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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Salia Deluri
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Posted - 2007.07.05 23:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: ragewind
Originally by: CCP Chronotis This was known soon after we patched, I screwed up with these as the stacking penalty is not enough and as pointed out, ships with lots of low/hi slots and cpu (aka the rokh) can stack the bonus to the point where it beats the hulk with only 2 low slots though this is with the best metas which are really rare in distribution so very much a hypothetical exercise at this point however it does need fixing and shall be.
you a DEV and you just said you broke something, realized this has happened and are going to fix it. all this on the first page of a thread. you have broken the ccp customer communications policy run when the rest of the devs come in to the office with the nerf bat.
to the rest of the devs please take note, praise this dev for his fine work. im a very happy eve player for your post passage of information is what the players need to see your rock and i don't even wantto mine ina rohk that fast for the sake of my fingers lol
OMG
whoa
<-- sits down
Ditto to above. Other Devs take note and don't beat this dev with the stupid stick. Step up to the level of service presented here.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.06 00:36:00 -
[32]
epic thread for the right reasons
kudos on spotting the mistake and getting on it Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.06 01:36:00 -
[33]
Applying some off the top of the head numbers for stack nerfs I get:
The Hulk mines 5.89k to the Rokh's 4k
Thanks for the quick response awesome devs!
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Nimitz Alexander
Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.06 05:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: William Hamilton Applying some off the top of the head numbers for stack nerfs I get:
The Hulk mines 5.89k to the Rokh's 4k
Thanks for the quick response awesome devs!
I dunno i think 5 million sp + the trade off in tankability/insuarbility should be worth a bit more ther 45%
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Tipz NexAstrum
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.07.06 05:45:00 -
[35]
Well damn, if some guy in Razor found five of the top mods already I guess I know where I'm going to ninja rat for awhile
Bring on the Nerftastic Four, my Hulk took long enough to train and I can't be bothered to learn how to fly a Rohk on top of it. -------------------------------------------
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Lougra
Gallente United Forces
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Posted - 2007.07.06 07:55:00 -
[36]
Ahh no bug at all. You just forgot to upgrade hulks
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Jurgen Cartis
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Posted - 2007.07.06 08:21:00 -
[37]
Yes, applying the normal stacking nerf formula for these will fix this imbalance nicely, even if it will annoy hulk pilots fitting 2 laser upgrades and losing a small part of their mining ability.
While it will slightly screw over the battleship miners out there, I've always hated that battleships can outmine a Retriever, even a T2 fitted, max skilled one. Even with MLU's stacking nerfed, battleships will still outmine Retrievers, but they'll be closer in terms of ability, at least. . . and the damn BS are still easier to get into, tank better and have dronebay enough to keep mining and combat drones on hand. Handle better and move faster too, for that matter. . .
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.06 09:36:00 -
[38]
simple nerf, that stops this been nuts, if more than 2 units are used stacking penalties kick in, if 2 are used then no stacking penalty mining barges/exhumers fall in fine and mining bs's get the appropriate kick in the teeth. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.06 12:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Mr Krosis on 06/07/2007 12:59:18 I don't think a battleship should outmine even a covetor.
Why were these even introduced into the game?
Weren't we supposed to get an ORE capital ship?
Was this ment to be some quick fix to hold the serious miners over since said ORE capital ship missed the rev2 launch? How about maybe changing the hulk's "extra" listed resist bonus, that the other 2 exhumers get free without it using one of their ship bonuses, to +20% Mining Upgrade Effectiveness per skill level or something. Then you give something (free even!) to the serious miners, who are all probably flying hulks now anyway with their price drop, without giving battleships the ability to outmine them.
Mining upgrades were previously not stacking nerfed. I seriously hope the "fix" to the extremely rare/expensive upgrades we didn't need in the first place isn't to nerf every other mining setup in the game.
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.07.06 13:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Verite Rendition Making these things stacking nerfed would quickly solve the problem. The effect on Hulk pilots would be virtually nil, but mods 3 through 5 on the Rokh would start becoming very insignificant.
LMFAO! Stacking nerf a mining mod. Lets make mining ust as tedious as it used to be.How about just nerfing the ships NOT MEANT FOR MINING!!!
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Tramp Oline
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Posted - 2007.07.06 13:38:00 -
[41]
Don't change the stacking penalty. Give Hulks more low slots!
Originally by: CCP Chronotis This was known soon after we patched, I screwed up with these as the stacking penalty is not enough and as pointed out, ships with lots of low/hi slots and cpu (aka the rokh) can stack the bonus to the point where it beats the hulk with only 2 low slots though this is with the best metas which are really rare in distribution so very much a hypothetical exercise at this point however it does need fixing and shall be.
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Kara Rhane
Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 13:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tramp Oline Don't change the stacking penalty. Give Hulks more low slots!
Originally by: CCP Chronotis This was known soon after we patched, I screwed up with these as the stacking penalty is not enough and as pointed out, ships with lots of low/hi slots and cpu (aka the rokh) can stack the bonus to the point where it beats the hulk with only 2 low slots though this is with the best metas which are really rare in distribution so very much a hypothetical exercise at this point however it does need fixing and shall be.
Or...
Give the Hulk a 4th high slot for 4 mining lasers. 4 x 150% = 6x worth of lasers on a single ship. X2 better then the covetor at mining. The two low slots with +20% mining mods in them would only make it better. Getting to a hulk is a massive undertaking, but shouldn't the thing be worth it? I mean come on, even with invention a covetor costs around 25 mill, a hulk is down to about 150 mill. So for 6x the cost we get 1.5x better of a ship. (Not to mention when a hulk was 500 mill each so 20x more expensive for 1.5x mining capacity....) I know the ore capital ship is coming, alot of ppl are preparing for it. But can we have a hulk that is a tiny bit better then just the 150% now?
I think 4x mining laser high slots would do that, but then again this is wishful thinking for a carebear :)
***** Rhane's Research and Development Labs
Click our link today to search our Ammo/Missile BPO 'sets' |
Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.07.06 14:00:00 -
[43]
cudos to the dev for his reply -- Tempus fugit -- |
Helen Sobell
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Posted - 2007.07.06 17:10:00 -
[44]
(a) the upgrades dont seem tobe working at the moment, shouldnt we be getting them to fix that before we discuss nerfing
(b) just change the cpu requirements so that they take huge amounts of cpu but only 10% of that if fitted to a hulk, covetor etc a bit like the covert ops cloaking device on the covert ops ships
my ten penneth
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.07.06 18:15:00 -
[45]
just curious, can a rokh with zero tank tank zerozero rats?
my hulk tanks and mines ____________________________________________
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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Jamier Legov
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Posted - 2007.07.06 18:24:00 -
[46]
After looking at the specs, it seems a little strange that the CPU penalty decreases as the mining bonus increases (6% CPU penalty at 25% bonus, 10% PCU penalty at 10% bonus). You would think it would be the other way around. But maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
What if the CPU penalty increased as the mining bonus increased? Would that prevent the BS from using 8 mining lasers but still allow the hulk to use 3 strip miners with the best 25% upgrade?
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Halkin
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 18:42:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Halkin on 06/07/2007 18:41:45
Originally by: Lireil Crow a rohk will out ming a halk.
no wonder, i havent mined in years
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Mona X
Caldari C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.07.06 21:40:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jamier Legov
What if the CPU penalty increased as the mining bonus increased? Would that prevent the BS from using 8 mining lasers but still allow the hulk to use 3 strip miners with the best 25% upgrade?
It's the way named modules works - they're always better in any way. Better stats, better fitting.
OK, worse reprocessing.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.07.06 22:16:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 06/07/2007 22:23:43 naah there's no need for another stacking penalty (unless cap recharge gets one, too ^^). the benefit and the drawback may both be exponential. with the drawback being double of the benefit, it didn't pose a problem. the "disaster" now is this relation being reversed and then some.
i could live with: x1.1 .. x1.15 cpu x1.05 .. x1.15 mining amount
this would result in something like Rokh: 1530m¦/min mod deepcores w/ T2 crystal + 4(!) aoedes, cannot be done with a "plain" T2 co-proc and full skills (thus needs faction co-proc and/or cpu imp - calc done with 34cpu for the upgrade itself (see below) still finger athletics... and the remaining cpu for fittings.. gl ^^
Hulk: 1722m¦/min 2 aoedes and full skills - not sure how the new cpu reqs screw over fittings.. a maybe a more in-line cpu reduction for mining upgrades per meta level, as i the cpu still goes up with the drawback? -
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.06 23:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jamier Legov After looking at the specs, it seems a little strange that the CPU penalty decreases as the mining bonus increases (6% CPU penalty at 25% bonus, 10% PCU penalty at 10% bonus). You would think it would be the other way around. But maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
What if the CPU penalty increased as the mining bonus increased? Would that prevent the BS from using 8 mining lasers but still allow the hulk to use 3 strip miners with the best 25% upgrade?
Nop its right because there named units usually have penalties decrease while bonuses decrease its gonna be an interesting nerf cus if they add stacking penalties hulks end up worse off, if they just reduce the amounts its no really biggie as they havent exactly got into the game yet but miners loose out once again. Alternatively just remove mining upgrades from non mining ships permanently by adding 10000 cpu to each mining upgrade then add a negation role bonus for mining upgrades on all mining barges and exhumers Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Halada
Caldari State of Shock
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Posted - 2007.07.06 23:38:00 -
[51]
I propose to elect CCP Chronotis dev with biggest balls of the year and give the Hulk more low slots.
All those in favor say aye.
Click on my sig to read it ! |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing
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Posted - 2007.07.07 04:11:00 -
[52]
The CPU penalties should be much higher, and have a bonus on all barges that brings them back to where they are now, so fitting a BS out for mining and using these upgrades is much more difficult.
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Helen Sobell
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Posted - 2007.07.07 08:16:00 -
[53]
good so its agreed, we will have ccp make the cpu use huge with a reduction for mining barges. jolly good.
you have your instructions CCP, please proceed
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.07 11:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mona X
Originally by: Jamier Legov
What if the CPU penalty increased as the mining bonus increased? Would that prevent the BS from using 8 mining lasers but still allow the hulk to use 3 strip miners with the best 25% upgrade?
It's the way named modules works - they're always better in any way. Better stats, better fitting.
OK, worse reprocessing.
not exactly true, some mods just keep the same stats for less fitting
what amazes me is that they released the new upgrades as they are - I mean, a five-times increase to bonus yield, 40% penalty reduction - and it didn't occur to them that these might be a little imbalanced? (especially compared to how other named mods work...)
ok, they noticed, they disabled them, and they will fix them - however I still hope (in vain, I'm pretty sure) they don't take the easy way out and just slap the usual stacking nerf on these mods
if it's really not intended that battleships come even close to the Hulk (with the exception of Barge 5 you need the exact same bonus skills so don't give me "zomg it's 1337x easier to train for the BS" as a reason why they shouldn't) there are other ways to nerf BS mining, eg. increasing fittings of normal mining lasers (give bonuses to Scythe, Osprey and the mining frigs) or adjusting the mods' penalties so a Rokh can't fit a full rack of upgrades in any way (with the current penalties it has never been a problem to fit 2 on a Hulk so why not just keep them and leave the yield bonuses?)
while you're at it "fixing" barges to remain superior, take a look at the Procurer BTW...
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Mona X
Caldari C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.07.07 13:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lord Loom 1337x easier to train for the BS" as a reason why they shouldn't) there are other ways to nerf BS mining, eg. increasing fittings of normal mining lasers (give bonuses to Scythe, Osprey and the mining frigs)
Arbitrator and vexor are also "mining" cruisers.
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.07 14:56:00 -
[56]
ah right, but according to their bonus they use drones for that, not sure if that qualifies for a mining laser fitting-reduction bonus along that line
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Rasjied
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Posted - 2007.07.07 15:50:00 -
[57]
BATTLEships should be used for BATTLE MINING barges should be used for MINING period...
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Jonak
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.07 17:59:00 -
[58]
I just want to know where to get these new upgrades. Loot?
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mistole
Gallente Swordbruden Mining and Security Service Inc. Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.07.07 23:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Halada I propose to elect CCP Chronotis dev with biggest balls of the year and give the Hulk more low slots.
All those in favor say aye.
AYE
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Filthy Pierre
Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.08 05:03:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Filthy Pierre on 08/07/2007 05:06:08 Edited by: Filthy Pierre on 08/07/2007 05:04:39 Visualize if you will....
A darkened office lit only by the fitful glow of a monitor and the flickering, smoky light of a couple of whale oil lamps. The wind whines and yammers an eerie counterpoint to the distant barking of seals as it filters 'round the edges of the stretched oiled parchment that is used as the 'glass' in the windows in this room...the ghostly tracings and curtains of the aurora lend a demented air of carnival as the changing colors flicker across the parchment itself...down on the floor in a cage in a corner of the room by the monitor a lithe, panting, artic fox runs tirelessly around and around in its squeaking wheel powering the computer being used by the hunched figure staring blindly into the monitor.
This, then, is the office of Humphrey "Chronotis" van Weyden and the man we see before us none other than Chronotis himself.
Chronotis knows his time is short, his minutes numbered - for he has defied one of the Captains of the ship known as "CCP". He blindly fumbles for the bottle of Brennevin he has taken to keeping on the desk and takes a mouthful only to suddenly choke and spray the raw liquor across the desktop and the arctic fox in its cage as he hears from behind him the soft, silky, deep voice he most fears in all the world...
"Mister Chronotis - do you recall what I said would happen to you if you replied to a client posting in a timely fashion again?"
Chronotis' shoulders sag - he knows what is happening and what is going to happen because the voice addressing him is that of the CCP's feared and fearsome Captain - Wolf "Oveur" Larsen.
"I am addressing you, Mister Chronotis - you have again suborned and defied me in my desire that all CCP hands without exception practice my philosophy of "Lordly Indifference" - what have you to say for yourself, hmmm?"
Chronotis lets his head fall onto his keyboard (incidentally generating some code that will cause not a little controversy when the next patch is released) and stealthily reaches for the bottle of Brennevin and the whale oil lamp both of which, luckily, are hidden from Oveur by Chronotis' slumped torso...
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