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Why does Gallente get its huge drone bays for free?

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Selia Rain	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:42:00 - [61] Point of the OP is not that the domi can outdamage a raven(it can), it is that gallente drone bays are essentially free. And they are, in a sense. Mega has the same free dronebay a geddon has(ohnoes, a more expensive tier 2 having the same dronebay as a tier 1? omghax). Domi has a dronebay, but it's a drone ship(and very prone to fitting issues). Typhoon has another "free" dronebay, even larger than the mega/geddon. The tier 3s(rokh aside) all have respectible dronebays. Caldari get 75, 75, and 50 m3 dronebay. This is supposed to be due to the fact that the ships themselves have other advantages that balance this(EW, missilespam, railspam). Zomg, Thorax gets as much drone dps as a Rokh, hax. For that matter, vexor has much more drone dps than either scorp or raven, however vexor too is plagued with fitting issues. Myrmidon is the only gallente dedicated drone ship, and it's also the only gallente top tier droneship. It's also the only droneship that's relatively easy to fit(zounds, you can fit a dualrep tank and guns, omg!). And as a total random side note, a domi with a full rack of guns cannot fit a full tank, therefor it does need to sacrifice something for the magical tackle+gank+tank that some seem to think it can do. Raven sacrifices an insignificant amount of tank to deal full damage, but that's more of a shield tank thing than a caldari thing.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:48:00 - [62] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 14/07/2007 16:53:12 Originally by: KD.Fluffy Insults, poor logic, worse manners I will not disagree that the Moa and Ferox are in need of a boost to put them on par with their counterparts (though the ferox should be compared to the brutix being a tier 1 BC) Raven/Megathron - Consider range, cap management, tank, etc. Not to mention the Mega is supposedly our rail ship and so should be compared to the rokh which outdamages it at almost all ranges. Rokh/Hyperion - Hyperion drone bay is hardly exceptional... and just what is the Rokh going to do with drones from 250km away, except of course defend itself vs tacklers... which it's drone bay and t2 lights are ideal for. As for my "****** comment" your right, try fitting it with some rails. Theres a darn good reason people use NOS on them so often. As for tank comparison, in a PvE environment being able to fit 8-9 slots with tanking kit is pretty darn impressive, not to mention shields rep on activation. I can 3 slot tank my raven to tank any level 4 (the other three are for the two painters for one volleying cruisers and frigates and the cap recharger that allows me to perma run the tank). This includes two PDU's in the lows so I suppose it's strictly speaking a 5 slot tank... with triple damage mods and 2 target painters. Not to mention that in empire you do this with a CNR and gain a 7th launcher. Originally by:** KD.Fluffy And this ******** comment takes the cake... Learn what your talking about please before you speak up. [EDIT: Removed quoted post to reduce post size and improve readability]
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Selia Rain Have you ever tried fitting, you know, guns on a dominix? Or even getting a workable armor tanked large blaster fit? Or, you know, fitting more than 2 heavy nos on a domi? Dominix has gimped powergrid for a reason. 1. Yes 2. ever tried fitting 7 large beams on a geddon w/o tech II fitting mods w/o any other mods on the ship? 3. Yes, and a dual large rep tank + MWD as well!
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: MikadoK contrary to what you may think NO race can fit max damage and a good tank. I'd have to disagree. Since shield tankers use mid-slots for the majority of their tanking though they can add to this with the low slots. This means any shield tanker can fit 3 damage mods (the reasonable max due to stacking penalty) without affecting their tank, in fact the Raven and Rokh can fit pretty much a maximized tank (3x PDU in the lows) and still fit 2 damage mods. I would say that this is balanced by the lack of free mids for tackling, sensor boosting and ewar. You are conviently forgetting the fact that just about every shield tanker has to put 2-3 damage mods just to get to the dps level of there gallente counerpart w/o any damage mods.
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.14 17:09:00 - [65] Originally by: bldyannoyed Once you go past about 20km drones are pretty much useless as an offensive weapon, they take too long to travel and ranges like that they WILL get shot down. Oh, you mean kind of like missiles? If anything Caldari should have big drone bays specifically for close range defense!
Entity One	Posted - 2007.07.14 17:17:00 - [66] Quote: You are conviently forgetting the fact that just about every shield tanker has to put 2-3 damage mods just to get to the dps level of there gallente counerpart w/o any damage mods. You're conveniently forgetting that you're comparing other weapons to blasters, which are supposed to be among the heaviest hitting weapons in the game. The OP was just stupid. He conveniently left out the real disadvantage that most gallente ships have, which is range. Anyone who can successfully dictate range against a Gallente ship has a huge advantage. If you think it is difficult to pop drones, you suck. If you are even trying to shoot at a drone within scoop range of a drone carrier, you suck. The easiest way to kill a myrmidon? Keep them in scram range but not in web range, and laugh when the myrm's dps evaporates because his webbed drones can't make it back fast enough. Gallente ships are close-range specialists. If you're up against a pilot with any degree of skill, drones become a close range weapon as well because a webbed drone = dead drone. The reason that gallente ships are perceived as being better than others is because range is almost automatically dictated in solo pvp by web and scram range. If there was an affordable, 50 km warp scrambler I can guarantee that Gallente ships would become next to obsolete.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 17:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Entity One Quote: You are conviently forgetting the fact that just about every shield tanker has to put 2-3 damage mods just to get to the dps level of there gallente counerpart w/o any damage mods. You're conveniently forgetting that you're comparing other weapons to blasters, which are supposed to be among the heaviest hitting weapons in the game. The OP was just stupid. He conveniently left out the real disadvantage that most gallente ships have, which is range. Anyone who can successfully dictate range against a Gallente ship has a huge advantage. If you think it is difficult to pop drones, you suck. If you are even trying to shoot at a drone within scoop range of a drone carrier, you suck. The easiest way to kill a myrmidon? Keep them in scram range but not in web range, and laugh when the myrm's dps evaporates because his webbed drones can't make it back fast enough. Gallente ships are close-range specialists. If you're up against a pilot with any degree of skill, drones become a close range weapon as well because a webbed drone = dead drone. The reason that gallente ships are perceived as being better than others is because range is almost automatically dictated in solo pvp by web and scram range. If there was an affordable, 50 km warp scrambler I can guarantee that Gallente ships would become next to obsolete. Ok so lets keep everything as it is... Lets keep caldari ships obsolete
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:04:00 - [68] Obsolete? Best interceptor: Crow Best interdictor: Flycatcher Best PvE vessel: Raven Best (only) EW battleship: Scorpion Best fleet ship: Rokh The Rokh gets its award for out-ranging all other competition while fitting the high intensity shield tank that allows it to get out under fire where an armor tanker would have popped before his rep was done. There are more damaging options, but the only thing that applies damage to a Rokh is another Rokh. The only thing Caldari do poorly is solo-pvp. I started Gallente and trained Caldari for PvP and PvE. Gallente ships are fun, good for solo-pvp, small gang warfare, real do or die stuff, but beyond that I would rather take either a Minmatar or Caldari ship (Minmatar alpha is still good if it's applied by enough ships ) The only place that Caldari need attention (other than the Moa and Ferox) is capital ships but the balance of capitals in general is currently awful. Though even here being able to apply the damage type of your choice to POS shields is very useful.
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:08:00 - [69] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Best interceptor: Crow Best interdictor: Flycatcher Best Interceptor: Crusader Best Interdictor: Sabre --- How do I shot web?
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:11:00 - [70] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Obsolete? Best interceptor: Crow Best interdictor: Flycatcher Best PvE vessel: Raven Best (only) EW battleship: Scorpion Best fleet ship: Rokh The Rokh gets its award for out-ranging all other competition while fitting the high intensity shield tank that allows it to get out under fire where an armor tanker would have popped before his rep was done. There are more damaging options, but the only thing that applies damage to a Rokh is another Rokh. The only thing Caldari do poorly is solo-pvp. I started Gallente and trained Caldari for PvP and PvE. Gallente ships are fun, good for solo-pvp, small gang warfare, real do or die stuff, but beyond that I would rather take either a Minmatar or Caldari ship (Minmatar alpha is still good if it's applied by enough ships ) The only place that Caldari need attention (other than the Moa and Ferox) is capital ships but the balance of capitals in general is currently awful. Though even here being able to apply the damage type of your choice to POS shields is very useful. Best interdictor: Sabre.. by far Best EW ship:Scorpion?? did you sleep while ECM nerf hits caldari? try (non caldari) recons... Best fleet ship: Rokh? well since most fleets deal enough damage to insta pop every BS nearly instantly, no matter which.. lag has far more influence than a few % resistances.. in any non instant eviroment: Hyperion
Rusty PwnStar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:11:00 - [71] I thought the whole idea of this game was diversification. Why the hell would we want all ships to be the same? Like I said before, if you think Gallente ships are so over powered, then train for them, job done. Obviously that's too much of a challenge for you, maybe WoW would be right up your street?
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:15:00 - [72] this threads are making me kill little kittens
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:16:00 - [73] Originally by: Rusty PwnStar I thought the whole idea of this game was diversification. Why the hell would we want all ships to be the same? Like I said before, if you think Gallente ships are so over powered, then train for them, job done. Obviously that's too much of a challenge for you, maybe WoW would be right up your street? Well unbalance -> no diversification at all, because everyone use the best one..
Jasai Kameron Setenta Corp Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:25:00 - [74] Edited by: Jasai Kameron on 14/07/2007 18:26:29 Originally by: KD.Fluffy Raven/Megathron - Megathron gets 7 turrets while raven only gets 6 missle launchers, again mega has a drone bay TWICe the size of the raven. Fair? I don't think it is. I'll take this as an example. Ships are complex things. They have many attributes. Including bonuses. A 25% rof bonus is the equivalent of a 33% damage bonus. If I do 100 damage in 10 seconds (10 dps) and get a rof bonus I will now be doing 100 damage in 7.5 seconds - 13.333 dps. An increase of 0.333 dps. If I get a damage bonus I'll be doing 125 dps in 10 seconds - 12.5 dps. An increase of 0.25 dps. So lets apply this to your raven: 6 x 1.333 = 7.998. And then to the megathron: 7 x 1.25 = 8.75. Yes, the megathron still has the equivalent of 0.75 of a slot more, but the raven still has 2 hi-slots left, while megathron only has one. And you can put a lot of useful things in hi-slots. Nosf for one and I think we know how useful those are. My point is that comparing ships is A LOT more complex than comparing two single attributes. It makes far more sense to compare the performance of the ships than to compare isolated attributes.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:33:00 - [75] Quote: I can 3 slot tank my raven to tank any level 4 (the other three are for the two painters for one volleying cruisers and frigates and the cap recharger that allows me to perma run the tank). This includes two PDU's in the lows so I suppose it's strictly speaking a 5 slot tank... with triple damage mods and 2 target painters. Not to mention that in empire you do this with a CNR and gain a 7th launcher. Few problems here..... Your not going to be tanking very many fours with 3 slots.. Megathron is a GREAT pve ship. You can fit 3 damage mods, 4 slot tank and afterburner. Oh and you get 125m drone bay. Also you can fit two cap recharger mid slots and oila its almost identical to the raven setup everyone hypes up. Only differnce is the tank might be lacking a little bit, but so what, thats what your afterburner is for. Quote: I will not disagree that the Moa and Ferox are in need of a boost to put them on par with their counterparts (though the ferox should be compared to the brutix being a tier 1 BC) Raven/Megathron - Consider range, cap management, tank, etc. Not to mention the Mega is supposedly our rail ship and so should be compared to the rokh which outdamages it at almost all ranges. Rokh/Hyperion - Hyperion drone bay is hardly exceptional... and just what is the Rokh going to do with drones from 250km away, except of course defend itself vs tacklers... which it's drone bay and t2 lights are ideal for. Yes the hyperion is the only gallente ship with a balanced drone bay, though the rokh needs a 100m drone bay to compete wiht it. And by your logic the rokh should not be compared to the mega as one is a tier 2 and the other is a tier 3.... Mega should be compared to raven, and mega is broken. Give the raven a 125m drone bay and i'll say they are equal, untill then the mega is flat broken. 7 turret slots + 125m3 drone bay vs 6 launchers with 75m3 drone bay.. you take your pick, I know I have.
Mag's MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: Rusty PwnStar I thought the whole idea of this game was diversification. Why the hell would we want all ships to be the same? Like I said before, if you think Gallente ships are so over powered, then train for them, job done. Obviously that's too much of a challenge for you, maybe WoW would be right up your street? Well unbalance -> no diversification at all, because everyone use the best one.. So you're telling him, everyone flies Domi's Mega's etc etc? Your argument just fell apart right there. Mag
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:37:00 - [77] Quote: Where is the disadvantage that balances the huge drone bay they get? Cargohold.. hm no, gallente ships have more cargo compared to caldari ships in same tier Speed/mass.. no obviously not Slots?.. hm no the same Fitting?.. well not really The answer to your question is its broken............ Just join the pvp club and train gallente.
bldyannoyed Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:44:00 - [78] The Megathron isnt the Imba PvP god everyone seems to think it is by the way. Its a decent enough sniper, though not exceptional in anyway. Doesnt have the DPS of any Tachyon fitted Amarr ship, doesnt have the crucial alpha strike of a Pest/Maelstrom, what it does have reasonably straight forwrd fitting and no glaring weaknesses. Up close and personal things are a bit different. Its CPU is so tight fitting an ion/Electron tanking setup is damn difficult, and Ion or Electron setups frankly arent all that scray, doesnt have enough pure face melting power to be really worth bothering with. As a Neutron setup its a 1 v 1 beast, tbh probably the most dangerous solo BS going, but hey, SOMETHING has to be. If it wasn't the Mega there'd be another ship that was king. It used to be Geddons, everyon whinged about them till they got nerfed. Now its the Mega, and funny old thing, the same thing is happening. Wah wah nerf it. As an aside, in anything bigger than 3 or 4 man gang a Blasterthron is next to useless. A proper plated Neutron setup handles like a Carrier. I know, ive flown both, its awful. But i'm sure noone cares. It's the trendy thing atm to whinge like a *** to get things nerfed. Nerfing Gallente wont fix Caldari, it wont mean a damn thing to most people, I trained for my Thron back in the days when they were crap, some sissy whining Caldari forum *** isnt gonna make me stop flying it. And when the whinge brigade inevitably gets it nerfed im sure it wont take them long to figure out what the next best ship is and whinge about that too. Presumably th eplan to get Caldari on top of the PvP hill as well as the PvE hillis to get every other ship i n the game nerfed untill Caldari are best by default. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:50:00 - [79] Just do be sure you know.. Ions deal 10% less damage than neutrons... fitting neutrons is pretty much a shot in your own foot.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:51:00 - [80] You can fit guns and a tank on the Dominix. You won't be able to TACKLE anything, but you can definetly get guns and a tank on it. 6x Neutron Blaster Cannon II MWD II 2x Invulnerability Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 2x PDU II Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Internal Force Field Array 3x Ancillary Current Router Highest DPS output battleship in the game. If you've got a gangmate that can give you good warpins you can drop the MWD and a current router for a boost amp and a boost cycle rig for an even better tank.
Arrgs Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:01:00 - [81] Every race has useful ships now everyone shut the ** up. This is the oldest and most **** ass whine there is. My first video!
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:05:00 - [82] Quote: Nice setup. With them rigs it cant cost more than what, 240 mill? Whats the problem with cost? everyone always cries about the passive drake and it costs the same.... and it got nerfed. Hey I have a solution guys just nerf caldari they are too good!
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Fitting ions will loosen the fitting a lot and still keep a very high damage True. This is a significantly cheaper version, better tank but less damage: 6x Ion Blaster Cannon II MWD II Invulnerability Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 2x PDU II Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Internal Force Field Array Ancillary Current Router I 2x Core Defence Operational Solidifier I The shield rigs cost less than half what the current routers do, and this gives you a much better tank. Of course, you have to use Ions so you lose a lot in the DPS department.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:12:00 - [84] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Benn Helmsman Fitting ions will loosen the fitting a lot and still keep a very high damage True. This is a significantly cheaper version, better tank but less damage: 6x Ion Blaster Cannon II MWD II Invulnerability Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 2x PDU II Shadow Serpentis Co-Processor Internal Force Field Array Ancillary Current Router I 2x Core Defence Operational Solidifier I The shield rigs cost less than half what the current routers do, and this gives you a much better tank. Of course, you have to use Ions so you lose a lot in the DPS department. I wouldnt call 10% that much
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:14:00 - [85] What a painful thread to read Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:23:00 - [86] Originally by: Lt Angus What a painful thread to read agreed... CCP need to make me a mod so I can lock flamebait threads like this where the OP just sits there and yells at everyone till they all agree with himm... we are not children, if everyone says you're wrong, you're wrong... EVE Acronym Guide
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:26:00 - [87] Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Lt Angus What a painful thread to read agreed... CCP need to make me a mod so I can lock flamebait threads like this where the OP just sits there and yells at everyone till they all agree with himm... we are not children, if everyone says you're wrong, you're wrong... has to laugh so hard, it hurts his belly Yeah sure.. thats why america is still undiscovered by europeans...
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Lt Angus What a painful thread to read agreed... CCP need to make me a mod so I can lock flamebait threads like this where the OP just sits there and yells at everyone till they all agree with himm... we are not children, if everyone says you're wrong, you're wrong... has to laugh so hard, it hurts his belly Yeah sure.. thats why america is still undiscovered by europeans... /me switches into Benn Helmsman mode shut up moron EVE Acronym Guide
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:42:00 - [89] Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 14/07/2007 19:42:28 Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Lt Angus What a painful thread to read agreed... CCP need to make me a mod so I can lock flamebait threads like this where the OP just sits there and yells at everyone till they all agree with himm... we are not children, if everyone says you're wrong, you're wrong... has to laugh so hard, it hurts his belly Yeah sure.. thats why america is still undiscovered by europeans... /me switches into Benn Helmsman mode shut up moron Ah man you are so funny.. you cant even see the difference between flaming and a real argumentation.. Spamming and trolling without any point to back up you position is just so poor.. maybe i will give you a few isk in game so you dont have to starve...
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.14 19:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 14/07/2007 19:42:28 Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: Litus Arowar Originally by: Lt Angus What a painful thread to read agreed... CCP need to make me a mod so I can lock flamebait threads like this where the OP just sits there and yells at everyone till they all agree with himm... we are not children, if everyone says you're wrong, you're wrong... has to laugh so hard, it hurts his belly Yeah sure.. thats why america is still undiscovered by europeans... /me switches into Benn Helmsman mode shut up moron Ah man you are so funny.. you cant even see the difference between flaming and a real argumentation.. Spamming and trolling without any point to back up you position is just so poor.. maybe i will give you a few isk in game so you dont have to starve... how about you go back to your 2-man corp where everyone likes you? you spam constantly, this thread is useless... everyone says so, and yet you refuse to accept it shut up moron EVE Acronym Guide

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