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Lazyness versus Hardeners.

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FrostedJin Caldari Dark Skullz Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:13:00 - [1] Hi gang, I've only been playing about a month and I see alot of talk about using specific hardeners in your setup. I can see the advantages, but the lazy part of me doesn't really feel that its worth it to be refitting your ship for every mission you do. I know that they're effective, but are the absolutely necessary? I've been running some level 2's now with a mostly passive setup in my Caracal and feel like I'm doing alright, even with my weak skills. My setup: 5x Heavies Med T2 Booster, 2x Med Shield Extenders, Shield Recharger, AB PDU, BCU The TLDR: Does every lv 4 runner use specific hardeners? Is it "required" to survive tough spots? Is my fitting decent? Many thanks in advance. _______________ Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.
Squize Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:16:00 - [2] As long as you only make the lower lvl missions, in a somewhat bigger ship its not really needed. But whenever you get to do lvl4/5 (and some lvl3) mission, you really want to tank against the damage dealt to you.
Mastin Dragonfly Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:17:00 - [3] In lvl 3s and up you most definately want to fit accordingly. Some ships can get away with an omni fit though, especially tech 2 ships which get a huge boost to two resists out of the box. Most npcs have two main damage types, like EM and Thermal for Sansha, you will want those two resists over 80% as a rule of thumb. Keep in mind that when you have 90% resist you get HALF the damage of when you have 80% resist, getting those resists up does pay off.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:21:00 - [4] If u don't tank specific damage u will soon find ur shield/armor is melting away on certain missions. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:28:00 - [5] If you like to own a good allround tank tanking all the damage in L3/4 without refitting, you will need a lot of ISK
FrostedJin Caldari Dark Skullz Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:29:00 - [6] Thanks for the quick reply guys, guess I'll have to be more proactive in my fitting soon. What about invuln fields? as useful as hardeners? _______________ Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:38:00 - [7] Originally by: FrostedJin Thanks for the quick reply guys, guess I'll have to be more proactive in my fitting soon. What about invuln fields? as useful as hardeners? Yes and no they use more cap and have higher fitting requirements, I have 2 Dread guristas Invul fields (with 2 other spacific hardeners) fitted on my mission CNR and I only ever have to change the ammo type now. Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:40:00 - [8] Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2007 11:42:22 First, you won't be running L4s in a Caracal. Even if you could survive them, there's no way you could solo-kill a few of the ships that show up. A low-skill Drake has problems breaking some of the tanks there, let alone a Caracal, regardless of skills. Well, in all fairness, a Caracal MIGHT be able to kill everything eventually, if it uses either T2 high-damage version or faction versions of heavy missiles and the pilot is insanely skilled... but meh, just not worth it. As for the hardners, well, it all boils down to "tankable DPS". It doesn't matter how you are able to tank that DPS, be it sheer/huge recharge/repair, high resistances and a high buffer or even just small sig+speed... it only maters that you do tank whatever DPS it's coming in. Also, note that while "tankable DPS" might seem simple at first glance, in "normal" cases your output DPS matters a lot when calculating the "needed tankable DPS" simply because if you can eliminate enough damage sources fast enough, you don't need to tank all that godly. To give you an idea of the "tank magnitude" needed... most L4 missions hover around 400-700 incoming DPS, with some of them (full "aggro gone bad") up to 3000 DPS or even more (Bockade and Enemies Abound 5/5). So, there's no simple answer for all situations, and the "optimal" mix between hardners and regen/repair do differ from mission to mission, therefore in some cases, yes, (some) invul fields being the better overall choice. Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:42:00 - [9] I often use a drake with a PVP passive tank. Replace the passive hardeners with actives though. That gives me a nice balance in all 4 colors. If I use a BS for lvl 4 missions instead of the drake, I go with either a Domi or Hyperion with the fully standard PVP setup but changing the mid slots over to cap rechargers. With the drake, it really helps to have a second ship to use shield transfers. For the BS, want a second ship for cap transfer. The most important thing is that the ship you use has the skills needed to get the most effectiveness out of it. Compensation skills at lvl 5 does make for a slightly bit better tank than having them at lvl 4. It can be done, but as I stated, you really do want a second ship there to give you a bit of logistical support. Having an alt can really pay off. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
FrostedJin Caldari Dark Skullz Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2007 11:46:54 First, you won't be running L4s in a Caracal. Even if you could survive them, there's no way you could solo-kill a few of the ships that show up. A low-skill Drake has problems breaking some of the tanks there, let alone a Caracal, regardless of skills. Well, in all fairness, a Caracal MIGHT be able to kill everything eventually, if it uses either T2 high-damage version or faction versions of heavy missiles and the pilot is insanely skilled... but meh, just not worth it. hehe, I never claimed to want to do Lv4's in a Caracal, only asking what I should expect when I finally get up to doing Level 4's. As for now, the damage taken in 1's and 2's isn't very severe at all, so I wondered where the concern about tanking was coming from. Very helpful post though, thanks for the input. I've got a long way to go I see. _______________ Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 11:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2007 11:53:06 L4s, I use either a half-passive Drake (3 active hardners, 150-ish peak shield recharge) or a full-passive Dominix (one hardner max, usually none and an drone omni link instead, but with 450-ish peak shield recharge). Used to run a couple L4s in a Ferox before Rev 1.0, but it was, how to put it, excruciatingly slow. The Drake is "much safer" (tanks a whole lot more DPS) but the Dominix has almost double the output DPS, so completes the mission faster and overall "safe enough" if I don't screw up on aggro control. Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:09:00 - [12] Most people will have to learn the use of hardeners when they start on lv3 missions - Lv 1 and 2 hardly count as missions anymore with people having cool skills from start... You will take a lot of damage in most lv4 and many lv3 missions, so if you don't have lots and lots of HP compared, you need hardeners to complete them... btw. Shouldn't you be able to fit 1 or 2 large shield extenders on your caracal in that setup? If not I think it's doable by training a few skills - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
FrostedJin Caldari Dark Skullz Empire	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:27:00 - [13] Thanks again so much for the input guys, when the server comes back up I'll see what I can squeeze in. _______________ Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.

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