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Removing Microwarp Drives

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Nos Klo	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:41:00 - [1] I have been thinking about caldari ships in PvP and PvE as I tend to do all too often and I got a idea - remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though) Anyways, short list of things it would influence, separated per race: Caldari: Missiles would be much harder (if not impossible) to outrun which would make them more useful. It would influence the way of tackling, speed mod + warp disruptor for example, you would still be the second slowest race but it takes more time till the thorax comes to rip you apart. Minmatar: You would still be the fastest race, would still be able to kite and outmaneuvering you would become even harder but you would be trackable by guns and could not evade missiles as good as you do now so you would actually have to somewhat tank your vagabonds for example. Amarr: You are already slow, making others go slower can only be a good thing, it also makes your guns track better and make some use for the nice range you get. You would no longer feel that much of a pressure to gimp your already bad capacitor and fitting with a speed module for which you don't have slots anyways. Nanoing a curse would be less of a option but still viable if you can stay out of web range. Gallente: Drones can no longer be outrun, no longer will that interceptor pilot laugh in your face when he sees drones coming twards him, same for pimped out speed cruisers like the Vagabond or Curse. Your drones would be a extension of your guns if you can not webbify your opponent from the start and everyone knows how devastating gallente drones are. All: Nanoships would be trackable and would actually be affected by webs. All guns would hit more often. Missiles would actually HIT and take their role as a more damage dealing long range weapon system then railguns, artillery and the amarr thingy. This is all I can think of at the moment... discuss!
Jongo Fett Caldari Dark Entropy	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:44:00 - [2] how would gallante get in gun range if webbed... would make webs way to overpowered /NOT SIGNED
Corwain Gallente Kamite	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:45:00 - [3] No thanks, I like CCPs EVE, the one with MWDs much better. Try flying with a weapon that has a 1km optimal and you'll see why.
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Corwain No thanks, I like CCPs EVE, the one with MWDs much better. Try flying with a weapon that has a 1km optimal and you'll see why. Qft --- How do I shot web?
Frecator Dementa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Jongo Fett how would gallante get in gun range if webbed... would make webs way to overpowered /NOT SIGNED nerf webs? :P ----------------------- forum ate my post again
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:50:00 - [6] Would make combat very boring imo. Minmatar would completely suck. Gallente blaster ships would get owned by anything with a web. Nobody could survive serious bubble camps in 0.0 in any ship. interceptors would by naff. have you really thought this through? DE
Dirty Den Exploited	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:54:00 - [7] uuh no thanks. Hauling my slowass mega around between targets once a fight gets spread out is painfull enough with an mwd, an Ab ony would kill it. Pointlessly stupid idea of the year
FraXy Tankalicious	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:55:00 - [8] Awesome idea! While we're at it, we should also remove all tanking modules. You'd still have shields/armor/hull to allow you to tank. Also, please remove all but 1 type of guns/launchers...we'll still be able to hit, so it's all good. Yay for less variety
Nos Klo	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:56:00 - [9] Wish I didn't cut out the anti-gallente part before posting. Anyways, for now you are superior to all other races because you can get close widouth a problem, making it harder would make you less effective and would 'boost' all other races. I wonder which race the commenters fly? Easy guess. I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range. Minmatar have great falloff on guns btw. I know my autocanons do.
sandamar Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.16 11:59:00 - [10] Would be funny for blaster boat. Of course there is lots of bad point. But if you look closely, blaster will have trouble to hit, so what? Isn't it the case for other people against blasterboat. When you look into the game right now, most of the fight if not all begins close to a stargate or belt, everytime the fight begin in less than 10 km range, so it is awesome for the blaster, but the poor amarr guy that has an optimal >10km and the caldari that use railgun are always screwed. I don't say remove mwd, but try to think that it would hurt the blaster, but it will only hurt them as it hurts the other guns right now.

LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:01:00 - [11] Edited by: LUKEC on 16/07/2007 12:01:16 Would be actually interesting. Arma could actually melt thron before it comes into 1km optimal again Overall I think it would be bad, it would make most fights same as cap fights are now, just who has more. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Arachidamia Matari People's Front	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Frecator Dementa nerf webs? :P Would make far more sense than nerfing MWD!
Vrabac Amarr Shadowed Souls	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Vrabac on 16/07/2007 12:10:36 Originally by: sandamar Would be funny for blaster boat. Of course there is lots of bad point. But if you look closely, blaster will have trouble to hit, so what? Isn't it the case for other people against blasterboat. When you look into the game right now, most of the fight if not all begins close to a stargate or belt, everytime the fight begin in less than 10 km range, so it is awesome for the blaster, but the poor amarr guy that has an optimal >10km and the caldari that use railgun are always screwed. 100% agree. Also, removing MWD would actually make ship base speed (as in inter-class difference) matter. No longer would every BS with mwd be faster than a t1 frig without one. Maneuvering would be somewhat slower, but you'd actualy have to think what do to, not just press aproach. Getting into optimal or out of other guy's optimal would become a very important factor in small scale pvp, unlike now where mwd races rule the world with their "activate mwd and press aproach" thing they do now. Gallente have small optimal? Imagine, they get a tradeoff for having most devastating guns. Need for another ship to catch up and web the target? Imagine that, Gallente wouldn't be solopwnmobiles any more but owuld actually need tacklers. Oh, and Caldari would stop being useless. Isn't that tragic? We would actually have 4 competitive races in game. I like the idea really. Of course just bluntly throwing it in would probably offset a lot of stuff but if thought out well might work for the better.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Nos Klo Wish I didn't cut out the anti-gallente part before posting. Anyways, for now you are superior to all other races because you can get close widouth a problem, making it harder would make you less effective and would 'boost' all other races. I wonder which race the commenters fly? Easy guess. I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range. Minmatar have great falloff on guns btw. I know my autocanons do. actually i was commenting on several races and i fly amarr and gallente. Minmatar would take the biggest hit which i never fly. Basically what you're suggesting takes out a big element of flying which involves skill. Speed tanks take skill to fly and can go very very wrong easily if u don't know what ur doing. Removing mwd's would take a big element of skillful flying out of combat making things simpler which is a very bad thing imo. DE
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:15:00 - [15] I agree with the OP that MWD should be removed. Remove MWD, Give AB a HUGE boost -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Nos Klo caldari ships .. things it would influence .. all I can think of at the moment Assuming the suggestion was intended to be a serious and genuine, I find it a bit alarming you couldn't figure any negative consequences for the said races. Hence instead of constructive post it merely sounds from 'my rock sucks, nerf paper!' type thing. Or, for using "if it aint broken dont fix it" -dogma: such major change would be hard to implement due required balance tweaking. What is the major problem (affecting all, not just you) that it would fix? Originally by: Nos Klo discuss! Oddly I find this phrase somewhat annoying; why so many folks use it? Can it be traced back to their school teachers (U.S. standard?)? What happended with more gentler varions, like 'what do you think?' -Lasse who actually don't fit MWD on blasterthron..
Harris Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:16:00 - [17] Edited by: Harris on 16/07/2007 12:19:29 Originally by: Nos Klo I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range. Not out of web range when huggins (Edit: or rapiers, couldn't remember it's name) are around. And it isn't just megathrons that use blasters and need to get up close. < 2km on a taranis? That's 8km+ you need to fly at 100m/s or whatever you can squeeze out of your skills and setup before you can start hitting. Might just as well fit wcs and warp out anytime a ship that could kill you (anything but a shuttle) comes on the overview.
Nos Klo	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:23:00 - [18] Hmmm, skillful flying you say? I keep seeing Vagabonds and Curses orbitting at 14km and avoiding all damage with either dampeners or raw speed. I don't see how removing such 'skillful flying' would be a bad thing tbh. Heikki, your post is very fun, so much text with so little content. Harris, if a huggin gets you you wont be going anywhere wether you have a mwd or not.
Vrabac Amarr Shadowed Souls	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:25:00 - [19] Originally by: DarkElf Basically what you're suggesting takes out a big element of flying which involves skill. Speed tanks take skill to fly and can go very very wrong easily if u don't know what ur doing. Removing mwd's would take a big element of skillful flying out of combat making things simpler which is a very bad thing imo. I think some smart boosts/degradations in ship's base speeds and AB stats would take care of this problem nicely, of course just removing mwd as things are now would create a lot of issues. Faster ships would still be faster, and they of course SHOULD be faster to prevent them from becoming useless. Keeping out of web range would still be very much possible, but coming to point blank would actually become something that's not god given. Moa and caracal come into mind. Amarr cruisers as well with long range ammo, even minmatar with long faloffs. Ships that are currently waste of bits in pvp would become dangerous and ships that rule supreme over them would find themselves in trouble when unable to force their style of fights they are able to do all to easy now. Not to mention it would make range or damage a viable question in small scale pvp unlike now when you only see rails/beams/artillery very rarely.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:36:00 - [20] Personnaly. I thinkremoving is a bit too much. But I for sure think MWD are TOO much in this game. Anything with a bonus on 500% level or more is very hard to balance. its becomes an all or nothing thing. Personaly if I had designed eve. Would be AB as they are and MWD giving base 200% speed with 100% Signature and no 25% Cap penalty. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Gladiator Jonny Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:40:00 - [21] Edited by: Gladiator Jonny on 16/07/2007 12:39:42 Absolutely stupid idea. The only ships able actually outrun missiles generally are nano ships or ceptors. No MWD = blasterboats dead, Afs being more useful than ceptors, Vagabond dead. No MWD = caldari would infact hit less due to lower sig radius on ships. yes it would hurt minmatar alot, but it would probabily hurt gallente more. however, this doesnt deny the fact that almost all frigs would be useless. Stupid idea. edit: changed a few words.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Heikki Or, for using "if it aint broken dont fix it" -dogma: such major change would be hard to implement due required balance tweaking. What is the major problem (affecting all, not just you) that it would fix? Couldn't agree more. There are so many issues in eve atm that need fixing. Bugs, balancing, support etc issues that require ccp's attention. I really don't think that diverting their attention onto a module that works fine and would require a huge amount of time to balance ships without them is needed. Have u thought about how useless it would make interceptors btw? DE
Nos Klo	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:54:00 - [23] Well... Interceptors will remain incredibly fast & they still have incredibly small sig radius. Tanking a vaga is so incredibly impossible that it does not even come into consideration? Blasterboats have the obvious advantage at the moment. You fly them so you don't want to change that in any way. I wont even comment that. Concerning caldari, they can not hit ships that mwd that good around actually, or hit for very little damage, if they do get webbed they turn it off. Also, caldari are long range attackers so mwding to them on a angle is a effective way to reduce damage, widouth MWD they would hit you. If you get close to them (caldari ships) their pretty much toast. You say that missiles are dependant on mwd and/or should be? Not all staff are there to fix bugs.
Lolapa	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:55:00 - [24] Since day one of EVE I thought MWD's on battleships was a simply ridiculous concept. Dev: Hey guys we gotta give the public another ship class. Lets give them this really big ship with lots of big guns. It'll be slow as hell but really hard to kill... let's call it a BATTLESHIP!! Design specialist: Yeah! Oh but you realise we have to make them go just as fast as any other ship so the CS twitch AWP snipers don't get bored? Dev: puts gun to his head
Streak Lightning	Posted - 2007.07.16 12:56:00 - [25] Edited by: Streak Lightning on 16/07/2007 12:56:45 eve combat is already very slow , fleet battles aka battleships move so slow its not even worth mentioning. if it was for me , id multiply all current speeds on evry ship by atleast 5 THEN we will see awesome fast interwinding frigate dogfights, divisions of close ranged battleships piercing the enemy front line while the long ranged battleships provide fire support. dreams edit : typo
Lolapa	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:02:00 - [26] Originally by: DarkElf Have u thought about how useless it would make interceptors btw? The problem isn't MWD's themselves. It's that they lessen the speed diferences between ship classes. A battleship shouldn't go as fast as a cruiser or frigate under ANY circumstanses tbh. And they don't really nowdays but it's close enough for it to seem silly. Maybe removing MWD's from only battleships and cruisers would help, or removing them all together and instead vastly increasing the base speed of frigs/cruisers/bs respectively. Anyway, people are right saying there are far more pressing issues at hand before you can even think of mucking about with such a fundamental change to game mechanics. Talk about your above average balancing act
Captain Crimson United Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:12:00 - [27] What is it with people having awful ideas nowadays, all related to each other? gallente drone whine.... caldari gunboat whine (no dronez!), now remove MWD's as they stop missilez1!1one! haxsplioting n00bs using MWD should bestopped so us missile users can have a PVE experince in PvP! Use your brain, don't become another Benn Helmsman or whatever his name was. /rant over, sorry for the trolling. I'm just a bit saddened by the bad ideas atm in EVE in general. Like walking in stations. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Nos Klo	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:25:00 - [28] If I had the choice, I would trade the PvE for the PvP anytime, i bet someone will say 'train gallente' now, sheesh. "now remove MWD's as they stop missilez1!1one! haxsplioting n00bs using MWD should bestopped so us missile users can have a PVE experince in PvP!"
Mitsuko Anari	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:50:00 - [29] Uhm... Well a BS with a MWD is no where near as fast as a frig with a MWD for one... Minmatar ships can not "orbit at 14km with the mwd" if you had spent any time flying them you would know that you do sweet FA dps if you keep the MWD running. You have to strike a fine balance between orbiting, keeping at range and MWD on/off. Gallente would die a horrible death without MWD's, even with them it is possible to hold them outside there optimal damage range. Without MWD's bubble camps would be allmighty, no escape for you mister AB user. Also dictor's would be allmighty, drop bubble warp off, gang warps in, AB using pilot has managed to get a whole 4km towards the edge of the bubble before he gets omg-ganked. Interceptors would suck, they need there huge speed to close the gap. Good Luck getting the tackle on that sniping BS with a top speed of 2000m/s... All in all it's going to impact so many things and I fail to see any positive outcomes from it? I mean battleships doing stupid speeds got nerfed with speedmodule stacking
Captain Crimson United Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.16 13:53:00 - [30] Edited by: Captain Crimson on 16/07/2007 13:52:43 Ok, i'll say it in a nicer way... your idea sucks. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).



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