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Ulrich Sternaxe
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Posted - 2007.07.02 07:52:00 -
[31]
To the OP, I'd like some actual details about your experiences with bad investments. Some names please, otherwise this thread looks a bit like an attempt to discourage investing and I can think of a couple of reasons a vet running his own succesful business would like to discourage additional investing and prevent succesful IPO's and competitors coming on the market.
Allthough that's probably not the reason, I think you just made some bad decisions in the past and need to vent these bad experiences to someone, understandable, but without actual corps names, not very constructive. As a new investor poeple can still not look for the signs of a scam or patterns, if you give some names of your investments that went wrong, possible investors might be able to do their own investigations based on forum posts and possibly see patterns. For example, one thing I noticed is that it isn't smart to invest in an IPO that raises enormous amounts of ISK (more than 20 billion for example) because these turned out to be the most risky ones because no character is worth THAT much risk, no matter what their reputation is. The ones I saw that turned out te be scams were almost always the big IPO's, where lots of ISK could be scammed, it's the small ones that often turn out much better (like O'mara or Rivers Enterprise for example). I think the reason for that is that it's not so tempting running of with a couple of billion than it is running of with 20 billion plus, regardless of how old the character is and what their reputation is.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.02 11:18:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Gully Smit
Initially u missed the point and indeed u feel threatened enough to assume a lot.
Blah, blah, blah. I'd love to hear what I'm feeling threatened about as I've completely settled any bond issues and closed out all market activities prior to the last patch. Heck I've not even bothered with Eve, much, the past two weeks as I've been playing Wow. Originally by: Gully Smit
Shar ur authority is valuable here and everywhere u post....plz don't become an ayatollah...< o man mispelled.
This just confirms, totally, that you know very little about me and very little about the kind of respect that is given to me. It is 90% grudging respect as I couldn't give a rat's ass about being a pariah or not. If the point of "being a pariah " was a door mine would be a well greased revolving door. One that sometimes reaches warp speeds I go back and forth so damn fast. My sig used to be, for many years, "From Hero to Zero and back again - A reporter's tale." A small bit of plagiarizing of Mr. Tolkien there but it gets the point across quite well. I don't type because I care what you, or what anyone else, thinks. Not one damned bit. I only type what I care to share about what I think. And I don't care, never have - never will, how my statements will be taken. Not one damn bit. (Typos though annoy the hell out of me - my own of course.)
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Gully Smit
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Posted - 2007.07.02 12:46:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Gully Smit on 02/07/2007 12:48:45
phoenix technologies
redstorm rising
new caldari investment bank
united eve mining assoc.
prigogine tech
eib
emfi
.. the emfi fallout has not happened yet...and new caldari investment bank..i think they cashed out.
I will look for the remaining losers.
at some point I started sending the ones that were scams to an alt to keep the trash out of my wallet. pretty sure just emfi remained after about 1 year of no investment activity.
Shar...I enjoyed exchanging blows with you. Not going to get into it much more because it has become counterproductive.
Debate is a good thing. Education is a good thing too.
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Dreck Morrison
Amarr
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.07.02 15:40:00 -
[34]
I just wanted to chime in on this thread. I have invested and mostly made out ok due to luck with my big bet. However, I only put about 10% of my net worth into public investments due to the risk and no ability to protect your investment. I agree that game controls are needed and the ability to take over investment assets is needed when the CEO/fund manager just gets bored with the game and stops logging in. However, Eve is the same as RL markets (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aQOUukpyniLU) is an interesting article that says basically 1/4 of all mortgage loans in the USA are at risk of default. Wouldn't that be a bummer if you loaded up on those type of investments. You would write articles that said all mortgage loans are scams....
My history of investing so far:
EMFI - 10,000 shares - no dividends bought cheap as a trial through ESGE with my alt to see how it worked.
AATP - 20,000 shares - 5 months of dividends (15% ROI) ongoing status unknown. So could be a 100M+ isk write off.
ISS - 600 shares - big bet by me that these guys were real and wanted to "earn" the respect of us investors and try to run a game "business" as the worlds largest MMORPG IPO. Hell I am betting the fame they will have as the biggest legit non-scam IPO (i.e. getting interviewed a few times per year) is worth the effort to manage the isk. So far 7 months of dividends paid on schedule with no issues retuning 35% ROI with good forward projections from the managers.
So if it all blew up today and ISS was a scam I would be out about 4B isk. But it has been fun just reading and following all the stuff in the markets - that was worth much more than the isk to me.
Note: I do think the best way to make ISK in EVE is "private equity" where you invest with your friends to achieve a specific goal in a corp. I have made returns of 30%/month on specific ventures by myself that I have invested in short term. Long term the tech 2 BPOs that I have bought are returning right around 3 to 5% on invested ISK. So not much better than ISS, but I have no risk that I am going to scam myself.
Keep up the faith - diversify in IPOs and in yourself is the only way to have fun and survive in Eve.
Dreck Morrison
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Gully Smit
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Posted - 2007.07.02 16:29:00 -
[35]
Dreck - ty for the vote of confidence. I think I sold off AATP.
honestly after I lost interest in it I may of unloaded a few dogs before their time.
Somewhere someone has a simple solution that would make the situation less like playing craps with loaded dice.
I realize how much research is a factor....to change those odds.
In poker...if u are losing badly it's good to sit out and watch the cards for a bit. I have been at that stage for awhile.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.03 01:20:00 -
[36]
Quote:
I'd have an uncontrollable joygasm if I were given the opportunity to play in a big, full-on poker tournament (Of Doom!) with everyone from this forum. I know of some really, really good players who keep a presence here.
We should try to put something together for FanFest.
I'd show in a brown robe with a hood.... you wouldn't be able to read my tells then!
I'll be at Fanfest 2008 next year (can't make it this year).... maybe then....
Archie 
PIE WEBSITE
ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.03 01:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote:
I'd have an uncontrollable joygasm if I were given the opportunity to play in a big, full-on poker tournament (Of Doom!) with everyone from this forum. I know of some really, really good players who keep a presence here.
We should try to put something together for FanFest.
I'd show in a brown robe with a hood.... you wouldn't be able to read my tells then!
I'll be at Fanfest 2008 next year (can't make it this year).... maybe then....
Archie
Just to ensure the whole thread is pulled completely off-topic, I once played against a guy in a mascot-style chicken suit, including the head. I cleaned him out.
He clucked under his breath every time he got a good hand.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Cherybol
Caldari
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:16:00 -
[38]
The second someone yells scam about an IPO I'm invested in, and there claims look reasonably plausable, I sell of my shares.
Its worked for my thus far, although I took a hit with EMFI selling at the buyback rate of 5k. But I made plenty more off other IPO's by selling while there NAV was high.
I don't really live for the dividends, more of the speculation.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Pilk
He clucked under his breath every time he got a good hand.
I refuse to play online poker for such reasons. In poker you play the (wo)man more so than you play the cards.
Of course the cards often play you in turn but that's another philosophical matter entirely.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
Seifan
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Posted - 2007.07.03 17:36:00 -
[40]
There needs to be underwriters, that write the IPO and bring the company public. Without such a check and balance system there is nothing stopping a scam. Also, dont invest, in real life or otherwise, in something you have never heard of. Its no different than walking into a casino, sitting at a game you have never played nor know how to play and just throwing money on the table....
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.07.04 03:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Seifan
There needs to be underwriters, that write the IPO and bring the company public. Without such a check and balance system there is nothing stopping a scam.
There is no mechanism in game that allows for real background checks.
Plain and simple.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!! |
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