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Market Hub - Removal of the one system hub idea

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Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.01 22:59:00 - [1] Here is an idea that may solve the over crowlding in Jita Make a market hub - that is not a system but a series a stations in different regions that are connected together with worm holes using jump gate tech. Thughtout Empire space place 4 (or more) stations (one for each racial faction) These station will be an indepentant markets, that is anything put up for sell at any of these stations can be bought at any other of the stations. Make them an independant regoinal market, so that you will have to be docked at one of these station to interact with it. This solution will remove the one system being used as a market hub but spread it out to as many systems that have this type of station. In fact it can be taken out of any systems by simply making docking to this station take you to another zone. No space for the server its not to keep track of.
Mear Vanir	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:13:00 - [2] This would make life easier
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:27:00 - [3] I think it would make live alot more easier. Think about it, Seavral stations thur out empire that will act as one. There will not longer be a reason to stay around jita to build, cuz you can go near another one of these station and build just the same as by Jita. Players will start to fill out the other parts of empire with still access to the major hub. I do suggest one more thing with these stations, give them either alot of build slots, or no build slots at all. And give them either alot of offices or no offices at all. I think no slots at all will be more interesting. Make players ship their goods in.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:50:00 - [4] There is a big problem in your idea: If the market are linked (i.e. as you suggest it is possible to buy or sell in any of the 4 linked station) in reality every time you open market in one of the station, it i opened in all 4. So instead of 500 persons in a single system opnening market and lagging the syste, we will have 4 system where 250 persons in each system are opening marekt in 4 system, and lagging all 4. It will not be an improvement. An improvement (but I dubt it is possible), would be to put the market on a different shard than the Jita system, separating "looking the Jita market" from "running around, docking, undocking and fighting in the Jita system".
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Venkul Mul There is a big problem in your idea: If the market are linked (i.e. as you suggest it is possible to buy or sell in any of the 4 linked station) in reality every time you open market in one of the station, it i opened in all 4. So instead of 500 persons in a single system opnening market and lagging the syste, we will have 4 system where 250 persons in each system are opening marekt in 4 system, and lagging all 4. It will not be an improvement. An improvement (but I dubt it is possible), would be to put the market on a different shard than the Jita system, separating "looking the Jita market" from "running around, docking, undocking and fighting in the Jita system". My dear friend I believe you missed the part that docking with one of these stations would put you in another zone (a local sharded by these stations only). Thus docking with one of these station would put you into the wornhole network connecting the stations and into the Regional market these stations share. Howbeit this regional market will only be one buy/sell point that all stations will have access too. This would easily be put on its own node without effecting the local nodes that these stations may lie in. The node coving these station will not have space to keep track of and thus the major market hub will not be a local space that many will be passing thur, just to get stuck in. Its perfect! And yeah yeah, Some may responed that this will make eve smaller. I would disagree to that statement. Yeah goods will sell across empire easily but I have never said that you can dock at one station and undock at another (tho CCP can do as they see fit). I believe this will give players reason to be away from Jita, and spread them thurout empire. As far as 0.0 goeser, they bring their goods where it will sell (Jita), and this will give them more opitions on where to take thier goods. Again Perfect!
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.07.08 22:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Megalift Originally by: Venkul Mul There is a big problem in your idea: If the market are linked (i.e. as you suggest it is possible to buy or sell in any of the 4 linked station) in reality every time you open market in one of the station, it i opened in all 4. So instead of 500 persons in a single system opnening market and lagging the syste, we will have 4 system where 250 persons in each system are opening marekt in 4 system, and lagging all 4. It will not be an improvement. An improvement (but I dubt it is possible), would be to put the market on a different shard than the Jita system, separating "looking the Jita market" from "running around, docking, undocking and fighting in the Jita system". My dear friend I believe you missed the part that docking with one of these stations would put you in another zone (a local sharded by these stations only). Thus docking with one of these station would put you into the wornhole network connecting the stations and into the Regional market these stations share. Howbeit this regional market will only be one buy/sell point that all stations will have access too. This would easily be put on its own node without effecting the local nodes that these stations may lie in. The node coving these station will not have space to keep track of and thus the major market hub will not be a local space that many will be passing thur, just to get stuck in. Its perfect! And yeah yeah, Some may responed that this will make eve smaller. I would disagree to that statement. Yeah goods will sell across empire easily but I have never said that you can dock at one station and undock at another (tho CCP can do as they see fit). I believe this will give players reason to be away from Jita, and spread them thurout empire. As far as 0.0 goeser, they bring their goods where it will sell (Jita), and this will give them more opitions on where to take thier goods. Again Perfect! So instead of Jita being laggy in space and at the station, it will just be laggy in the station. Sounds like it solves nothing, how about they just put a limit on the number of people in Jita. When this limit is reached, nobody can enter the system.
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:09:00 - [7] Originally by: WhitePhantom So instead of Jita being laggy in space and at the station, it will just be laggy in the station. Sounds like it solves nothing, how about they just put a limit on the number of people in Jita. When this limit is reached, nobody can enter the system. With a node only keeping track of seavral stations only, there volume to handle this market will be vastly increase. There will be no gates with players jumping in and out to keep track of, there will be no rats, no belts with ore, no Moons with POSes, no players flying thur complaining about the lag (cuz you will only dock here to buy/sell - not go thur). All this node will have to keep track of is players docking, undocking, a vast simplex market (vast for the volume, simplex being only one sell point). Granted if the player numbers get into the 1000s then there may be lag, but you can alway just undock.
Mear Vanir	Posted - 2007.07.09 00:17:00 - [8] Would this make the lag only when docked? If that's the case...I don't understand how that wouldn't be better.
FlungPoo Master	Posted - 2007.07.09 01:15:00 - [9] Bad Idea... It would make the local/smaller builders unable to compete with the larger/t2 BPO holding builders. As it stands having a centralized market hub works well as the sell prices on many items gets higher the further from the hub (Jita). I would welcome not having to enter jita with all its lag, but having to compete directly with builders from across a different region would kill market prices. It is already hard for the small builder to keep up with the larger older builders doing this would give them a monopoly within empire.
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.09 01:44:00 - [10] Originally by: FlungPoo Master Bad Idea... It would make the local/smaller builders unable to compete with the larger/t2 BPO holding builders. As it stands having a centralized market hub works well as the sell prices on many items gets higher the further from the hub (Jita). I would welcome not having to enter jita with all its lag, but having to compete directly with builders from across a different region would kill market prices. It is already hard for the small builder to keep up with the larger older builders doing this would give them a monopoly within empire. This is ofc debateable. I beleve there will be more possiblities for all parties. The client base will be much larger and mods will sell like mad (anyone that has place a large number of mods in Jita at a reasonable price will agree - **** sells). these station should be on their own market grid (regional market) so to see its market you will have to dock, other regions will be the way they are. If these station dont have production slots then the large producters will have a harder time cuz they will have to ship their productions in (thick of ship builders). So the smaller builders will have an advantage there. Fact is a change like this would greatly effect the game, for everyone, even 0.0 players. Older players that remember the Yulia days will know what I mean. Jita will get worst, not better - more and more players are cominig into the game. And Jita is going to get more and more over crowled. The above is one solution that I believe will work.

Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.07.09 01:46:00 - [11] CCP seems to prefer a NPC delivery service that delivers within the constellation or region. This turns the constellation or region into one big market hub, spreading the load over more nodes. Coupled with asteroid/agent removal and changing routes by removing and adding jumpgates they hope to control the population in such a way that they can proudly keep claiming being the worlds biggest unsharded MMO. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.09 02:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Washell Olivaw CCP seems to prefer a NPC delivery service that delivers within the constellation or region. This turns the constellation or region into one big market hub, spreading the load over more nodes. Coupled with asteroid/agent removal and changing routes by removing and adding jumpgates they hope to control the population in such a way that they can proudly keep claiming being the worlds biggest unsharded MMO. Yes, I have read of this plan that CCP intents to do. Its a great idea and will be very useful to fly into a region and just buy what ever you want. What this will do is make one region a market hub, sure CCP will then make ores and other things scares in that regoin in hopes to move the payers out, but big producers will not move out when they can ship in. Thus one region will end out getting over crowded (probary where jita is, cuz that will where most of them are now). Placing a few stations thurout empire that are networked together thur wormholes would be a more long effective solutions.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.07.09 03:57:00 - [13] Other angle then. CCP's idea: programming takes place at game level. Bugs in delivery system annoying, not service threatening. Fairly short development period. Your idea: part of the programming takes place at node/server cluster level since atm the smallest thing that can be assigned to a node is a system. Bugs can bring down nodes and perhaps even the whole server. Takes intensive testing period to make sure it's safe for release. Development time much longer then CCP's idea. People want to see market hubs fixed now, not a year from now. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Thiefghost Tainted Assembly and Research Factory	Posted - 2007.07.09 10:05:00 - [14] give jita a own cluster :) /T
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.09 22:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Thiefghost give jita a own cluster :) /T Jita is already on its own Node and had been for some time. Unless Devs can figure out how to spead a system out thur a multi node setup, that is all it will get.
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.09 22:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Other angle then. CCP's idea: programming takes place at game level. Bugs in delivery system annoying, not service threatening. Fairly short development period. Your idea: part of the programming takes place at node/server cluster level since atm the smallest thing that can be assigned to a node is a system. Bugs can bring down nodes and perhaps even the whole server. Takes intensive testing period to make sure it's safe for release. Development time much longer then CCP's idea. People want to see market hubs fixed now, not a year from now. Yes, testing would be needed, but the time of depolyment would depend highly on the effort that is place on it. Given no new game mechines are introduced in this idea, all that will need to be done is program the stations and setup a node to handle them. A years time seems abit long if CCP would to truly want to solve the problem.
DorXtar Asa Dynasty	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:52:00 - [17] Edited by: DorXtar on 10/07/2007 17:51:48 I'd like to know what kind of hardware EvE uses, because the way the game is handled with hardware seems a bit inefficient. A "node" is the maximum amount of horsepower EvE can dedicate to a solar system, from what I understand. It seems EvE is using a grid setup. But isn't the purpose of grid computing to be able to allocate resources where they are needed most? I wonder if the developers are familiar with project darkstar? It never hurts to help!
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:34:00 - [18] this topic is not what i thought it was. I don't think this is a good idea, part of the design of eve is to travel to get what you want from another system. Jita is a market hub because of it's location. I was thinking that this was a idea i had which would be to take jita and several system around it and make that one market, so you still had to travel to jita area to buy and sell there but instead of 1000 people in one system there would be 1000 people in 5 system using a single stations market. Have a virtual station that is accessible from a dozen stations called a super station. Any market activity in that station is operates on the super station market. when looking at the region the jita super market is listed once. i think this would reduce lag and make jita a better place to be. Just say that the economy has grown so much that the stations and surrounding system have formed a trade cartel and merged there markets. - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:51:00 - [19] I like this, but the hubs would need to be in their own isolated regions and take at least 2-3 jumps of empty space to get to the regular regions. This is to discourage an increase of walmartism where people buy tons of stuff from the hub and resell for a tiny bit more in the normal region. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Sarf Jita is a market hub because of it's location. As was Yulai was before the 'Cold War' patch. Before that patch there were seavral gates that interconnected Empire space more. And Yulai was the center of Empire, thus everyone sold there. In that patch they removed those gates and made it harder to get around in Empire, thus Yulai fell as the great market hub it was. Originally by: Sarf I was thinking that this was a idea i had which would be to take jita and several system around it and make that one market, so you still had to travel to jita area to buy and sell there but instead of 1000 people in one system there would be 1000 people in 5 system using a single stations market. Have a virtual station that is accessible from a dozen stations called a super station. Any market activity in that station is operates on the super station market. when looking at the region the jita super market is listed once. i think this would reduce lag and make jita a better place to be. Just say that the economy has grown so much that the stations and surrounding system have formed a trade cartel and merged there markets. Interesting idea. In effect that is what CCP is working on, but it will be for all regions and will cost you isk to have something delievered to you from another station. The addition of seavral wornhole networked station thurout Empire, in my opition, will do what CCP setout to do in the 'Cold War' patch. And that was to spared out the players in Empire. There will be seavral places ppl can go to, to access the big market hub. No need to stay around Jita, and no need to stay around the region that will take over as the market hub.

Katana Seiko Made in Germany	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:58:00 - [21] Well, those four stations will need no Marketing, Science, Offices or whatsoever... Just the Market... Sounds really good! Just one problem remains: You need to keep track from what part of space you docked... -- The future begins now - in EVE we live it, in real life we create it! Your sig is too big. Please keep it under 400x120 and less than 24000 bytes. -the sexiest moderator ([email protected]
Megalift Azure Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Katana Seiko Well, those four stations will need no Marketing, Science, Offices or whatsoever... Just the Market... Sounds really good! Just one problem remains: You need to keep track from what part of space you docked... Yes that would be the intention of these station. Only market, and maybe contracts. No Offices, no slots of any kind, no medical, no repair, no reprocessing, no fitting, nothing that will take away from the servers load to handle the market and the players. As far as keeping track of the station your docked in, that should be much of a problem to program.


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