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Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.12 12:42:00 - [1] I just wanted to compile a list of ships that are truly in need of a boost in the immediate future. Not those that might arguably need or not need one like the Hype or Hurricane, but those truly underpowered ships that are signified by these 3 things: - I hardly ever see anyone fly them or kill them - Their price is on a steady decline and lower than that of comparable ships - The reason for the above two is fairly obvious So let me get started: - Fleet Tempest Never having been competitive with the Mach, the Maelstrom has finally relegated this one to be pretty redundant. A 7th turret slot would fix this. - Ferox With the arrival of the Drake as BC sized missile platform, the Ferox has been pushed back into its original role of rail carrier. But it does this role pretty badly (there was a reason almost everyone used missiles on it) and thus is also pretty superfluous now. One or maybe even two additional turrets and a bit of PG might fix this. - Moa Like the ferox, this one needs more focus on rails. 5th turret and more pg. - Bellicose Due to the relative worthlessness of painters vs. other EW, this one is redundant as well. Maybe change the painter bonus into a webber one. - Cyclone Similar to the Ferox, this ship is made obsolete by the Hurricane. I have a hard time coming up with a good fix though. Maybe a 6th med to emphasize its shieldtank, but that might make it too powerful and would give it 2 more total slots than the other tier1 BCs... Apoc and Navy Apoc Much akin to the Fleet Tempest, these ships have been made obsolete by the Abaddon. Imho the best fix would be to turn the Apoc into Khanid, black armortanking missilespamming beast, while the Amarr Navy Apoc would get bigger base cap and laser damage to replace the +5% cap per level. But any help they can get would also be appreciated. Deimos Second poorest HAC just ahead of the Suckrilege, this Baby needs some help too. A boost to CPU, PG and velocity, and a reduction in sig radius would do it imho. All Khanid ships Currently poor mans versions of Amarr T2, these urgently need the Khanid MkII overhaul. All faction cruisers There have been a lot of adjustments to pg and cpu of cruiser mods and the standard cruisers, yet these have never been adjusted. Time to catch up on that. I will leave it to someone else to add the redundant frigs as I have virtually zero experience with or care for them. Also any other ships I might have forgotten. It would be really nice if one of the powers that be could comment on whether these poor ships are slated for being boosted or whether they will remain their horrible selves. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
NeoTheo Caldari Dark Materials	Posted - 2007.07.12 12:52:00 - [2] good list, you possibly want to add the cerberius and the eagle tot he list as both have issues. /Theo http://atomicrain.net/eve_sig.jpg
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:00:00 - [3] Boost in immediate future? I see several of those ships not needing a boost but only some needed tweaking. I agree faction ships need some minor adjustments in general - but on the other hand they should not necesarily be easy to fit with cheap T2 stuff. Ferox and Moa needs to be looked upon - I agree on at least 1 extra turret, but it might not be the only solution. Moa need a 5th medslot more than anything and Ferox with 2 gang modules and 5 turrets or launchers is pretty cheap compared to what it does. Not all black & white. Still agree they need a tweak fast. Bellicose - most likely need a boost, but perhaps the issue is target painters and not the ship. - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:05:00 - [4] Good luck. They almost always nerf/buff the wrong thing, and that isn't going to change in a hurry. Look at the 'Amarr fix' ffs. That Khanid Mk2 thread owned, and what's come of it? EANM nerf and a tracking increase for pulses! Tux, It's ok to consider players' suggestions, no-one will think less of you...
Lolapa	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:08:00 - [5] Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:13:00 - [6] I agree with goddamned everything in this thread except whatever Pinky said. Even this new amarr boost, extra-lol! I havent removed a single ean since this boost came into effect. There were a lot of ships that werent CPU starved to start with and they will go on with the same setup, the others will just be a slightly modified. And deimos haha, wow. That ship needs to go deep into the webber domain to start doing its thing but it's slower than barn and turns like a brick! Ferox? Havent seen one in months. Earth calling Iceland, come in Iceland! ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
Edania Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:15:00 - [7] i saw a belicose for the first time the other week after playing for 3 years, granted im rarely in minie space but that says a lot about the ship (or maybe ive just been flying around with my eyes closed) Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Lolapa Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^ Dear Troll, please tell me what role the Apoc has. Thanks! ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
Kermis Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:18:00 - [9] Also add the Hawk. Needs more CPU, and better speed/agility. A 5th launcher wouldn't be bad either.
Lolapa	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Lolapa Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^ Dear Troll, please tell me what role the Apoc has. Thanks! Why do you have to corner it into a niche like that? It does what the Abaddon does, only not so well and at a lower price. Just like with the relationships between mostly all other races' different tier ships. Or isn't cost an issue? In that case the Thanatos needs buffing since it's out performed by the Nyx? Etc.

Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Lolapa Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Lolapa Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^ Dear Troll, please tell me what role the Apoc has. Thanks! Why do you have to corner it into a niche like that? It does what the Abaddon does, only not so well and at a lower price. Just like with the relationships between mostly all other races' different tier ships. Or isn't cost an issue? In that case the Thanatos needs buffing since it's out performed by the Nyx? Etc. I don't know how poor you are, but to most people who fly BS the price difference between Apoc and Abaddon is more or less chump change (what is it, 20-30 mil after insurance?) and stands in no relation to the performance increase. And this is more or less true for all ships in the same class. So yeah, ships DO need niches in their class. And thanks for advertising your ignorance by using two ships of different classes as example There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:53:00 - [12] I definately agree that the basic Apoc needs 'something'. Navy Apoc holds up pretty well for missioning compared to the Abaddon though, depending on how you want to fit it. After too much time in Quickfit and EFT I finally decided I prefer the Navy Apoc, mostly because of the higher speed and lower mass since I use mega pulses and need to get into range.
SpaceTrucker 3000	Posted - 2007.07.12 13:57:00 - [13] /signed The list is almost spot, but in my opinion the Deimos and the Apoc don't need boosts in the inmediate future. Are they awesome? No, but you could say the same about the Maelstrom, Muninn, etc...
big5824	Posted - 2007.07.12 14:04:00 - [14] eagle definietly needs a boost. its good at shooting frigs, but thats about it really
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.07.12 14:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Vito Parabellum on 12/07/2007 14:11:39 Originally by: Lolapa Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Lolapa Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^ Dear Troll, please tell me what role the Apoc has. Thanks! Why do you have to corner it into a niche like that? It does what the Abaddon does, only not so well and at a lower price. Just like with the relationships between mostly all other races' different tier ships. Or isn't cost an issue? In that case the Thanatos needs buffing since it's out performed by the Nyx? Etc. I'm not cornering it into anything. I'm just asking you, what is it you would use an apoc for instead of a geddon or an abaddon? And as someone pointed out, the price difference is moot. Don't say "people that can afford an apoc but not an abaddon" please. You will probably come to the conclusion that the apoc is good for very little, and in the extension also the faction apocs. This is what the thread is about, ships that have been made redundant by newer ships, changes or have been crap all along. ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.07.12 14:28:00 - [16] Originally by: NeoTheo o add the cerberius get a clue Originally by: Kermis add the Hawk. N get a clue aswwell Now i think you have the major gimped fields covered amarr cheak calardi rail ships check capless hpless blaster boat cheak and target painter ship cheak These gimped fields have been around for so long doubt ccp cares there more interested in adding more bugs i mean " features" snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Kokoshu Caldari Dawn of a new Empire	Posted - 2007.07.12 14:31:00 - [17] ferox as there is little reason to fly one when you can buy em of the market for minerals you know something is wrong, ferox needs a love bat.
DarkXenon	Posted - 2007.07.12 15:18:00 - [18] Yes some good ideas, definite tweaking of ships needed. Shame it probaldy wont happen for a long time.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.12 15:31:00 - [19] To be fair what the bellicos needs is more power grid. The target painters would be useful if it could fit a slightly better tank and artillery instead of autocannons. another turret slow wouldn't go amiss either.
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.07.12 15:40:00 - [20] Totally USELESS post, why everyship need to be EQUAL to all other???? Its just like life, you have good stuff and bad stuff, some overpowered and some that are not!...

Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:05:00 - [21] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/07/2007 16:05:14 Originally by: PathetiQ Totally USELESS post, why everyship need to be EQUAL to all other???? Its just like life, you have good stuff and bad stuff, some overpowered and some that are not!... Is it just me or does this person totally miss the point of a GAME ? Not to mention that this wont make everything equal, it would just make some obsolete ships more competitive... Your Nosdomi or Vagabond or whatever would still be overpowered enough for your epeen to rejoice. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:20:00 - [22] Most of it sounds reasonable, Pest with 7 turrets though? It's only very slightly less damaging than the Maelstrom. A Tempest with 7 autos or 7 arty is too much (imo).
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:26:00 - [23] Edited by: Nian Banks on 12/07/2007 16:26:06 Originally by: welsh wizard Most of it sounds reasonable, Pest with 7 turrets though? It's only very slightly less damaging than the Maelstrom. A Tempest with 7 autos or 7 arty is too much (imo). Except the Maelstrom gets a tanking bonus and so shouldn't out damage a pure gank ship like the tempest.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:30:00 - [24] Originally by: welsh wizard Most of it sounds reasonable, Pest with 7 turrets though? It's only very slightly less damaging than the Maelstrom. A Tempest with 7 autos or 7 arty is too much (imo). Fleet Tempest. As in the Minmatar Faction Battleship, not the standard Tempest. A standard Tempest with 7 turrets would be nuts, I agree. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:34:00 - [25] Originally by: PathetiQ Totally USELESS post, why everyship need to be EQUAL to all other???? Its just like life, you have good stuff and bad stuff, some overpowered and some that are not!... Let's take this line of reasoning a bit farther: Punisher and Rifter are too well balanced with each other. Let's flip a coin, and give one of them an extra turret and take it away from the other one. ~~Variety~~ Imba is the spice of life. Shuttles are all the same. Let's give one a speed bonus, one a signature bonus, one an agility bonus, and one...a remote armor repair bonus. Coolio. Blasters and Autocannons are too well matched up, with the former having damage and the latter having falloff range, fitting, and no cap use. This can not stand. Let's give Blasters the same fitting and falloff, as the game will be much more interesting with an overpowered weapon system for everybody to use. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Caios Caldari Unified Refining Federation Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:37:00 - [26] Originally by: PathetiQ Totally USELESS post, why everyship need to be EQUAL to all other???? Its just like life, you have good stuff and bad stuff, some overpowered and some that are not!... no, things don't have to be equal. but this system isn't designed to accomodate "bad" ships that are inferior by design. ships should at least be on par with other ships of the same class/tech/tier.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Kokoshu ferox as there is little reason to fly one when you can buy em of the market for minerals you know something is wrong, ferox needs a love bat. Yes it does. However, unlike those that think it needs an extra high slot, I think it needs two extra mids. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Kolwrath Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:42:00 - [28] Wow lots of trolls in this thread. Yeach. I would add to the list the Augoror-class cruiser. Nobody flys this boat at all. If it could be setup to have a mining bonus like the Osprey then it would actually be a decent mining ship for the Amarr. As it stands right now its pretty useless.
Akiman	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:01:00 - [29] thats a loong way bro... hurricane is a good ship imo but... u know moa and ferox always like that. CCP would make a change if they want to loong time ago. WTB very rare ship bellicose. u cant see them..theyre RAAAREE cyclone is not bad, hurricane is simply better. cyclone is cheaper...tho nobody want to be cheap apoc: unavailable data deimos: deimos needs some love... khanid ships: yes factions: imo they are just for collection and-or missions unless ure uberwtf rich
Johnny Rook Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Lolapa Apocs need boosting because the Abaddon, its Tier 2 counterpart, its bigger more expensive brother, does the same thing but better? Get off ^^ Dear Troll, please tell me what role the Apoc has. Thanks! Mining BS \o/ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo



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