
Have you popped some POS guns post-patch? They're supposed to get 90% structure resistance while the control tower is online, giving a large turret as many effective hitpoints as an unhardened control tower.
as for the POS guns and whatnot I cannot comment.
however allowing people in the forcefield based on standing would elemenate one of the more "usefull" bits of information that a spy could get.
Highsec POS's
Skip the wait and research in the fast lane (lets see if the webserver holds) |
darth raida
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Posted - 2007.06.25 13:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: darth raida on 25/06/2007 14:06:27
Yes nypher i have, the problem is 90% of not a lot is still not really a lot. Like I said it takes a few carriers and few minutes with sentry drones.
Currently in the northern conflict in S-E there is a grand total of 0 pos in system out of god knows how many with their guns not incapacitated. Thus both sides just dump their fleets outside each others towers and pop any unlucky people who fall victim to what I've mentioned above.
I don't have a problem with spying but it's literally impossible not to know the enemies pos password in big wars. The amount of times it is written in gang chat or said on comms is ridiculas and with the amount of allies and different alliances involved secrecy is almost impossible and with no guns of pos' that creates and very big problem. The current setup is simply not fair especially for cap ship pilots, with the current setup if they leave the shields in any shape or form they will get scrammed and webbed very quickly thus bouncing = death.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nyphur on 25/06/2007 14:02:49
Edited by: Nyphur on 25/06/2007 14:02:41
Originally by: darth raida
Yes nypher i have, the problem is 90% of not a lot is still not really a lot. Like I said it takes a few carriers and few minutes with sentry drones.
90% resistances multiplies effective hitpoints by ten. Unless those are small guns, a few carriers will not take them out in a few minutes with sentry drones.
EDIT: Wait, you're referring to incapacitation, not destruction, aren't you?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Der Ewige
Cataclysm Enterprises
Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: darth raida
Yes nypher i have, the problem is 90% of not a lot is still not really a lot. Like I said it takes a few carriers and few minutes with sentry drones.
Currently in the northern conflict in S-E there is a grand total of 0 pos in system out of god knows how many with their guns not incapacitated. Thus both sides just dump their fleets outside each others towers and pop any unlucky people who fall victim to what I've mentioned above.
Yeah you are right. 90% of not a lot is actually even less. But 10 times of not a lot may be a lot.
But now to the question that really bothers me: Do you guyes already have ppl with capital remote repairers and Starbase Defense Management?
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http://www.stillbruch.ch |
darth raida
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:13:00 -
[8]
Nypher, I mean incapacitated, but since normally there is little chance of remote rep as carriers are not willing to risk their ships (go outside the bubble) and rep them they may aswell be destroyed.
Originally by: Der Ewige
Originally by: darth raida
Yes nypher i have, the problem is 90% of not a lot is still not really a lot. Like I said it takes a few carriers and few minutes with sentry drones.
Currently in the northern conflict in S-E there is a grand total of 0 pos in system out of god knows how many with their guns not incapacitated. Thus both sides just dump their fleets outside each others towers and pop any unlucky people who fall victim to what I've mentioned above.
Yeah you are right. 90% of not a lot is actually even less. But 10 times of not a lot may be a lot.
But now to the question that really bothers me: Do you guyes already have ppl with capital remote repairers and Starbase Defense Management?
For capitals to remote rep stuff they must be outside the pos bubble which as I ve mentioned is not a good thing at all.
As for starbase defence management, theres no guns left to control. 
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:13:00 -
[9]
I can confirm that this is an issue. I was at the S-E enemy Pos yesterday, watching support ships orbit just outside the shields looking for someone trying to get in or out. We were 'Camping the POS', something that we never were able to do before.
It looked like a school of Sharks trying to get at the diver in the Shark Cage.
On the other hand, this type of warfare DOES get all ship types involved. It would be nice to have a checkbox on the POS which allowed entrance based on Alliance Standings, or perhaps tied to Alliance Docking Rights at stations they own.
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Ovno ConSyquence
Amarr
The Plebians
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:36:00 -
[10]
Sounds to me like its working as intendid, at least now battleships arn't 'support' anymore.... |
Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:50:00 -
[11]
I agree... We lost 3 carriers to this pos password BS.
Two things need to happen.
1) A box for allow pos bubble entry based on standings above xxx
2) A way for the guns to be worthwhile right now.
#1 is easy to change imo
#2 needs some design work. Either guns need to be more effective or the guns need to have their powergrid reduced so you can put more on or something. As I stated in another thread... Right now poses are worthless and are less fun then before... Sure now support can go to the pos, but now there is almost no risk. |
Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence
Sounds to me like its working as intendid, at least now battleships arn't 'support' anymore....
When an enemy can enter the pos password and bump ships out... That is not working as intended. |
Nimitz Alexander
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.25 14:51:00 -
[13]
you cant accidently 'wander' out of a POS shield. they are biig... set speed to 0.0 and youll be fine.
Or do you mean you were taunting people at the edges and screwed up? 
Hell we were harrassing a FIX pos for hours the otherday and people kept trying to sneak out and snipe us... not one... not two... but 4 BS and HACs were killed over two hours trying this 
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John McFly
Ganja Labs
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.25 15:06:00 -
[14]
There's the "go AFK and your ship randomly starts speeding off" bug, I think its never been patched.
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Jesters Knight
Eclipse Enterprises
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.06.25 15:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nimitz Alexander
you cant accidently 'wander' out of a POS shield. they are biig... set speed to 0.0 and youll be fine.
Or do you mean you were taunting people at the edges and screwed up?
Hell we were harrassing a FIX pos for hours the otherday and people kept trying to sneak out and snipe us... not one... not two... but 4 BS and HACs were killed over two hours trying this
I dont know about after patch but before you could accidently wander out. setting sepped to 0 and sitting there the collisions detection would sometimes go nuts and you would start slowly drifting.
even if you had something on approach you would do this.
if you are sitting in a POS the only way to gaurntee you wont move out is to orbit the tower iteslf
Highsec POS's
Skip the wait and research in the fast lane (lets see if the webserver holds) |
Vortigern
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Posted - 2007.06.25 19:42:00 -
[16]
I agree that the way the pos password/shield entry system needs some work.
Some comments/suggestions:
1. make the use of passwords optional. by this i mean make it so access can be granted by standings and/or password. That way to password is only needed for someone who doesn't meet the normal standing requirements.
2. assuming standings could allow entry, let me tell from far away somehow whether i will be allowed through the shield either via password or standings. that way if i have a problem, i know it before i bounce off the shield.
- 2b. if there is a way to tell if the password works remotely, there needs to be something in place to prevent guessing passwords by brute force/dictionary style attack.
3. if we have to stick with passwords, create a little in game control panel to let me manage my known passwords and perhaps indicate if they are valid. this control panel could even add functionality of storing locations/bookmarks of known poss rather than using normal bookmarks. Someone should be able to send me the location/password remotely to allow me to warp in as well as pass through the bubble.
4. with regard to the pos guns, i agree that some tweaking is in order. right now the way things play out, the guns often sit incapacitated. it is far easier to incapacitate them than to keep them online. it would be nice for there to be a little more balance to the siege of a pos than the game has today.
5. the spy/espionage/social engineering aspect of all this is a neat addition to the game in my opinion. I'm not opposed to the general idea of someone being able to leak a password. I would like to see some more tools in place to allow larger, more complex alliances to better manage pos/shield access. passwords works ok for a small group. Large multi-faction alliances need a more scalable way to manage this problem.
ccp, we appreciate your attention to issues such as these when they become apparent.
Vortigern
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.25 20:07:00 -
[17]
To be honest, the issue with the guns being too easy to kill could be solved by halving or quatering the lock times. At the minute, everything is just absurd, even if you dont want to risk carriers to neut arrays, you can warp in 50 battleships, knock down a gun in 120 seconds and warp out, before the POS will even get a shot off. Repeat 10 times, and you have a POS which can then be easily reinforced by the battleships with no risk. This no-risk POS destruction totally negates the idea of the defender having the upper hand when numbers are close, or even when the defender is at a slight disadvantage.
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BECKARD
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.26 02:11:00 -
[18]
Edited by: BECKARD on 26/06/2007 02:10:42
Having just had 3 carriers ganked by these methods, by lowlifes not worthy of mention by name, this must stop ASAP. CCP, you owe lots of people reimbursements and apologies for such halfwitted programming and design decisions. I won't go into what moronic thought it takes to come at such a ******** design decision, but lets just put it to rest, CCP you were wrong, now fix this crap. I miss the days of playing eve, now this just sucks with no end in sight until pos's are changed to be standings based only, no exceptions.
Oh and 90% resists on struture means jack crap when the gun goes offline when it gets any structure damage, please, know what you are talking about before posting your "opinions".
<insert 1337 sig here, #ERROR/> |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.06.26 02:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aelena Thraant
When an enemy can enter the pos password and bump ships out... That is not working as intended.
But.. That's exactly how it's intended to work. The password permits access to the shield. How else would you expect it to work?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
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