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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kwint Sommer
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Posted - 2007.06.27 06:48:00 -
[31]
A fight of more than 200 players isn't fun regardless of the lag. There's absolutely no strategy or skill on the part of the individual pilot. It's just someone barking a list of targets at you until you pop.
I believe the battle that took down the BoB titan had around 200 and it had reasonable lag.
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Vile rat
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.27 06:59:00 -
[32]
Reposted from the locked thread.
Fleet warped and engaged a smaller force. We were aware of the jump bridging and and chose to engage anyways. At first my modules responded fine and I was engaging a hostile target, but then while my attack messages continued my modules stopped responding. Gang chat was fine and things appeared normal, but something was very wrong. I changed my crystals to short range but it just gave the icons that show an in progress ammo change. Meanwhile ships were flying around and doing things but my ship would not respond to movement commands and the weapons remained in ammo change mode. On TS virtually everybody was reporting similar problems and nobody was able to target or engage successfully. It was as if our whole fleet were "turned off" for lack of a better term. Not to go all nerd on everybody but it reminded me of the Bstar galactica pilot episode where the whole fleet was just disabled and the cylons just went all happy on them.
It sat like that completely unresponsive until I started taking damage messages (and damage was appearing at a normal rate as if I were normally engaged) and eventually popped. Once I popped my pod was 100% responsive in sharp contrast with my poor lost geddon but unfortunately since my pod wasn't armed the battle for me was over
So yeah. Something was very very wrong in that fight and this is the 3rd time since rev 2 that something similar happened to me and the other two times it wasn't even a battle, just cruising around a nearly empty system so I don't know.
From what I can tell every ship that was in system before the jump bridge occured pretty much broke on the spot whereas the ships that jumped in while lagged, were responsive and they mopped up the larger force with little to no resistance.
Anybody claiming that this was somehow a cheat or an exploit is just plain stupid but anybody claiming that this was normal lag is unfortunately wrong. Something has really been broken in rev 2 and it's causing some fairly serious problems.
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jeffb
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:04:00 -
[33]
Perhaps the reason BoB didn't have the same issue as everyone else in system did is because... they weren't in system when the server went to ****. They jumpbridged in after, whether the jumpbridge was the actual cause of the issues or not, and thanks to the session change had 100% synced and fresh clients.
There are major issues with desyncing post Rev2, would be interesting to hear from a dev what if anything they changed.
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Ivan Kirilenkov
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:07:00 -
[34]
Friendly reminder to keep it on topic, that means no accusations of cheating etc - if you suspect foul play, petition it or bring it to the IA-department. Also, no trolling and "can I have your stuff" etc.
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Original Species
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:08:00 -
[35]
This is why I dont do fleet ops..I stick to small fast moving gangs and avoid any situation that may cause me to lose my ship via game mechanics...
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Jaikar Isillia
The Vinlanders
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:14:00 -
[36]
repost from other thread
I've read every comment and here's what I've come away with.
TCF were having a mighty fun time killing a pos in a 270 man fleet.
Bob came in.
The 270 TCF fleet lagged and desynched not being able to do anything.
BoB did laggggg but not to the point of being unable to play.
Bob proceeded to then destroy the TCF fleet while they could relatively do nothing, some of them logged off to hopefully avoid getting killed while they could do nothing.
BoB lost 4 ships.
People can draw there own conclusions from that.
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Vile rat
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:17:00 -
[37]
*snip* - removed reference to deleted post. -Ivan K
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Lady Trade
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:39:00 -
[38]
 Quote:
But serioulsy? How can this be acceptable?
It isn't acceptable. Lag is usually so terrible during any battles with more then say 100 ppl in local that most of the fun is lost very quickly and gets replaced by extrem frustration. Disconnects, 30 seconds to activate a module and session changes that take 2-5 minutes are absolutly normal for EVE. Thats been the case since i've been playing and obviously CCP don't really care or they would have fixed it instead of implementing wonderful things like EVE Voice and Heat.
So in a nutshell - yes, unplayable lag during battles is totally normal and (at least for me) the major funkiller in EVE. |
Myz Toyou
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:41:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The solution is to not see a force of 100 enemies and think "HAY IF WE BRING 300 WE CAN BEAT THEM!"
Lies
CYVOK > All you station jockies better get out their and start killing these idiots
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Irob Urore
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:43:00 -
[40]
death to blobs! .. either utilize the blob in shifts to minimize lag or don't go in expecting 400 people to no lag out a system.
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Ceros X
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.27 07:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Irob Urore
death to blobs! .. either utilize the blob in shifts to minimize lag or don't go in expecting 400 people to no lag out a system.
This has nothing to do with normal latency and/or blobs. Please re-read the thread.
People are getting desynchronized at seemingly random times flying around by ourselves, orbiting POSes by our lonesome, etc.
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Marcus Kartum
Free Mercenaries Union
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:03:00 -
[42]
I can see only one solution to that. Stop fighting! Yes, i know how it sounds, but think about it. CCP is encouraging everyone to build bigger ships and fight in epic battles, however they are totally unable to provide us with enough hardware resources to do such... or they just don't care, which is more likely for me after the answer of one of GM's in my petition. And that is just hypocrisy!
So c'mon, no more battles bigger than 50 vs 50, no more POS warfare and lets see what they are going to do. |
WiZZyWiGG
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:12:00 -
[43]
The de-sync problem (or whatever it really is) is becoming a common issue since Rev2 launched. I experienced it myself the other day after jumping through a gate into an enemy gang and have my screen stay static but being able to use mods/change speed/move around without my screen moving. I had to relog in the middle of the fight, luckily I didn't get killed but I would of been annoyed if it had killed me.
In the big fight last night I didnt get it, took ages to load the system after I bridged and then I missed the whole fight due to never loading the grid due to lag. Sounded fun by TS though 
Whatever this de-sync issue is it needs looking into, it easy enough to deal with lag and adapt to it but something broken like this needs a fix.
___________
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Heidi Engineswat
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Marcus Kartum
I can see only one solution to that. Stop fighting! Yes, i know how it sounds, but think about it. CCP is encouraging everyone to build bigger ships and fight in epic battles, however they are totally unable to provide us with enough hardware resources to do such... or they just don't care, which is more likely for me after the answer of one of GM's in my petition. And that is just hypocrisy!
So c'mon, no more battles bigger than 50 vs 50, no more POS warfare and lets see what they are going to do.
I have reprocessed my titan, and bought a navitas with t2 miners. Why fight big battles when you can macro your way to glory! I never saw an MM have lag troubles.
I know everyone and his alt has already said this:
but get your Sh*t together CCP. The 'endgame' in eve, aka omfgbigfleetbbq, is broken. therefore your product is starting to stink of inferior.
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joshua cane
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: WiZZyWiGG
The de-sync problem (or whatever it really is) is becoming a common issue since Rev2 launched. I experienced it myself the other day after jumping through a gate into an enemy gang and have my screen stay static but being able to use mods/change speed/move around without my screen moving. I had to relog in the middle of the fight, luckily I didn't get killed but I would of been annoyed if it had killed me.
In the big fight last night I didnt get it, took ages to load the system after I bridged and then I missed the whole fight due to never loading the grid due to lag. Sounded fun by TS though
Whatever this de-sync issue is it needs looking into, it easy enough to deal with lag and adapt to it but something broken like this needs a fix.
same for all tcf pilot in bs in 6t3 and many times in small skirmish since 4 days
need to delog and relog to fix this 
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Ambre Blanche
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:27:00 -
[46]
Reposting here as my post was locked (how weird :) ).
The facts:
Yesterday at about 20h00 EVE Time, a coalition force jumped into the 6T3I-L system to do some POS cleaning in Alliance space. I was part of the support force camping a gate while the big guys were doing the real job.
About 20 minutes later, a cyno appeared in the middle of nowhere. Support were ordered to warp on it and engage the incoming BoB & pets force. Dreads were (luckily) ordered out. Lag at that time was bearable as my ship warped to the action in less than 15 seconds. When I reached the cyno, I counted about 30 TCF and 20 BoB apparently in fight. I begin confidently to target the enemy and activate my launchers. Nothing happened. After a few seconds, I realized nothing was really happening at all in the game. Both the overview and the main screen were in a loop, displaying the same frozen scenery of the same 50 guys dancing the same ballet. After 1 minute, I began to smell disaster and ordered my ship to warp out. Again, nothing happened. My fellows gang mates were experimenting the same thing and begining to really worry for their ship, while the coolest of us were preaching for some patience. This very weird situation lasted more than 12 minutes. After that, seeing that no one in our entire gang of about 90 people was able to do a single thing, the FC ordered us finally to relog. It took me maybe 2 minutes to be able to log back. During that time, people started to realize as they successfully logged back in that they were for the most part, dead. I was rather happy to see that my ship had escaped the massacre, the warp-out order I gave very early having obviously be taken into account.
The frustration:
For the patient reader, nothing new in this report. Lag happens in EVE are you about to say. The thing that puzzles me though is this: how can one side be able to fight and slaughter 80% of the other side while about all members of this other side are obviously out of synchro? Is EVE T2 available somewhere and we forgot to pick it up? I am usually rather happy to be the target of a competent BoB or Outbreak fighter in a fair fight. But this "battle" was really a fraud :(
The idea:
Since it's early begining, the Everquest client has a very precise lag-o-meter. From green to red, one can instantly have a very good reading of the quality of his client/server connexion, including packets losses and out of synchro events. It was considered vital for the Everquest community 8 years ago and since then, I can't understand why we don't have the same tool in every MMO. Dear CCP developpers, please give us this kind of reliable tool and create a kind of "Combat Advisor" which will prevent all ships in a system to activate any weapon until at least 90% of the people in local are able to fight.
Thanks,
Ambre.
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necronarcosis
Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:41:00 -
[47]
when are you going to learn, the game can not support a fleet fight with those number's
we have seen it many times before, we will see it many times again.
Dont your Fleet commanders ever learn, Small groups multiple targets make the enemy split there forces. Help the servers cope Rather than being the problem.
Alternatively keep blobing keep the 300 stong gangs/ fleets and accept what happens and shut the hell up about lag this and lag that when YOU are the problem.
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Epong
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:50:00 -
[48]
Dear CCP,
>> Keep your Nvidia, t-shirts and mug for buy hardware plz.
about battle in 6t....
Have train a lot of skills since i play on Eve, have paid a lot of Ç too.
Now i take part in fleet battle, the only thing that have see is a BLACK SCREEN [10-15 min]. Funny, very funny. 
I undesrstand that 200 players in empire = lag (market, missions, contracts...a lot of data)
but i can't in 0.0 when the market is "empty" and when nobody run mission just standind.
(players...Try Jita for understand... always 500 characters "Hey mum i'm in jita" ;) 
Think about it.
If you can't give a good game play to yours Ç's cow, say it. 
So may be it's time for me to quit eve...because Rev-II need for speed urgently
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Icarius
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ambre Blanche
the FC ordered us finally to relog.
thank you ... you said it, your fc finally ordered to relog, while bob members are ready, ordered to stay here and die here ... and they stay.
then you relog one by one ... tir aux pigeons
Yes there is lag , for everyone, but concerning your fc orders, ccp can't do anything if they are crap.
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WiZZyWiGG
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:53:00 -
[50]
Edited by: WiZZyWiGG on 27/06/2007 08:52:28
Originally by: necronarcosis
when are you going to learn, the game can not support a fleet fight with those number's
we have seen it many times before, we will see it many times again.
Dont your Fleet commanders ever learn, Small groups multiple targets make the enemy split there forces. Help the servers cope Rather than being the problem.
Alternatively keep blobing keep the 300 stong gangs/ fleets and accept what happens and shut the hell up about lag this and lag that when YOU are the problem.
That's just not true though, I have been in many fleet fights that have had hundreds in local and only had minimal lag and been able to fight fine. It can be done, just not consistently.
___________
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Lady Trade
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:57:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Lady Trade on 27/06/2007 08:56:16
Quote:
Alternatively keep blobing keep the 300 stong gangs/ fleets and accept what happens and shut the hell up about lag this and lag that when YOU are the problem.
lol so now WE are the problem huh? Not CCP for not being capable to keep their promises to fix the damn lag for the last two years? No of course not... it's the stupid players that don't just wanna mine veld but actually would like to fight... yeah man... i really see your point. </irony> |
Vile rat
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.27 08:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: WiZZyWiGG
Edited by: WiZZyWiGG on 27/06/2007 08:52:28
Originally by: necronarcosis
when are you going to learn, the game can not support a fleet fight with those number's
we have seen it many times before, we will see it many times again.
Dont your Fleet commanders ever learn, Small groups multiple targets make the enemy split there forces. Help the servers cope Rather than being the problem.
Alternatively keep blobing keep the 300 stong gangs/ fleets and accept what happens and shut the hell up about lag this and lag that when YOU are the problem.
That's just not true though, I have been in many fleet fights that have had hundreds in local and only had minimal lag and been able to fight fine. It can be done, just not consistently.
Yeah everybody involved in this fight has at this point probably been involved in dozens of huge laggy fleet battles. We all know how to handle lag and deal with it.
This however was not normal. The only way to correct this problem was to relog as something broke bad in system causing wide scale desync. I'm not whining about losing a ship or a battle. Stuff happens sometimes and ships are replacable for a reason.
Something new and disturbing has broken and it's happening quite often. This is not normal lag, this is a new bug.
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necronarcosis
Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: WiZZyWiGG
Edited by: WiZZyWiGG on 27/06/2007 08:52:28
Originally by: necronarcosis
when are you going to learn, the game can not support a fleet fight with those number's
we have seen it many times before, we will see it many times again.
Dont your Fleet commanders ever learn, Small groups multiple targets make the enemy split there forces. Help the servers cope Rather than being the problem.
Alternatively keep blobing keep the 300 stong gangs/ fleets and accept what happens and shut the hell up about lag this and lag that when YOU are the problem.
That's just not true though, I have been in many fleet fights that have had hundreds in local and only had minimal lag and been able to fight fine. It can be done, just not consistently.
not 400 on a single grid
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Ambre Blanche
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Icarius
Originally by: Ambre Blanche
the FC ordered us finally to relog.
thank you ... you said it, your fc finally ordered to relog, while bob members are ready, ordered to stay here and die here ... and they stay.
then you relog one by one ... tir aux pigeons
Yes there is lag , for everyone, but concerning your fc orders, ccp can't do anything if they are crap.
You really should improve your reading skills. Do you happen to know it's even become useful to you some day in real life? Our FC ordered to log out after we became VERY anxious about our ships, being unable to do a single thing for something like TWELVE minutes after the initial engagement.
I don't care about lag. I care about lag that's choose a side. I think it's very strange. Don't you?
Ambre.
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Epong
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Icarius
Originally by: Ambre Blanche
the FC ordered us finally to relog.
thank you ... you said it, your fc finally ordered to relog, while bob members are ready, ordered to stay here and die here ... and they stay.
then you relog one by one ... tir aux pigeons
Yes there is lag , for everyone, but concerning your fc orders, ccp can't do anything if they are crap.
one by one...but we have try to joint the FEST... i'm not speaking about BOB/TCF/GOON/RA and many more power...i talking about a "space combat game". With a cool game play. A playable lag
for everyone i just remember something....about GM neutrality (and so dev neutrality)...no one can help me? i cant remeber all of story.
Plz dont say that you have lag...you have in...and warp quickly. Have you really lag?
With all of that..."Magic Eve" is down for me...they must work on it or i hope a lot of players quit this "joke".
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Darcuese
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:10:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Darcuese on 27/06/2007 09:11:25
Edited by: Darcuese on 27/06/2007 09:09:37
Originally by: Vile rat
Something new and disturbing has broken and it's happening quite often. This is not normal lag, this is a new bug.
New bug .
No reloging will help to fix this. You just have to stick whit random chance you have been given for that/any fight.
Myself been involved in more then enough huge fights and expirianced situation from waking up in station before loading screen, till "normal" shooting at others while my fleet m8s didnt see targets
EDIT: Reloging will even screw things up for others in that system (my opinion, but i might be wrong here), regarding lag, then help those that try it
me, myself and I ------> |
Gozmoth
Amarr
Altera Odyssea
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:14:00 -
[57]
Lag is a problem, but not the massive one. Desync is.
Because desync will make the server logs perfectly clean : they will show nothing strange or faulty. Desync means that CCP cannot check for client bugs or faulty network management easily.
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:14:00 -
[58]
Nobody in this thread is 'right' or 'wrong' about having won/lost the fight due to thier actions at the time or such. There is no real way to prove it, what both sides do agree on though was the lag was a real pain...
Lag won, and that is the unacceptable truth. The game can't be the epic empire domination stategy that it needs to be without servers that can support such large battles.
So stop blaming each other and start looking at the real culprits?
_________________________________________________________
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
Decimo
Amarr
DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:14:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Yes, but this is true for every mmorpg. How come a WoW server can handle 100 people shooting at eachother (remember Tarren Mill?) without severe lag? Thats just one server, not a supercluster like Eve has.
Im not really understanding why the amount of data sent should be any different. Locations, damage, server doing calculations for hits and misses etc. The Eve cluster is hell of a lot stronger than one of those WoW servers ever was.
I think its basically just old code laying around. The new network layer might make things a lot better.
Heck, not just Tarren Mill, I experienced a full fledged assault on IF once, the only lag I had was a drop in framerate from my own computer.
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Darcuese
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.27 09:14:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Darcuese on 27/06/2007 09:14:45
Originally by: Ambre Blanche
Originally by: Icarius
Originally by: Ambre Blanche
the FC ordered us finally to relog.
thank you ... you said it, your fc finally ordered to relog, while bob members are ready, ordered to stay here and die here ... and they stay.
then you relog one by one ... tir aux pigeons
Yes there is lag , for everyone, but concerning your fc orders, ccp can't do anything if they are crap.
You really should improve your reading skills. Do you happen to know it's even become useful to you some day in real life? Our FC ordered to log out after we became VERY anxious about our ships, being unable to do a single thing for something like TWELVE minutes after the initial engagement.
I don't care about lag. I care about lag that's choose a side. I think it's very strange. Don't you?
Ambre.
Still, it doesnt change the line in quote you took. He did order you to relog. Wrong decision. End of story. Put contract of your stuff to this char please. Lost more ships then i planned lately
me, myself and I ------> |
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