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Developers Using Inside Knowledge To Get Rich? My Concern.

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InnerDrive Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:30:00 - [1] Edited by: InnerDrive on 27/06/2007 02:42:27 Ive watched the interview with hillmar on eve tv about previous accusations a few times. And as i was watching it with each new topic he raised i was getting this sinking feeling of that inside knowledge abuse by devs will become more and more commen as we go along (he for example said something about a bank that will monitor prices on goods etc). And the worst part of all is that hillmar does not recognise it as a possible issue yet.. So i have to yet again raise my concern about this. Especialy so long they have free database access without being monitored if they are abusing knowledge gained trough their work at ccp to become really rich with their playing characters. Major health issues and this crap going on in game have resulted in me putting eve asside for the time being (as spending most of my life online playing eve to try reach some alliance warfare goal seems very pointless now to me). Im still of the same oppinion as i was before and i know hillmar will strongly disagree but commen sense dictates otherwise. How can u justifie developers playing a mmorpg thats so much about information and isk? This question u have to ask urselfs. what kinda inside information can devs use to become super ultra rich in the game. And think about the impact of say a dev being a director in a corp organising construction and trade while at the same time working at ccp developing new stuff into the game. Isk means players (near free dreads and hacs tend to do that), and theres a lott of power in numbers and no shortage of isk supply. Woud it be completely unpluasable to think that when ccp personel plays eve, they play it like anyone else, to get rich, to see their corp gain power in the universe? And woudent they use their knowledge in their heads to reach those goals? (small example: @ccp office, average day at work: we are putting those and those complexes and stations there in that region that drop those and those items @live servers: WAIT at work we just put those uber expensive items in those new complexes in that region over there so we will get our characters that are directors to order my alliance to conquer that specific region DING) The sources of dev players knowledge: Can they seperate the knowledge they gained from developing the game or looking at the database and working at ccp from their knowledge from just playing? And is it at all defendable that they are getting involved in pulling the strings in alliances that have eve global impact? And maybe the most important question of all i woud like to ask: Just how far are devs playing on the live servers allowed to go in getting involved with taking charge of a alliance that conquers the entire universe and becomes centillionairs trough inside knowledge abuse? My previous post about this issue somehow vamporized so i had to make this new one, all i ask for is that CCP will aknowledge that inside knowledge abuse is a real issue, A LOTT of the community allready agreed that it is, hundreds of possible ways have been raised before and i will refrain from repeating em all. There IS an issue and as the game grows and DEVS keep having the same options without being monitored they will grow in power trough knowledge. Why this is a issue? The main one: Whats the point in fighting a war against a enemy that has no limits in funding(=players)? There are people that play this game a few hours a day just for fun but there are others that play it 16 hours a day, for these people in particular it becomes more than just for fun, u want to reach goals on alliance warfare level. But the fact ur possibly up against a DEV makes it pointless to try and to invest so much of ur free time on. CCP will u aknowledge developer inside knowledge abuse as a issue and work on monitoring and preventing it?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:33:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 27/06/2007 02:33:04 Quote: Just how far are devs playing on the live servers allowed to go in getting involved with taking charge of a alliance that conquers the entire universe and becomes centillionairs trough inside knowledge abuse? So basically your post boils down to another claim that BoB is led by a bunch of devs and is going to conquer all of EVE, right? 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Llerrad Gabemid	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:34:00 - [3] i'd say the more likely scenario is a friend of a dev wants the info. he gets it and uses it. i'd think devs personally are less prone to it that doesn't mean they won't help out friends though.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 27/06/2007 02:33:04 Quote: Just how far are devs playing on the live servers allowed to go in getting involved with taking charge of a alliance that conquers the entire universe and becomes centillionairs trough inside knowledge abuse? So basically your post boils down to another claim that BoB is led by a bunch of devs and is going to conquer all of EVE, right? Points to his signature, err wait you said it huh... ____________ Dark Shikari> If at first you don't succeed, whine about t20.
pwnedgato kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:41:00 - [5] Edited by: pwnedgato on 27/06/2007 02:41:01 Originally by: InnerDrive worthless drivel aren't you the guy who posts in every dev related thread with the same "concern"? I may not be completely clear on this but don't the data exports contain data that can tell you where you can find the best drops and such? Doesn't that website that has all the mission and npc info on it tells you what each rat drops and the odds of it dropping etc? Edit: I asked questions, yet I provided no answers. Pardon my rudeness I shall rectify that now 2 + 2 Does in fact = 3
Maj Woodcock Minmatar United Space Aillance USA	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:41:00 - [6] Has Hellmar and/or CCP hired a third party ethics adviser yet? If not then I believe CCP is in a fancy world playing their personal game at the common player's base expense. So yes I agree with OP. Just my personal opinion PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT *SO SAY WE ALL* "we will deal with it as harshly as our policies allow."
InnerDrive Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 27/06/2007 02:33:04 Quote: Just how far are devs playing on the live servers allowed to go in getting involved with taking charge of a alliance that conquers the entire universe and becomes centillionairs trough inside knowledge abuse? So basically your post boils down to another claim that BoB is led by a bunch of devs and is going to conquer all of EVE, right? No i intentionaly never refered to BOB in my post as this issue is not about BOB. Its about the developers and their roles on the live server content with their playing characters. "Conquering all of eve" as u refer to it is also the most extreme form of what a developer coud do to our community. It can be on a smaller scale but still affect thousands as the game grows. Im allready concerned when inside knowledge is abused to get very rich to the degree that in affects other players in some way. Im not even talking about taking away players "homes" etc.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:57:00 - [8] HOW ISNT this thread getting locked as the rant that it is? lol Irony: Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:03:00 - [9] I don't see why it should get locked and I don't see it being reduced to another BoB whine thread, because it's not. The points he raises are valid ones. They're some of the only valid questions that still linger after the whole threadnaught debacle. It's not about any particular alliance, it's about how you can use insider knowledge to get rich, and limiting who has access to that information. I'm pretty sure CCP has said that they keep it on a 'need to know' basis, but I would like to see an official statement about it. If I had known about changes in rev2 I coulda made some serious cash... - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Evis Tyrer	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Richard Aiel HOW ISNT this thread getting locked as the rant that it is? lol Really? It's jsut someone bringing up and discussing what is a genuine concern for a lot of players in eve. Personally I think the whole thing is being blown totally out of proportion. Okay, so we've had these incidents of devs manipulating the game to thier own ends. They'd have to be crazy to carry on doing it in this current climate- assuming there where others. So how's about we leave off it and let the GM's and devs do thier jobs? Maybe then they'll start reimbursing lost stuff again...
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:17:00 - [11] oh yeah, is been like that forever.. remember when they converted the T1 expanded cargo hold BPOS into T2 versions? (short form is: T1 was seeded by lottery.... while basic on market) how people offer 10s of millions to the ignorant for the T1 bpos that will turn into the T2 bpos... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Petrothian Tong oh yeah, is been like that forever.. remember when they converted the T1 expanded cargo hold BPOS into T2 versions? (short form is: T1 was seeded by lottery.... while basic on market) how people offer 10s of millions to the ignorant for the T1 bpos that will turn into the T2 bpos... The T1 BPOs were selling for 4-8b and up long before the devs even made the decision to make them into T2, IIRC. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
InnerDrive Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Frug I don't see why it should get locked and I don't see it being reduced to another BoB whine thread, because it's not. The points he raises are valid ones. They're some of the only valid questions that still linger after the whole threadnaught debacle. It's not about any particular alliance, it's about how you can use insider knowledge to get rich, and limiting who has access to that information. I'm pretty sure CCP has said that they keep it on a 'need to know' basis, but I would like to see an official statement about it. If I had known about changes in rev2 I coulda made some serious cash... Coudent have said it better myself :). Thanks
violator2k5 Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Frug The points he raises are valid ones. They're some of the only valid questions that still linger after the whole threadnaught debacle. didnt ccp already write something about a monitoring process that will keep a eye on their devs / gm's actions? Originally by: Frug If I had known about changes in rev2 I coulda made some serious cash... if you had used the test server to actually check the mission loot table yea you could of made some "serious isk", not that i did tbh was more interested in the changes there were making to the ships. anyway the point of that is you dont need to be anything other then an actual player to jump on the test server when theres major changes like recently. just simply scouting those changes and determining what ones will actually affect the market more can help you get isk in your pocket. as far as im concerned atm we have far to much isk floating about the eve universe and need more isk sinks. T2 has dropped considerably, Faction prices arent to bad and so erm yea more isk sinks ty ---------------------------- BOB 4 LIFE NOT JUST 4 A DAY ----------------------------
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Frug I don't see why it should get locked and I don't see it being reduced to another BoB whine thread, because it's not. The points he raises are valid ones. Because any CCP = bad thread gets locked. They dont like it Irony: Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true
InnerDrive Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:25:00 - [16] Edited by: InnerDrive on 27/06/2007 03:28:53 Originally by: Dark Shikari The T1 BPOs were selling for 4-8b and up long before the devs even made the decision to make them into T2, IIRC. [/quote Shikari no offense but how do u know when the devs make a decision about something? Hillmar even specifically stated in the interview on eve tv that CCP trys to finalize ideas before they make it public in anyway that they are gonna do something. This is also why the information in the dev blogs/test servers will never be enough to prevent all inside knowledge abuse.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:29:00 - [17] MSN FTW Irony: Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true Dark Shikari> Keep saying it itll come true
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:34:00 - [18] Originally by: violator2k5 if you had used the test server to actually check the mission loot table yea you could of made some "serious isk", not that i did tbh was more interested in the changes there were making to the ships. anyway the point of that is you dont need to be anything other then an actual player to jump on the test server when theres major changes like recently. just simply scouting those changes and determining what ones will actually affect the market more can help you get isk in your pocket. Nah I didn't, and maybe with a lot of patience and some smarts I could go and do that, but that doesn't fully address the issue. Numbers can be changed in the last minute before a release. If you'd asked me the day before rev2 was put out if I thought they'd use the same numbers in the LP store in tranquility I'd have said no. But that's not really the issue. Remember when they recently replaced some of the astronautic rigs (i don't remember what rigs) with some much cheaper rigs (I think) or any other time they make changes like that? We have no way of knowing. The question is who does? They tweak things now and then, and if you know in advance you can profit. If you've got a freighter and lots of capital, you can profit a lot. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:34:00 - [19] Originally by: InnerDrive Shikari no offense but how do u know when the devs make a decision about something? Hillmar even specifically stated in the interview on eve tv that CCP trys to finalize ideas before they make it public in anyway that they are gonna do something. This is also why the information in the dev blogs/test servers will never be enough to prevent all inside knowledge abuse. There was never a spike in the price; if there was insider information known, the price would have spiked instantly due to competition from the people who knew the information. The price steadily rose along with all other similar BPOs, so there is no real sign of misconduct, at least nothing obvious. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Aleksi Maksimovich	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:38:00 - [20] T2 Tinfoil Hats for sale in Jita, cheap! In all honesty, when you really get down to it, people everywhere suck. Aleksi you ask, how does this refer to this post? No game will ever be 100% perfectly free of cheaters, hackers, exploiters, etc untill NO ONE PLAYS IT. Are there devs at CCP that might tell someone where something happens & profit indirectly or directly from it? 100% yes i promise you there is. Do these people make their living making video games? Yes. Would I risk my professional career (its a small industry, word gets around) to cheat at an online game? Personally, fux no! Ask yourself if you would risk not being able to feed your kids to cheat at a video game. Answer with a no? Most people would, thus this post. Now ponder the plight of the poor people at CCP. Innundated by "omfgwtfbbqsauce you cheated!" RIGHTLY SO! Did they fix the problem after a public investigation & try to set right what had been done wrong? Hell yes they did. Are they now more careful? Yes. Do we need to have some guys follow the devs around all day every day to ensure they dont cheat at a game that they make their living from? IMHO No. Do we need posts everywhere on the forums that create feedback loops of distrust for CCP? IMHO no. If you dont like games that mimic life, pick one with a save button. If its not fair go back and do it over. CCP does not have that luxury, and they do a damn good job of running this show all things considered. In summary of a long rant: - T2 Tinfoil hats for sale cheap in jita - if you dont trust ccp, quit eve - leave the devs alone, i want a better game not 1984 in eve form - if you quit send me your stuff - stfu about bob already, the horse is dead, flogging it just makes a mess - sign up for the monitoring program if you want to help, or make a USEFUL suggestion to help improve eve and or CCP - play eve, fly safe Everything in this post is my opinion only, and should not reflect on my corp. My spelling mistakes are my own, any words injured in the making of this can apply in game for compensation.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:41:00 - [21] my friend got her (expanded cargo hold II BPO) for 100 mill... lol but yeah, she wont tell me how she knew though =P probley test server lol -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:17:00 - [22] One time, one of the devs hinted in a post in a random topic on the forum that control tower prices were going to be increased soon. He may not have meant to and just let it slip out or he may not have really cared because it was one flippant post. The price change was not reflected on sisi and was not in the patch notes but I took a risky chance and ploughed all my isk into control towers. After the patch, the price had doubled. I saw a lot of other people selling control towers and asked them why they bought them. Most of them admitted they read the same forum post as I did and thought the risk worth it. Prices rose steadily after that until they ended up at 3.6 to 4 times the normal price. I sold at around the 3.0 mark, which was probably a mistake. It was very risky on my part as control tower prices could have stayed the same. The next time information was released of an npc-sold item increasing in price was with tractor beam bpos, which people bought up in their thousands. When that patch hit, the price DIDN'T change and the patch notes had a note saying that the change was being repealed, so really it can go either way unless you have real insider info. I know that your thread is about the potential for actual developers with actual inside info to abuse it but I thought those stories were relevant enough. It shows how tricky a thing it would be to manage even if a policy were made on it within CCP. You'd need to have a record of who has access to what information because knowing if the information was publicly accessible is the key to labling insider trading. When it's done with info that is availible to the public, it's just market speculation and there's nothing wrong with it. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
heheheh Singularity.	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:26:00 - [23] Quote: spending most of my life online playing eve to try reach some alliance warfare goal seems very pointless now to me lol your poxy alliance have warfare goals ?
John Bishop Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:40:00 - [24] to be honest i really dont belive that the devs will abuse their insider knowlege. we are not talking about a large game company that put out hundreds of titles and have devs working on several titles a year. CCP is a small grass roots company. a large part of the devs put together this game from scratch formed a company and realized their dream. i would believe they would rather take a back seat and see where their respective corps and alliance take them. to see how well the populace respond to the changes made rather than pilot them through it. for a creator its not so much playing the game that gets them going its watching its creation take life and do its own thing with creation. so no i dont think the devs get a kick out of using inside knowlege to beat a game they created. whats the challenge in that. the fun is watching the world they created evolve around them and then finding ways to challenge that world to evolve more and in different ways. thats what i believe. CCP keep up the dream _______________________________________________ Originally by: Rodj Blake Large Beam Spec 5 is a really good skill to have, because it almost puts you on a par with people using T1 projectiles. [:lol:

Rauth Kivaro Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:49:00 - [25] This topic has been discussed repeatedly, and several long-running (hundreds of pages in some cases) forum threads have dissected it repeatedly. If you have information or evidence supporting accusations of dev, ISD or GM misconduct, email [email protected]. Thanks, forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website


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