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Instead of skill stacking

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The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:06:00 - [1] I tell serious gamers about Eve all the time, the first thing they say is it will be a year before I can really make money or get into real solo pvp. To a point I agree with them. In all honesty after nearly three years and 41 million + in skills, Eve is a great deal more fun to play for me. Why not tweak the character creation and play fee systems? If you pay more per month the character that is created comes out with greater skills. For every addtional $5 per month, up to say an addtional $15 (double the basic fee) you could have a character with the skills of a 9 month old account. 3 months training per every additional fee level paid. Just a thought, and it would bring in more income and players. More income means greater reasources for development and better hardware. Hooch
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:09:00 - [2] NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Lord Evangelian Gallente LEAP Corp United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:10:00 - [3] nice try, but what then happens to players who have been playign and have been dedicated for teh past year with 15M in SP...when a 1 day old char comes along buying his way into eve with 20M SP in learning wepons and ship comand....thats just wrong and sorta ruins teh whole point of eve. You grow with your char as you play, your suguessting we just scrap that and let people buy into teh game... ------------------------------------------ One day I'll show you...and then you will bow down...
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner.
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Lord Evangelian nice try, but what then happens to players who have been playign and have been dedicated for teh past year with 15M in SP...when a 1 day old char comes along buying his way into eve with 20M SP in learning wepons and ship comand....thats just wrong and sorta ruins teh whole point of eve. You grow with your char as you play, your suguessting we just scrap that and let people buy into teh game... In a sense yes, I have played for years, next to a new player they have no chance in the race of this game. The game has changed and it is weighted in favor of the long time players. I suggest that the game be made to allow the new players a leg up, if they are willing to pay for it. Thats all... Hooch
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:19:00 - [6] Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner. the problem with isk-buyers/sellers is NOT that someone makes money out of it, it is that RL money makes a great difference in game. and that is wrong Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Fenren Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner. the problem with isk-buyers/sellers is NOT that someone makes money out of it, it is that RL money makes a great difference in game. and that is wrong Agreed, but we are talking money going to the game company, this level of game experience does not come cheap, in fact it's very costly. Yes I see the issue of possible abuse, but we have that already. This would cut into people selling accounts for real money and cut into isk buying for real money, Have you seen the prices out there for this type of thing? They are stupid and a newer "get into the game" system would slow that side down, and the real money goes to CCP and not into an exploiters pocket. This is just an idea, I did not say it was a perfect solution by the way.
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:37:00 - [8] Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner. the problem with isk-buyers/sellers is NOT that someone makes money out of it, it is that RL money makes a great difference in game. and that is wrong Agreed, but we are talking money going to the game company, this level of game experience does not come cheap, in fact it's very costly. Yes I see the issue of possible abuse, but we have that already. This would cut into people selling accounts for real money and cut into isk buying for real money, Have you seen the prices out there for this type of thing? They are stupid and a newer "get into the game" system would slow that side down, and the real money goes to CCP and not into an exploiters pocket. This is just an idea, I did not say it was a perfect solution by the way. yes, and i am opposed to your idea. but hey, i am opposed to the use of multiple accounts too. I dont care who gets money out of it, the game should NOT encurage the use of RL money for ingame things. no matter if it is for a char, for isk, for equipment or for any other thing Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying And just as wrong as buying/selling characters on the forums you mean? Well, all of those are happening all the time ... this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited Hammer Time.	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:58:00 - [10] I'm with the "no money for extra privilege" crowd. The older players have indeed invested money to get where they are, but they did so by investing a lot of time as well. And I hear what you are saying about older players being advantaged compared to newer players, but that is true of all MMOs. Actually, Eve does a good job of making that distinction moot after a very short time: a new player can defeat an older player, because most of the older player's skills are worthless in a particular fight. Also, having a new player come in with more skill points defeats the "survival of the fittest" approach to this game. Eve is unforgiving, and that means on average your older player has been tempered by experiences good and bad. A higher level of quality player, IMHO. - Got grief? Revelations MySQL Database
Fenren	Posted - 2007.07.11 13:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying And just as wrong as buying/selling characters on the forums you mean? Well, all of those are happening all the time ... yes, that was implyed (spell?). just because a lot of people do a thing a lot of times does NOT make it any better or worse. well it might actually make it worse, but never better! Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Chelone	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:08:00 - [12] New characters get: - 800K+ SP with key L5 skills - Better stats (Achura, Khanid) - Quicker Advanced Learnings (only need L4 basic) - Cheap implants (<50M for +3, <100M +4, <500M +5) - Crazy ISK out of the box (3M+ per hour for destroyer on L1 missions + salvaging with almost no skills at all) Newbies never had it so good. Eve is for the patient, no loss.
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Chelone New characters get: - 800K+ SP with key L5 skills - Better stats (Achura, Khanid) - Quicker Advanced Learnings (only need L4 basic) - Cheap implants (<50M for +3, <100M +4, <500M +5) - Crazy ISK out of the box (3M+ per hour for destroyer on L1 missions + salvaging with almost no skills at all) Newbies never had it so good. Eve is for the patient, no loss. word
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:24:00 - [14] Originally by: The Hooch I tell serious gamers about Eve all the time, the first thing they say is it will be a year before I can really make money or get into real solo pvp. Well, that isn't really true though (unless you suck at the game). ------------------
Rangkai	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:31:00 - [15] well new char's get to start with a lot more SP than I got to... and if you train directly towards a specific occupation or goal.. you can get there pretty quick. However. I think the best thing to do would be to remove learning skills, add in higher level implants, and start with more attribute points. this will make the game more fun people will not be spending months training skills that will only pay off for them years later.
Reithan Caldari LEGI0N SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:36:00 - [16] Originally by: The Hooch I tell serious gamers about Eve all the time, the first thing they say is it will be a year before I can really make money or get into real solo pvp. To a point I agree with them. In all honesty after nearly three years and 41 million + in skills, Eve is a great deal more fun to play for me. You can compete in pvp just fine with a character just a few days old. The only thing is you won't be a solo-pwnmobile. You'll need to group with a gang and learn the OUT-OF-GAME skills that make people good pvpers in EVE... ...same as any other MMO, really. Actually, faster than most MMOs, due to the fact that you don't have to spend a lot of time "grinding" or "leveling" up. Just get a good frig gang going and go bust some skullz! As you gain SP, you'll just get into new ships, whether that's T2 frigs, or cruisers, or Battleships, or Recons, or whatever, is up to you. But you can be a competant Frig pilot in literally DAYS. -----------------------------------------------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:37:00 - [17] I want the nice shinys! Wah wah! Do not want train basic skills! Want shinys now! - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:41:00 - [18] I think it's a disease that comes with living your entire Eve life in empire space that makes players so extremely risk averse that they come to believe you need at the bare minimum 15+ mil sp, and a super costly ship, fully rigged and with all tech 2 or faction equipment in order to be able to do pvp combat. ------------------
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:48:00 - [19] Dear OP, you are so wrong on so many different levels, I wouldn't know where to start. Oh, ok, let's start at the least obvious/relevant and work our way up. 9 months instant training for double monthly fee. At what training rate ? That could be anywhere between 6 mil and 12 mil SP, depending on starter attributes and learnings done. Last time I checked, a 10-mil SP char would get an easy 1.5 bil ISK, if not more than 2 bil if "properly built". So bottom line, too cheap, too much. And what skills ? Who decides what skills you might get ? Do you cherry pick them, or do you get them according to school ? And would the REST of people that are playing now get the same option for their OLD characters if they chose to pay extra ? You might as well suggest BUYING SP FOR REAL-LIFE MONEY FROM CCP. It's almost the same thing. Bring more income and more players ? Hmm. Yeah, bring a couple more players who don't have the patience to play what we came to accept as EVE, players so much more likely to buy ISK too (because, well, now they can use all this new stuff but they can't be arsed to "grind for ISK") and so on and so forth. And quit a lot sooner, because, hey, 30 USD/EURO per month, that's a lot for a game which also needs extra investment on their impatient selves part to be "any good". Bottom line, we don't want that kind of people playing EVE, we're better off without them, and in the long run, they won't bring any significant income to CCP, probably quite the contrary. Yes, you do get a lot more options with a couple dozen million skillpoints. But saying it takes ALMOST A YEAR to get into *"real"* solo PvP (wtf is that supposed to actually mean, anyway?) or make any decent amounts of ISK... now, that I can only describe as either delusion or incompetence. You DON'T need more than a couple milion SPs to start soloing L4 missions. Heck, even L3 missions is decent money, and you can do that with well under 2 mil SP in a Drake, even less, if you have half a clue. As for PvP in general. Well, ok, granted, you can't find that much "solo PvP" action nowadays, you're more likely to wander deserted systems for a while, then encounter a nice roving ganksquad, a small gatecamp, a login trap or even a full blown blob, if you're not careful at all (or they just "arrived" recently and map didn't update yet). But, that's kind of the point: SOLO PVP IS ALMOST DEAD IN EVE. And you know why ? Just because of people like you, "you can't properly solo PvP without 10-15 mil SP boe-hoe". That's why people want to fly only expensively fit ships, that's why people don't want to lose said expensive ships/fitings, that's why people travel more and more in blobs. Take a few lessons from the 50-200k SP Rifter pirates of the days of old. And hope you also encounter more people like them on the road too. As for your friends, free trial costs nothing. Get them to create a minmatar special ops pilot, loan them a couple of mil ISK, teach them what urgent skills they need to train to L1 ASAP, and sent them flying pure and unadulterated full T1 Rifter setups around in the belts in random lowsecs a few hours later. Yes, hours. Not months, weeks or even days. HOURS. SEE THEN how hard it is to find solo PvP, and how much a fresh pilot sucks at it. Oh, I suppose you still know how to T1-fit a Rifter, or have you already forgotten ? Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:54:00 - [20] Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner. beginning players can compete just fine. I was killing cruisers in my first 2 weeks of play, and that was back when we started with less than a million SP. Also, while they may not be taking on battleships straight away, if you join a good corp you can be very useful straight away with just a scram and a MWD. Just think of how much ISK the cut of a gist module would be for a noob! -
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:28:00 - [21] I'm still a little aggravated newbies start with gunnery 5 and t2 racial guns. I hit 800K myself not long before Kali became Rev and suddenly every 1-day old had the same number of SP as me. Lost a whole month because I rerolled too soon (borked my first toon). You want to help newbies, CCP can switch around the starting skills. Having T2 guns an hour out of the box is nice and all, but what good does that do you when your character has virtually no fitting skills? Spread that first 800K around to engineering, electronics and weapon upgrades so they can actually fit something without filling low slots full of RCU and MAPC. -- Forum Rules: 1) Do post while angry 2) Do post while drunk 3) Never, ever break rule #1 and #2 at the same time <== Guilty
Thor Xian EarthForce E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:32:00 - [22] Originally by: The Hooch Originally by: Fenren NO!!! that is just as wrong as isk-buying Only CCP is making more money, Eve keeps growing as a game and allows beginning players to compete sooner. You are in the wrong alliance (and corp) to be talking about competing. ____________________________________________ ~Admiral Thor Xian, Strategic Operations Commander Meet the Overlord
Frygok Minmatar Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:39:00 - [23] I am a bit confused by some things the majority of vets in here write. It seems a bit contradictory. Firstly, it has been stated time and time again that SP doesn't matter. It's the knowledge and experience that makes a good pilot. Yet at the same time, the whole "No, newbies should not have more SP, they never have had it this good." seems to say that they don't want new players to have more of these SP that "doesn't matter". But if SP doesn't matter, why not give newbies more SP to begin with? It would probably add to the pool of players, and you wouldn't have players that would have to spend a year before they could fly cap ship, and spend their first many months flying suicide frigs, constantly dying to smartbombs etc. Ofcourse, I can see the argument that we don't want more players, with the state of the servers atm. Anyway, more SP for newbies would only help them this much. They would rely on corp helping them out(face it, no all-brand new player will likely get a BS within the first period of his or her EVE life. 100 mil is expensive for a first time player). So in my eyes, more SP for newbies would only make them more useful for the low sec PvP corps or 0.0 alliance corps. And judging by the recruitment spam that's going on in the other section on the forums, it looks like new players with skills are very much needed. I do not, however, think that irl cash for skills should be the way. And just to try and intercept some of the flames coming my way: No, I am not a new player who would benefit from this.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:48:00 - [24] Like hell new characters take a year to make money. I've been playing for something around 2 1/2 months and have a wallet of nearly 3 billion ISK at this point. To be honest, I'd hate to see this game turned into a kiddie-with-mommies-credit-card fest. EVE's about getting what you put in to it, and by no means should that ever change.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Frygok I am a bit confused by some things the majority of vets in here write. It seems a bit contradictory. Firstly, it has been stated time and time again that SP doesn't matter. I've never heard anyone say that. There are however people who say that SP and ISK is all that matters, and of course they are extremely wrong. ------------------
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:21:00 - [26] SP matters to a point, but after a few weeks you should be able to fly at least one ship to the point where returns realy start to diminish for more training. At that point ISK and experience matter more than all the SP in the world...
Orlando Gardner Amarr The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:45:00 - [27] to the OP NO Why would you want to create a two tiered system based on RL circumstances like Money.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Frygok I am a bit confused by some things the majority of vets in here write. It seems a bit contradictory. Firstly, it has been stated time and time again that SP doesn't matter. It's the knowledge and experience that makes a good pilot. Yet at the same time, the whole "No, newbies should not have more SP, they never have had it this good." seems to say that they don't want new players to have more of these SP that "doesn't matter". I will give you this, SP matters, it matters allot. But how does it matter? It does not matter in the least for your enjoyment of the game. You do not need more than a million SP to enjoy this game. Many have done it on a few thousand SP. What does matter in Eve is commitment. If you aren't willing to commit to being around here for several months in the least, then this is not the game for you. If you want to power level a game, do everything there is to do, and move on the next fad by the end of the month, I am sure that Blizzard is producing several games to interest you. If you want a game that requires time, that requires thought, that would persist and evolve, then stick around. This game is meant to be played over months and years not over hours or even just days. As for the oh-noes about not being able to solo pvp, you never supposed to be able to solo-pwn-pvp, this is a multi-player game. There is always a bigger fish. You can always lose, otherwise you could never win. Get more friends, or find weaker targets.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:33:00 - [29] lets get 1 thing straight you fail ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Matthew Cooper Minmatar Who What When Where Why and How	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:54:00 - [30] Originally by: SiJira you fail For once, I agree with you. Originally by: Tarminic Stop posting with your alt Kieron.

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