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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: madaluap on 05/07/2007 14:47:52 Ok last time i did a mission it was 2006, so i need some shipadvice. I run lvl 4 missions in 0.3, so light faction setups arent bad, but no gist-x crap.
I used to have a raven, but it allways felt like mission running went slow in it. So i upgraded it a bit with rigs.
Setup: 6* XT-9000 cruise 2* e500 nos
1* c5-l XL shieldbooster or large shieldbooster II 1* shieldboost amp 2* rat specific hardener II 1* invul field II 1* caprecharger II
3* PDU II 2* BCU II
3* CCC rig
How would this setup fare? Good enough for lvl 4? I have quite crappy missile skills only lvl 4-5 in that area.
Can other ships outperform the raven? Im a nearly maxed gallente/drone char and can use minmatar to some extend. Running missions fast is what im/everyone looking for.
I heard good things about astarte, eos and domi.
P.S: is the drone agro bug fixed? Else i need a ship that does not require/use drones.
Thanks  _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |

Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:49:00 -
[2]
for fast mission there is only one ship... RAVEN (or any version of it)
why not a T2 Xl-booster?
drop the invul and the ca recharger for +2 hardners or +1 hardner +1 ab
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:58:00 -
[3]
Dominix also works perfectly well. Also a lot easier-train for a T2 tank, a bit of cap skills, some drones skills, and any newb can do L4s.
Also, check QuickFit for the capacitor. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 05/07/2007 15:14:42 It is slow because you use cruise. The cruise Raven is so popular because it is convenient. Not because it is terribly efficient. Use Torps with a painter for better results. Works great with high end faction stuff, but should work with a low end fitting too.
Highs: 4* ZW-40 Siege, 2* Domi Siege (for CPU), E500 nos, E50 nos
Meds: T2 XLarge SB, Medium Electrochemical Cap Booster, T2 Invul, 2* Gist-C specific hardeners, 1 PWNAGE painter
Lows: 3* Domi BCU (again for CPU), 1 DB PDU, 1 IFFA
3 CCC rigs, if you find you tank holds better than it needs to replace with missile velocity rigs.
This fits in Quickfit with my skills, a 3% launcher CPU implant and 5.92 cpu to spare.
As long as you have nos targets and 400er charges for your cap booster, you can permarun everything (35 base cap, +15 from the nos, +33 from the cap booster = 83 cap, and 82 cap need), but of course you should not permarun an XL booster if you can help it. Run it when needed, and feed a charge to the cap booster only when cap drops below 33%. Thats what I do in my Abaddon and it works great, should work in a Raven too.
As for other ships, the only one that flat out beats a Torp Raven at missions against the correct enemies is the Abaddon. I am guessing a Railthron can match a Raven, but am not sure. Domi is too reliant on drones for my taste, which suck due to travel times and drone aggro issues. Minmatar ships can't compete due to arty dps issues.
Thanks SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret |

madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.07.05 15:37:00 -
[5]
Is a passive tanked eos with 200mm still good? _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |

Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: madaluap Is a passive tanked eos with 200mm still good?
'Still'? How could a passive tank on a ship that needs cap for its guns ever have been good? Those SPRs thoroughly kill your cap and thus your guns...
Active armortank with just kin and therm hard and 2 magstabs would work well enough against Guristas and Serpentis though I guess. Less DPS and more affected by drone travel times than the torp Raven, but faster warping, locking and cruiserkilling.
Thanks SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret |

madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.07.05 17:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: madaluap Is a passive tanked eos with 200mm still good?
'Still'? How could a passive tank on a ship that needs cap for its guns ever have been good? Those SPRs thoroughly kill your cap and thus your guns...
Active armortank with just kin and therm hard and 2 magstabs would work well enough against Guristas and Serpentis though I guess. Less DPS and more affected by drone travel times than the torp Raven, but faster warping, locking and cruiserkilling.
Well, i suck @ npcing. So need some help here . I am pretty sure pottsey uses a passive tank on his eos and tanks 2-2.5 k dps.
Im kinda worried about probers so a vessel with low signature and high sensorstrength is prefered. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |

LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.07.05 17:39:00 -
[8]
swap the cap recharger for another shield boost amp (better boost and more cap) and def use an x-large booster (just a large wotn cut it).
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.06 18:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: madaluap Is a passive tanked eos with 200mm still good?
'Still'? How could a passive tank on a ship that needs cap for its guns ever have been good? Those SPRs thoroughly kill your cap and thus your guns...
Active armortank with just kin and therm hard and 2 magstabs would work well enough against Guristas and Serpentis though I guess. Less DPS and more affected by drone travel times than the torp Raven, but faster warping, locking and cruiserkilling.
Well, i suck @ npcing. So need some help here . I am pretty sure pottsey uses a passive tank on his eos and tanks 2-2.5 k dps.
Im kinda worried about probers so a vessel with low signature and high sensorstrength is prefered.
Oh I am sure Pottsey has such a setup, but it is most likely for PvP. Meaning he uses only drones and probably ACs for damage. Doing that in missions would result in so low dps that you will take ages to complete anything though.
I used a Machariel for a while in lowsec. Has relatively low sig (for a BS) and I could afford to fit two ECCMs without totally gimping the setup, resulting in said 'low sig and high sensor strength'. It was not very efficient compared to CNR or Abaddon, but it was kinda fun and reasonably safe. And definitely a lot better than any passive Eos I can imagine.
Thanks SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret |

Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.07.06 19:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: madaluap Can other ships outperform the raven? Im a nearly maxed gallente/drone char and can use minmatar to some extend. Running missions fast is what im/everyone looking for.
If you're nearly maxed Gallente, do you have at least large Hybrids at level 4, and some gunnery support skills? (WU, AWU, Surgical Strike, Rapid Fire, etc?) If so, I think a rail Hyperion with 350's and occasionally Neutron Cannons will be the fastest mission ship for you. Fit 2 LAR II, DCU II and 3 hardeners in the lows, CCC rigs for capacitor. You should only occasionally need to activate the 2nd LAR and the CCC rigs will run the 1st one forever. Use 3 Webbifier drones for holding the longer range NPC BS down in Blaster missions, and a wing of light combat drones to eliminate tacklers. Optionally you could fit a smartbomb for tacklers, but I prefer the drones for that.
You should be able to do any L4 with that setup, easily.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |

Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.06 19:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Royaldo on 06/07/2007 19:53:12 drones still get silly aggro. another thing is that some of the npc's only need 1 shot aggro from a drone for a new respawn, you might be really unlucky and get 2 respawns right after each other caused by drones.(like within 5 seconds which isnt what you really want) raven is the king of missions. i use astarte and eos, and the astarte with 2 corpum a type reppers cant tank the hardest missions.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.06 20:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: madaluap Can other ships outperform the raven? Im a nearly maxed gallente/drone char and can use minmatar to some extend. Running missions fast is what im/everyone looking for.
If you're nearly maxed Gallente, do you have at least large Hybrids at level 4, and some gunnery support skills? (WU, AWU, Surgical Strike, Rapid Fire, etc?) If so, I think a rail Hyperion with 350's and occasionally Neutron Cannons will be the fastest mission ship for you. Fit 2 LAR II, DCU II and 3 hardeners in the lows, CCC rigs for capacitor. You should only occasionally need to activate the 2nd LAR and the CCC rigs will run the 1st one forever. Use 3 Webbifier drones for holding the longer range NPC BS down in Blaster missions, and a wing of light combat drones to eliminate tacklers. Optionally you could fit a smartbomb for tacklers, but I prefer the drones for that.
You should be able to do any L4 with that setup, easily.
He is looking for a ship that can do them FAST. Not a ship that can tank them forever and slowly whittles them away while doing so... No damage mods is the very antithesis of fast mission running, as is using short range guns or overly relying on drones.
Thanks SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret |

Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 21:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 06/07/2007 21:13:01 Ratting is easy in any ship as long as you exploit the cruddy ai on the rats. Other than that its just a matter of maxing out your tanking ability as thats much more important than dps.
Tip - releasing light drones right off the bat will cause enemies to lock them, battleship rats cannot hit light drones and cruisers usually cant high warriors (but they can hit most of the rest).
My biggest concern in Low sec has alwayse been pirates so i prefer not to use rigs but they can definitly help. This is going to be difficult on caldari ships since they tank in the mids but I usually bring some ew (dampers, ecm burst, ect) but I fly gallente so I tank in my lows and can afford to do that (ecm burst is my favorite since usually you get tackled by a small ship first and then the bigger ones come in later, ecm burst lets you escape from frigate tacklers no problem).
Caldari does have the bonus of being able to tank AND use a crapload of damage mods so they can run lvl 4's much faster than most but they cant realy protect themselves from mission gankers. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.07.06 21:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar He is looking for a ship that can do them FAST. Not a ship that can tank them forever and slowly whittles them away while doing so... No damage mods is the very antithesis of fast mission running, as is using short range guns or overly relying on drones.
Hyperion has a built-in 5% per level damage mod. But it also has 5 mids, so you could shield tank it like a Dominix if you want some extra damage for some missions. I'll admit I haven't flown a Hyperion in a mission. Instead I fly a Maelstrom, which has the low slot damage mods you suggest (but it also has projectile guns with lower raw damage than hybrids). But the OP didn't indicate much skill with Minmatar BS, so I suggested the Hyperion.
And maybe it's my skills, but I didn't find 4 Torps with fair-to-middling missile skills on a Typhoon to be as effective as 8 Projectiles with very good gunnery skills. Maybe 6 torps would have been a different story. It just seemed to me that if he is Gallente spec'd then a Gallente BS would be the quicker route to fast missions than a less-skilled Raven.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |

Christopher Dalran
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.06 21:41:00 -
[15]
OOhh you know for some reason I've never even considered shield tanking a Hyperion, I may have to work on my shield skills now.
Anyone who has shield tanked a hyperion care to comment on its effectiveness? ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
|

xenodia
Gallente Shadowrun Company
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Posted - 2007.07.06 22:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 05/07/2007 14:47:52 Ok last time i did a mission it was 2006, so i need some shipadvice. I run lvl 4 missions in 0.3, so light faction setups arent bad, but no gist-x crap.
I used to have a raven, but it allways felt like mission running went slow in it. So i upgraded it a bit with rigs.
Setup: 6* XT-9000 cruise 2* e500 nos
1* c5-l XL shieldbooster or large shieldbooster II 1* shieldboost amp 2* rat specific hardener II 1* invul field II 1* caprecharger II
3* PDU II 2* BCU II
3* CCC rig
How would this setup fare? Good enough for lvl 4? I have quite crappy missile skills only lvl 4-5 in that area.
Can other ships outperform the raven? Im a nearly maxed gallente/drone char and can use minmatar to some extend. Running missions fast is what im/everyone looking for.
I heard good things about astarte, eos and domi.
P.S: is the drone agro bug fixed? Else i need a ship that does not require/use drones.
Thanks 
Domi + sentry drones + t2 heavies works fine
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.06 22:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran OOhh you know for some reason I've never even considered shield tanking a Hyperion, I may have to work on my shield skills now.
Anyone who has shield tanked a hyperion care to comment on its effectiveness?
Even though it wastes a perfectly fine bonus, I have to admit that I thought about this too. At least with high end faction stuff it prolly works. I mean, my CNR shieldtanks with just 4 slots, so... Not sure about the CPU though.
Thanks SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in turret |

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 20:53:00 -
[18]
ôOh I am sure Pottsey has such a setup, but it is most likely for PvP.ö My 3k dps tank is for PvE with an archaeology module fitted. But itÆs not cheap. Use a mix of SPRÆs with just enough PDS for cap.
ôAnyone who has shield tanked a hyperion care to comment on its effectiveness?ö I passive shield tank mine for lvl 4Æs and itÆs not very effective. It works in gangs but not solo if you want to tank everything point blank. I have 3 damage mods and tracking computers fitted. Mostly I forgot about HP regne and just use the hitpoint pool for the stay hits that get me.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |

LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.07 21:24:00 -
[19]
Edited by: LUKEC on 07/07/2007 21:24:54 After 1.5 year, still didn't find good solution to keep me happy.
Eos is ok, but slow. Drones are pain as they are good way to get probed really really fast. Astarte is meh, imo worse than eos. You don't get more dps and you don't hit much with 250mm rails. Also fitting dmg mods will lead you to cap issues(I admit i didn't use astarte after rigs were introduced) Domi = look at eos. Guns can't really help, you will run into cap problems with dual rep, tank problems with 1 rep... Mega was actually ok, but nothing to write essays about. Problem is guns still don't hit cruisers, heavy drones are ok, but slow on frigs. There are certain missions where you can snipe all the way(drone missions were good example)
Hyperion = look at mega, imo even worse. It can tank, but dual rep leads to cap, dmg,fitting problems and you don't really have guns that would work(same as thron)
Edit: about raven, some people prefer torp ravens with painter and a bit less recharge. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.07 22:07:00 -
[20]
I think for lowsec, to avoid being probed out, the best ship might be Nighthawk, since it has a smaller sig than battleships and it has an innate bonus to kill small stuff so can easily do without drones. Haven't had a problem killing frigates with a beam absolution with a webber though.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.07 22:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: LUKEC Astarte is meh, imo worse than eos. You don't get more dps and you don't hit much with 250mm rails. Also fitting dmg mods will lead you to cap issues(I admit i didn't use astarte after rigs were introduced)
The rigs do change a lot, with 2 CCC rigs and two cap recharger II you can use all the remaining slots for AB, web, tank and 2-3 damage mods, and sustain it all. The dps is pretty good, I dispatch a 500k BS in less that 40 seconds, while a standard T2 BS would probably need like 60-80 seconds. The limited optimal is the only thing limiting the uberness of the rail astarte in missions, but having to move around beat seeing defenders degrade your already so-so dps, in the case of a Raven.
Most of all, I like my astarte because I can swat tacklers fast, without even having to release the drones.
------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |

madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 22:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 07/07/2007 21:24:54 After 1.5 year, still didn't find good solution to keep me happy.
Eos is ok, but slow. Drones are pain as they are good way to get probed really really fast. Astarte is meh, imo worse than eos. You don't get more dps and you don't hit much with 250mm rails. Also fitting dmg mods will lead you to cap issues(I admit i didn't use astarte after rigs were introduced) Domi = look at eos. Guns can't really help, you will run into cap problems with dual rep, tank problems with 1 rep... Mega was actually ok, but nothing to write essays about. Problem is guns still don't hit cruisers, heavy drones are ok, but slow on frigs. There are certain missions where you can snipe all the way(drone missions were good example)
Hyperion = look at mega, imo even worse. It can tank, but dual rep leads to cap, dmg,fitting problems and you don't really have guns that would work(same as thron)
Edit: about raven, some people prefer torp ravens with painter and a bit less recharge.
Yeh, thats my entire problem aswell. Problem is that im a victim when doing lvl 4, if i get probed or whatever ill die. Been there before and arazu + gang + covert op pilot = insta dead. Still the LP rewards are far better and pressing the scanner every 10 sec is something im used to anyway.
What i find quite unexpecting is that you find the megathron better than dominix and astarte. I would *appear* that astarte does same DPS only with far better tracking and same tankpower.
Ok i think im just gonna try astarte for now. Does anyone have a decent astarte setup for PvE? Do i need a large capextender 2 or are caprecharger 2 better? Is there room for ECCM (medslot)?
Thanks, i appriate the help 
P.S: im gonna sell the raven than so fitting/rigs can be worth up to 150-200 mil. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |

Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 22:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Riho on 07/07/2007 23:05:09
Originally by: madaluap Is a passive tanked eos with 200mm still good?
it sucked before and sucks even more now.
passive tank got nerfed... u dont regen asmuch no range bonsuses for guns or extra dmg compared to astarte (means you need to move ALOT) no dmg bonus to drones and they are crap slow.
250mm t2 rail astarte whit 1x t2 rep and rep rigs is enough to do all missions. well.. execpt angel extravaganza bonus stage :D
250mm t2 rails give you about 20km optimal and 20km falloff whit antimatter... so you dont need to move alot to get into range on stuff. + the astarte kills serp missions faster than the raven setup you posted
Originally by: madaluap Ok i think im just gonna try astarte for now. Does anyone have a decent astarte setup for PvE? Do i need a large capextender 2 or are caprecharger 2 better? Is there room for ECCM (medslot)?
Thanks, i appriate the help Cool
P.S: im gonna sell the raven than so fitting/rigs can be worth up to 150-200 mil.
astarte fit i use:
7x 250mm t2
ab t2, tracking comp t2, web, cap recharger t2
mar t2, ean t2, dcu t2, mag stab t2, 2x hardeners
1x rep ammount and 1x rep speed rig
5x t2 med drones. --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog ----------------- |

Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 23:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 07/07/2007 21:24:54 After 1.5 year, still didn't find good solution to keep me happy.
Eos is ok, but slow. Drones are pain as they are good way to get probed really really fast. Astarte is meh, imo worse than eos. You don't get more dps and you don't hit much with 250mm rails. Also fitting dmg mods will lead you to cap issues(I admit i didn't use astarte after rigs were introduced)
must say get better skills in gunnery then :D
i had a faction fitted raven for missions (torps) and then changed to astarte. i have no problems on missions. jump in... start shooting stuff, while shooting move toward the next gate. same as raven really. and i do missions about the same time as torp raven. BS get killed just a lil bit slower but frigs get insta poped and cruisers are 3 volleys or so.
allso a sleip is very nice against angels :) i use arty sleip atm for that to test it abit and sofar im happy whit it --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog ----------------- |

nakKEDK
Gallente North Face Force Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 23:09:00 -
[25]
if youre going to npc serpentis, then take a gallente ship, imo they will make more isk/hour.
unless you have a specced raven with cruises'
dont bother arguing with me, cause im allways right. Well at least sometimes. |

nakKEDK
Gallente North Face Force Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.07 23:09:00 -
[26]
Edited by: nakKEDK on 07/07/2007 23:09:13 double post :)
dont bother arguing with me, cause im allways right. Well at least sometimes. |

Mogrin
Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems
|
Posted - 2007.07.08 05:03:00 -
[27]
posting _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.07.08 06:12:00 -
[28]
ôit sucked before and sucks even more now. passive tank got nerfed... u dont regen asmuch no range bonsuses for guns or extra dmg compared to astarte (means you need to move ALOT)ö Passive tanks tripled in power over the past year then got a 10% nerf. How can a 2000 to 4000dps tank suck?
As for moving for PvE itÆs not a problem fit an AB or do what I used to do. Warp in aggro everything and let it all come to you. The comeplx I used to solo delt out 2500+dps I just warped in aggro everything and within 30 ish seconds everything was within 10km.
An Eos with an alt or friend in sector as a gang should be able to tank everything PvE either as an active or passive. Just use gang assist, you might not even need to.
Still if the OP really wants to do missions fast find someone to do missions with. Someone in say a Logistic support ship healing works well. The logi ship can loot and salvage while you fit a weaker tank but extra damage output. That or have a freind in a 2nd damage ship while you get most aggro.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |

Damares
Flying While Intoxicated The Threshold
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Posted - 2007.07.08 08:24:00 -
[29]
passive tank's are still ridiculous 
i couldn't get a drake past 50% shield in a tachyon abaddon with 12x damage modifier (it was a very nice drake though) which i thought was pretty crazy tbh 
ofc your run of the mill drake would die in 5 or 6 hit's, but it show's the potential for passive tanking is still ridiculous, if a t1 ship can tank like that then a t2 one with the nice base resists sure as hell can.
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Tinian Singh
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Posted - 2007.07.08 08:45:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tinian Singh on 08/07/2007 08:45:22
Originally by: Pottsey ôit sucked before and sucks even more now. passive tank got nerfed... u dont regen asmuch no range bonsuses for guns or extra dmg compared to astarte (means you need to move ALOT)ö Passive tanks tripled in power over the past year then got a 10% nerf. How can a 2000 to 4000dps tank suck?
As for moving for PvE itÆs not a problem fit an AB or do what I used to do. Warp in aggro everything and let it all come to you. The comeplx I used to solo delt out 2500+dps I just warped in aggro everything and within 30 ish seconds everything was within 10km.
Passive tanks are powerful no doubt. I guess they also will work well in plexes and ratting. But lvl4 missions are something very different. And for soloing lvl4 missions they DO suck. Because you give up way too much damage. And using an alt is NOT soloing anymore in my book.
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