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metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
   |
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, I am writing in the forums to get a loan to start a small EVE based business. Essentially my idea is to start a web cam business where people can watch me me play Eve 24/7. I need the loan to set up web hosting and use the isk to buy plex while I use my allowance to buy web cams. My computer is in my bedroom so pretty much when I am not playing people can also watch me sleep (I don't mind).
I think this will be an awesome venture because I play Eve all the time and like to PVP and mine so people will be able to see how you actually play the game and might learn somethings. I don't know exactly how big the market will be for this sort of thing but there is always an influx of new players. Also I would like to point out the large following on Youtube of EVE related videos.
I have friends who work for a web hosting company do programming and have offered to help me out. I have spoke to them and they feel that the best way to go about this sort of venture if to have people deposit ISK into an account and use scripts to monitor deposits and usage. We haven't really decided on what a good going rate on this would be but we are thinking 50 million for an hour. Not every one is probably going to watch me play all the time and they want to come back later so this way here they can save time. Also we were thinking that there might be ways we can offer people special deals if they buy bulk amounts of time.
My cost break down is as follows.
I have estimates for web cam hosting ranging from 1 billion to 10 billion a month depending on the amount of web traffic used and also if I allow ads on the site. Other factors include how many cameras I have set up.
I estimate a basic web camera wil run at least 1 plex or about 460 million.
I have a friend who is going to work on some programming to have people set up account and track account balances. He estimates that this should take about 10 hours worth of work as he will use some existing code. He wants 3 billion isk for this. He also wants 1 plex a month for site maintenance.
In all I am looking for 25 billion to cover start up costs and potential over runs over the course of the first two months.
Profit
Eve has about 25,000 people on all the time except when there is downtime. There are usually at least 1,000 people in Jita at all times. We figure if we do some advertising in Jita during peak time like what some of the big lotteries do that we can get at least 10 people a day (possibly more on the weekend) to suscribe or take a look. From experience my one friend says that inthese types of rooms there are usually about 10-25 guys on at all times. We think a fair goal is to have 50 regular suscribers and about 10 hardcore viewers. With 10 viewers this will generate 500 mil an hour or 12 billion a day minimum. I am also thinking that we can offer special promotions where my sister will come in and use my computer when I am not there. I can let viewers know via web site and they may want to suscribe just to watch her.
The ISK loan will be paid back at 100% rate as soon as I make the first 50 billion. Depending on the success of this venturethis coul potentially be in days.
I don't think my numbers are all that far off and I am open to suggestions. Basically I like playing EVE and want to share my expriences with other and make ISK while doing it. Thank you.
If people decide to invest I ask that you please post in this thread so that It is easy to keep track of who sent what. Once isk is received I will confirm it. Thank you. And please feel free to convo me in game. |
Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
How are you funding a web cam host with ISK? How are you going to receive revenue in ISK? What is the name of web cam host you plan to use?
Most importantly: How will advertising generate you ISK?
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Servicing highsec and lowsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
My friend works for the hosting company and has said he will take ISK in exchange for the web hosting. The advertising on the site wouldn't generate ISK revenue but would generate RL money ( I am not keen on this).
Revenue stream would be from EVE players who want to watch. They would deposit ISK in an account. They would then be charge to watch on a per minute basis.
I am not really comfortable providing the business my friend works at just because of privacy reasons on his part. |
Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
So it's a paid stream?
Err.
edit: Good luck, if you can pull any of this off that'd be interesting. However, you should attempt to generate real life revenue and then refold it back into GTCs or PLEX. May be more profitable, and not as demanding on the customers. I imagine there are very few people who will pay to watch somebody else play Eve when they already pay to play the game themselves.
Double edit: I sense a bit of sarcasm in the OP, so if you want to take this seriously at all, cool. If not, whatevs.
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Servicing highsec and lowsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX |
Brock Nelson
241
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Would you offer private sessions? |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, people are paying ISK to watch me play EVE.
I have to remember to quote.... |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
62
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Don't be dirty. |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
I thought about that because I figured that some people might want to be walked through on how I fit ships or mine or whatever. I don't really know because I don't really have a good idea on what the demand on this sort of thing will be. The problem by doing that is that others will have potentially already paid and I don't think it would be fair or good customer service to not be available for them to watch. |
Brock Nelson
241
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 22:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ha |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 23:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
ISK sent |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hi, you didn't actually send any ISK so please don't say you did. I would kindly ask CCP MOD to verify this. Thank you. |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hi Everyone,
I have had some responses and I want to say no I am not pimping my sister she is 14 for crying out loud. She just uses my computer to do homework and play games. Please keep it clean. Thanks. |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:Hi, you didn't actually send any ISK so please don't say you did. I would kindly ask CCP MOD to verify this. Thank you.
This man just stole my ISK. I would kindly ask CCP MOD to verify this. Thank you.
|
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Please just ignore him. Obvious troll is trolling. |
cigarellos
Trade Federation Directorate
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reported. |
Darth Tickles
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
cigarellos wrote:Reported.
This man just stole my ISK. I would kindly ask CCP MOD to verify this. Thank you.
|
Keen Fallsword
Billionaires Club
C0VEN
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cool IDEA ! ISK Sent ! |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 00:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Confirming Keen Fallsword sent ISK. Thank you. |
Xylem Viliana
Dust Bunnies
Emergent Avionics
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 02:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok this seems wierd to me.
For an eve player this would be like visiting a strip club with a pre payed prostitute at home with the meeter running.
I can only assume that current players are not your target audience but non eve adicts who may just get a trial and be done with it.
I cannot see this as ever turning a profit |
Brock Nelson
244
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 03:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pics? |
Syrk
Project Cerberus
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 04:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
C'mon guys |
Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 06:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
It really is, I was just maintaining my professional opinion in the first couple posts.
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Servicing highsec and lowsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 17:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wanted to take the opportunity to ask people to please stop trolling me. This is a legitimate venture. If you look on the internet there are web cam businesses where people can watch people do all sorts of things, just in this particular instance it is watch me play EVE.
I really don't know who will watch this but my initial target audience will be newer players because I like to help them. Who knows ultimately who will end up being the main subscriber base. I do feel strongly that this is ISK maker I just don't have the funds to carry it out on my own. |
XrayZII
AVE EVE
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 17:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
i was just about to write something very horrible here, but ill keep it to myself.
not trollin' u, just telling u that its not anything ppl would actually pay for (if they aint some wierd folks).
the ppl that would pay would be the ones in the "wierd fapping fetiches" category.
If ur eager to make something to help out the new player base. Make videos and upload them to youtube.
toodles, X. |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 18:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
The problem with Youtube is that everyone does it and I really don't see how someone is going to make ISK that way. I think that there are different types of people who learn in different ways, some by reading, some by doing and some by watching.
In the end if if the main customer base tends to be a lonely guys that wants to watch a a young guy play EVE so be it. I'm not trying to be the next Xtube or be judgmental, just trying to make some ISK. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
173
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Must...not...troll...sister. Gah.
OK, no one is gonna pay you 50M ISK to watch you play EVE. Not even lonely guys. Find a better scam.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 20:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
I thought 50 mil would be a good price if people were just going to use the service once. If people are going to be regular customers then maybe the price would be lower. I don't know if anyone has any experience with chat rooms where you can watch people but how many people are typically in these rooms and also how much do they charge money-wise? This venture isn't set in stone and I am also looking for feedback as well. Thank you. |
Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 22:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
If you were a teenage girl with a lot of eyeliner, some cleavage showing AND you played World of Warcraft or League of Legends or some other MMO full to the brim of teenagers who don't have enough melanin in their skin then I could see this making you loads of money. After all, the least common denominator sells.
But none of the above apply, so you may want to try something else UNLESS you opt to not charge a subscription for people to watch you. Make your money off ads, not subscriptions.
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Servicing highsec and lowsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX |
Gatan Hahran
Brukterer
DUCT TAPE UNION
73
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 00:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
1) Look for 2 NPC stations in hisec that have a distance of about 3,8 million km to each other.
2) Fit a ship in a way that it will fly 500 m/s
3) Build a small capsule in your house, that has multiple webcams in it, food supply for 90 days, bags to **** into, and other stuff.
4) Announce that you will fly from station to station in 3 months without using the warp drive and not leaving your capsule.
5) Do it and i cant point out how important it is that you do not shave yourself during the whole 3 months, so we can see some kind of progress when tuning in
6) ????
7) profit |
Brock Nelson
245
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 01:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gatan Hahran wrote:1) Look for 2 NPC stations in hisec that have a distance of about 3,8 million km to each other.
2) Fit a ship in a way that it will fly 500 m/s
3) Build a small capsule in your house, that has multiple webcams in it, food supply for 90 days, bags to **** into, and other stuff.
4) Announce that you will fly from station to station in 3 months without using the warp drive and not leaving your capsule.
5) Do it and i cant point out how important it is that you do not shave yourself during the whole 3 months, so we can see some kind of progress when tuning in
6) ????
7) profit
I would do that |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Vengeance Industrial Militia
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 02:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
I assume that you will also use Screen-Capturing software to record your gameplay and use Livestream to show your EVE gameplay?
My thread in the EVE Fiction forums has dissapeared. Somebody pease help! |
Zag'mar Jurkar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 02:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why not just set up a Justin.tv channel and ask for ISK donations while making money from ads at the same time ? |
Lester Taron
Nazgul Lord Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 04:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
or twitchtv ^^^ |
Chiggy Luck
Hard-Luck Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 16:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
My troll detector is off the scale, but here goes.
The most obvious hole in you're plan is that you want to charge 50 Mil an hour. That doesn't sound like something most established players would be willing to pay, let alone someone who is new to game making a couple of mil an hour at best. I don't think you've really thought about you're target demographic, let alone what they would be willing/able to pay for such a service.
Maybe if you charged a couple of mil a day/week you might get some new players sign up, but in it's current state I would rather invest in Goonswarms recruiting scam than this. |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
124
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 21:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think the only way to make this profitable is to have your sister play, sorry. Otherwise, well, I might as well watch myself play the game. Like was said, 50M/hour is awful pricey. |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 00:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
I went with 50 mil because I didn't know. Does anyone know how much a cam show costs an hour or session? I don't think I would mind lowering the price if it means more business. My sister mainly plays Facebook games. I had showed her Eve before but she is a girl and I think it was too much math for her. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
189
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 01:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cam show by girls with no clothes on = $$$$$. Cam show with basement dude playing internet spaceships = -ó if you're lucky.
1M isk per hour maybe?  That might be pushing it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Blecktalk Morwoop
Ordo Ouroboros
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 04:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
You can stream off of twitch.tv for free. |
Arbryl
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 17:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
How often will you be playing on the toilet? This could affect my interest in this service. |
Jehek Azen
Cult of the Spinning Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 17:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Can you provide "premium" stream with see-through cameras?
How much clothing will you be wearing while streaming?
Will you be streaming from bathroom or shower?
These will be they key questions if you want to "convince" me into investing or watching the stream. If you are planning on "premium" stream, I will definitely be "in", if you know what I mean.
|
Lacco
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 18:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx would like to recruit you. |
wowjemdsd
Viziam
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 18:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
hello to all the follwing is a hat that i had with metalravenous he is 100 % a scammer do not turest him
Channel ID: -27564497
Channel Name: Private Chat (Private Chat)
Listener: wowjemdsd
Session started: 2012.01.11 18:44:59
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:01 ] wowjemdsd > hi
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:02 ] wowjemdsd > https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55008&find=unread
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:03 ] wowjemdsd > hell
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:04 ] metalravenous > yo
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:08 ] wowjemdsd > hello how are you
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:12 ] metalravenous > im good
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:14 ] metalravenous > how are you
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:18 ] wowjemdsd > i was lookign at your offer
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:29 ] wowjemdsd > Looking for ISK loan to start business
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:36 ] wowjemdsd > you are is that right?
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:41 ] metalravenous > i have had some isk invested but no where near what i need
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:45:51 ] wowjemdsd > ok
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:01 ] wowjemdsd > please show me some proof
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:03 ] wowjemdsd > plase
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:17 ] metalravenous > im not sure what you mean
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:32 ] wowjemdsd > can you please show me some prove
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:40 ] metalravenous > proof of what?
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:46:54 ] wowjemdsd > that you ahev a steam
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:10 ] wowjemdsd > stream
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:14 ] wowjemdsd > please link em to it
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:14 ] metalravenous > I dont
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:19 ] wowjemdsd > what
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:20 ] metalravenous > that is the point of the loan
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:46 ] wowjemdsd > you sad
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:47 ] wowjemdsd > Yes, people are paying ISK to watch me play EVE.
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:50 ] wowjemdsd > so now
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:53 ] wowjemdsd > my wuestion si
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:55 ] metalravenous > oh
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:47:56 ] wowjemdsd > is
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:48:05 ] wowjemdsd > were are people watching you play eve
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:48:06 ] wowjemdsd > link
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:48:08 ] wowjemdsd > please
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:48:16 ] metalravenous > they arent because i havent started it up yet
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:49:16 ] wowjemdsd > so why are you saying that than when it is NOT ture
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:49:43 ] metalravenous > sorry i dont understand what you mean
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:49:49 ] metalravenous > i need loan to start business
n++[ 2012.01.11 18:50:10 ] wowjemdsd > this man is a scammer do not turest him
|
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 18:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
If anyone can decipher that that guy was saying I would appreciate it.
I have no business yet that is why I need the loan.
I am not sure like I am just a college guy so I don't know that my parents would approve of me doing some of the things people have eve mailed me about. And I would like to mention again that my sister is just 14 so please stop with the perv requests. My mom does sometimes use the computer to send mails to my grandmother. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 19:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:If anyone can decipher that that guy was saying I would appreciate it.
I have no business yet that is why I need the loan.
I am not sure like I am just a college guy so I don't know that my parents would approve of me doing some of the things people have eve mailed me about. And I would like to mention again that my sister is just 14 so please stop with the perv requests. My mom does sometimes use the computer to send mails to my grandmother.
Does your mom sometimes use evemails to do it? 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
124
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 20:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Protip: never mention little sister on online forums. |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers
Eternal Syndicate
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 00:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
I dont get it
Why would anyone want to see you play EVE realtime???
Theres like 1000000 movies on youtube with exactly the topic u need...
What u kill avatars with rifters? Or what exactly would make ppl payperview your sessions 
I. |
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 00:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Why do people go to theaters to see live shows versus going to blockbuster video? Not the same experience. |
De Guillaume
Seven Minutes To Midnight.
The Volition Cult
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 01:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
I do not know if this has been done before but why not host a race. Create a route, make it public. empire and low sec, no 00. get say 20 people in the race, put a first prize to the winner of the race and a prize to anyone else who manages to kill the most racers.
if u can understand my bad english. and some how live stream the event, I think some people might pay to watch this
or even bet on the race outcome.
i would invest in something like that. with a person i trust, which isn't u unless u have collateral |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 01:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:Why do people go to theaters to see live shows versus going to blockbuster video? Not the same experience.
You are mixing media, but am I to assume from that that you think watching you play a spaceship game on a computer through a webcam would be an experience worth sitting down for on its own merits?
Just want to point out that if you type "cam show" in Google, the first non-**** listing I got was http://alongabbay.com/cam-shows where some dude in much better shape than you are will flex for you over the camera for free.
Not that I don't applaud your can-do spirit and your desire to make ISK doing essentially nothing, but . Why would you think there was a demand for this?
Say (and let's be really f'ing generous here) that 5% of the entire EVE population logged in at any given point of time would actually even want to see you. Let's also assume that active numbers have gone up 10% since Crucible (I'm pulling numbers from Jester then applying the 10% out of my ass, but you get the point). Remove average alt accounts, and you get somewhere in the realm of 738 people willing to watch you throughout the entire day, throughout all of EVE. Or 32 dudes an hour. Say half of them have the ISK to spend on this (again, generous the way I hear people complain about not being space rich); that makes 16.
Also let's assume that somehow you have marketed your service to ALL of Eve (instead of just Jita which is what you originally said), covering 100% of your potential clients. Then let's apply an insanely generous response rate and say 15% of all the dudes who are interested respond to your offer. You are left with 2 dudes who a. want to watch you, b. are aware you exist, c. can and actually will drop money to see you sit in front of a screen.
You said that you think hosting will cost 1-10B a month in costs, plus 3.5B or so in startup costs for a camera, hosting, setup, what have you. Your fixed monthly expenses are tagged at 1 plex, or say 450M plus hosting. This doesn't include advertising. So let's say that you turned out to be on the lower side and it only costs you 2B/month in hosting.
All in all considering your initial costs (you asked for 25B but let's say you only really need 10B for the first 2 months) would require constant payments from your customers of appx. 3.7M/hour each, just to recoup your costs. Not even to make a single ISK worth of profit. This is non-stop, no downtime, no maintenance, assuming you actually had those returns on your advertising. If you really needed 25B for those first 2 months, each subscriber would have to pay 9M/hour in costs alone.
Are you getting the picture here? The math gets more ridiculous the more I look at it.
In summary: Either you are attempting a Prencleeve Grothsmore-like bad scam to get 25 billion ISK, and relying on everyone taking your ridiculous numbers at face value, or you simply have no clue. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here (again, generous) and say that you probably think running a business is all cake and easy money 'cause you're in uni and you just don't know any better, but perhaps you should spend some time crunching some numbers first.
Hey, I'll subscribe to you if you subscribe to me! I charge 50M/hour to watch me pour over market spreadsheets.
Also, 2 ISK sent so you can claim loudly that you scammed and trolled me, and then just give it all up.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard
EntroPraetorian Aegis
364
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 10:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Encasing Mineral Cannon
This wonderful weapon can only be equipped on mining mining barges and haulers would allow the pilot to spray minerals they have in their cargo hold onto the enemy ship and eventually encase it in an asteroid . The only way to be free of such a tomb would be if a friend was to mine you out of it. Self-destruct would also be disabled. 
|
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc.
Not Found.
59
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 12:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Goatse was the word that came to mind. |
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