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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:41:00 -
[1]
I have been thinking about caldari ships in PvP and PvE as I tend to do all too often and I got a idea - remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though)
Anyways, short list of things it would influence, separated per race:
Caldari:
Missiles would be much harder (if not impossible) to outrun which would make them more useful.
It would influence the way of tackling, speed mod + warp disruptor for example, you would still be the second slowest race but it takes more time till the thorax comes to rip you apart.
Minmatar:
You would still be the fastest race, would still be able to kite and outmaneuvering you would become even harder but you would be trackable by guns and could not evade missiles as good as you do now so you would actually have to somewhat tank your vagabonds for example.
Amarr:
You are already slow, making others go slower can only be a good thing, it also makes your guns track better and make some use for the nice range you get.
You would no longer feel that much of a pressure to gimp your already bad capacitor and fitting with a speed module for which you don't have slots anyways. Nanoing a curse would be less of a option but still viable if you can stay out of web range.
Gallente:
Drones can no longer be outrun, no longer will that interceptor pilot laugh in your face when he sees drones coming twards him, same for pimped out speed cruisers like the Vagabond or Curse. Your drones would be a extension of your guns if you can not webbify your opponent from the start and everyone knows how devastating gallente drones are.
All:
Nanoships would be trackable and would actually be affected by webs.
All guns would hit more often.
Missiles would actually HIT and take their role as a more damage dealing long range weapon system then railguns, artillery and the amarr thingy.
This is all I can think of at the moment... discuss! |
Jongo Fett
Caldari
Dark Entropy
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:44:00 -
[2]
how would gallante get in gun range if webbed... would make webs way to overpowered
/NOT SIGNED
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Corwain
Gallente
Kamite
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:45:00 -
[3]
No thanks, I like CCPs EVE, the one with MWDs much better.
Try flying with a weapon that has a 1km optimal and you'll see why.
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Lore Isander
Caldari
Paisti
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:47:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Corwain
No thanks, I like CCPs EVE, the one with MWDs much better.
Try flying with a weapon that has a 1km optimal and you'll see why.
Qft
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How do I shot web? |
Frecator Dementa
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jongo Fett
how would gallante get in gun range if webbed... would make webs way to overpowered
/NOT SIGNED
nerf webs? :P
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forum ate my post again |
DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:50:00 -
[6]
Would make combat very boring imo. Minmatar would completely suck. Gallente blaster ships would get owned by anything with a web. Nobody could survive serious bubble camps in 0.0 in any ship. interceptors would by naff.
have you really thought this through?
DE
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Dirty Den
Exploited
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:54:00 -
[7]
uuh no thanks. Hauling my slowass mega around between targets once a fight gets spread out is painfull enough with an mwd, an Ab ony would kill it.
Pointlessly stupid idea of the year 
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FraXy Tankalicious
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:55:00 -
[8]
Awesome idea!
While we're at it, we should also remove all tanking modules. You'd still have shields/armor/hull to allow you to tank. Also, please remove all but 1 type of guns/launchers...we'll still be able to hit, so it's all good.
Yay for less variety
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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:56:00 -
[9]
Wish I didn't cut out the anti-gallente part before posting.
Anyways, for now you are superior to all other races because you can get close widouth a problem, making it harder would make you less effective and would 'boost' all other races.
I wonder which race the commenters fly? Easy guess.
I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range.
Minmatar have great falloff on guns btw. I know my autocanons do.
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sandamar
Gallente
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:59:00 -
[10]
Would be funny for blaster boat.
Of course there is lots of bad point.
But if you look closely, blaster will have trouble to hit, so what? Isn't it the case for other people against blasterboat. When you look into the game right now, most of the fight if not all begins close to a stargate or belt, everytime the fight begin in less than 10 km range, so it is awesome for the blaster, but the poor amarr guy that has an optimal >10km and the caldari that use railgun are always screwed.
I don't say remove mwd, but try to think that it would hurt the blaster, but it will only hurt them as it hurts the other guns right now.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: LUKEC on 16/07/2007 12:01:16
Would be actually interesting. Arma could actually melt thron before it comes into 1km optimal again 
Overall I think it would be bad, it would make most fights same as cap fights are now, just who has more.
--------
I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Arachidamia
Matari People's Front
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Frecator Dementa
nerf webs? :P
Would make far more sense than nerfing MWD!
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Vrabac
Amarr
Shadowed Souls
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vrabac on 16/07/2007 12:10:36
Originally by: sandamar
Would be funny for blaster boat.
Of course there is lots of bad point.
But if you look closely, blaster will have trouble to hit, so what? Isn't it the case for other people against blasterboat. When you look into the game right now, most of the fight if not all begins close to a stargate or belt, everytime the fight begin in less than 10 km range, so it is awesome for the blaster, but the poor amarr guy that has an optimal >10km and the caldari that use railgun are always screwed.
100% agree.
Also, removing MWD would actually make ship base speed (as in inter-class difference) matter. No longer would every BS with mwd be faster than a t1 frig without one. Maneuvering would be somewhat slower, but you'd actualy have to think what do to, not just press aproach. Getting into optimal or out of other guy's optimal would become a very important factor in small scale pvp, unlike now where mwd races rule the world with their "activate mwd and press aproach" thing they do now. Gallente have small optimal? Imagine, they get a tradeoff for having most devastating guns. Need for another ship to catch up and web the target? Imagine that, Gallente wouldn't be solopwnmobiles any more but owuld actually need tacklers. 
Oh, and Caldari would stop being useless. Isn't that tragic? We would actually have 4 competitive races in game. 
I like the idea really. Of course just bluntly throwing it in would probably offset a lot of stuff but if thought out well might work for the better.
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DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nos Klo
Wish I didn't cut out the anti-gallente part before posting.
Anyways, for now you are superior to all other races because you can get close widouth a problem, making it harder would make you less effective and would 'boost' all other races.
I wonder which race the commenters fly? Easy guess.
I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range.
Minmatar have great falloff on guns btw. I know my autocanons do.
actually i was commenting on several races and i fly amarr and gallente.
Minmatar would take the biggest hit which i never fly.
Basically what you're suggesting takes out a big element of flying which involves skill. Speed tanks take skill to fly and can go very very wrong easily if u don't know what ur doing. Removing mwd's would take a big element of skillful flying out of combat making things simpler which is a very bad thing imo.
DE
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Mathias Orsen
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:15:00 -
[15]
I agree with the OP that MWD should be removed.
Remove MWD, Give AB a HUGE boost 
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---"What's in your wallet?"---
"There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get" |
Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nos Klo
caldari ships .. things it would influence .. all I can think of at the moment
Assuming the suggestion was intended to be a serious and genuine, I find it a bit alarming you couldn't figure any negative consequences for the said races. Hence instead of constructive post it merely sounds from 'my rock sucks, nerf paper!' type thing.
Or, for using "if it aint broken dont fix it" -dogma: such major change would be hard to implement due required balance tweaking. What is the major problem (affecting all, not just you) that it would fix?
Originally by: Nos Klo
discuss!
Oddly I find this phrase somewhat annoying; why so many folks use it? Can it be traced back to their school teachers (U.S. standard?)? What happended with more gentler varions, like 'what do you think?'
-Lasse
who actually don't fit MWD on blasterthron..
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Harris
Warspite Developments
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Harris on 16/07/2007 12:19:29
Originally by: Nos Klo
I remember a mega hitting me easy 18km which is outside of web range.
Not out of web range when huggins (Edit: or rapiers, couldn't remember it's name) are around.
And it isn't just megathrons that use blasters and need to get up close.
< 2km on a taranis? That's 8km+ you need to fly at 100m/s or whatever you can squeeze out of your skills and setup before you can start hitting.
Might just as well fit wcs and warp out anytime a ship that could kill you (anything but a shuttle) comes on the overview.
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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:23:00 -
[18]
Hmmm, skillful flying you say? I keep seeing Vagabonds and Curses orbitting at 14km and avoiding all damage with either dampeners or raw speed. I don't see how removing such 'skillful flying' would be a bad thing tbh.
Heikki, your post is very fun, so much text with so little content.
Harris, if a huggin gets you you wont be going anywhere wether you have a mwd or not.
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Vrabac
Amarr
Shadowed Souls
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DarkElf
Basically what you're suggesting takes out a big element of flying which involves skill. Speed tanks take skill to fly and can go very very wrong easily if u don't know what ur doing. Removing mwd's would take a big element of skillful flying out of combat making things simpler which is a very bad thing imo.
I think some smart boosts/degradations in ship's base speeds and AB stats would take care of this problem nicely, of course just removing mwd as things are now would create a lot of issues. Faster ships would still be faster, and they of course SHOULD be faster to prevent them from becoming useless. Keeping out of web range would still be very much possible, but coming to point blank would actually become something that's not god given.
Moa and caracal come into mind. Amarr cruisers as well with long range ammo, even minmatar with long faloffs. Ships that are currently waste of bits in pvp would become dangerous and ships that rule supreme over them would find themselves in trouble when unable to force their style of fights they are able to do all to easy now. Not to mention it would make range or damage a viable question in small scale pvp unlike now when you only see rails/beams/artillery very rarely.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:36:00 -
[20]
Personnaly. I thinkremoving is a bit too much. But I for sure think MWD are TOO much in this game. Anything with a bonus on 500% level or more is very hard to balance. its becomes an all or nothing thing.
Personaly if I had designed eve. Would be AB as they are and MWD giving base 200% speed with 100% Signature and no 25% Cap penalty.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Gladiator Jonny
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gladiator Jonny on 16/07/2007 12:39:42
Absolutely stupid idea.
The only ships able actually outrun missiles generally are nano ships or ceptors.
No MWD = blasterboats dead, Afs being more useful than
ceptors, Vagabond dead.
No MWD = caldari would infact hit less due to lower sig
radius on ships.
yes it would hurt minmatar alot, but it would probabily hurt gallente more.
however, this doesnt deny the fact that almost all frigs would be useless.
Stupid idea.
edit: changed a few words.
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DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Heikki
Or, for using "if it aint broken dont fix it" -dogma: such major change would be hard to implement due required balance tweaking. What is the major problem (affecting all, not just you) that it would fix?
Couldn't agree more.
There are so many issues in eve atm that need fixing. Bugs, balancing, support etc issues that require ccp's attention. I really don't think that diverting their attention onto a module that works fine and would require a huge amount of time to balance ships without them is needed.
Have u thought about how useless it would make interceptors btw?
DE
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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:54:00 -
[23]
Well...
Interceptors will remain incredibly fast & they still have incredibly small sig radius.
Tanking a vaga is so incredibly impossible that it does not even come into consideration?
Blasterboats have the obvious advantage at the moment. You fly them so you don't want to change that in any way. I wont even comment that.
Concerning caldari, they can not hit ships that mwd that good around actually, or hit for very little damage, if they do get webbed they turn it off.
Also, caldari are long range attackers so mwding to them on a angle is a effective way to reduce damage, widouth MWD they would hit you. If you get close to them (caldari ships) their pretty much toast. You say that missiles are dependant on mwd and/or should be?
Not all staff are there to fix bugs.
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Lolapa
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:55:00 -
[24]
Since day one of EVE I thought MWD's on battleships was a simply ridiculous concept.
Dev: Hey guys we gotta give the public another ship class. Lets give them this really big ship with lots of big guns. It'll be slow as hell but really hard to kill... let's call it a BATTLESHIP!!
Design specialist: Yeah! Oh but you realise we have to make them go just as fast as any other ship so the CS twitch AWP snipers don't get bored?
Dev: *puts gun to his head*
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Streak Lightning
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Posted - 2007.07.16 12:56:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Streak Lightning on 16/07/2007 12:56:45
eve combat is already very slow , fleet battles aka battleships move so slow its not even worth mentioning.
if it was for me , id multiply all current speeds on evry ship by atleast 5 THEN we will see awesome fast interwinding frigate dogfights, divisions of close ranged battleships piercing the enemy front line while the long ranged battleships provide fire support. *dreams*
edit : typo 
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Lolapa
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DarkElf
Have u thought about how useless it would make interceptors btw?
The problem isn't MWD's themselves. It's that they lessen the speed diferences between ship classes. A battleship shouldn't go as fast as a cruiser or frigate under ANY circumstanses tbh. And they don't really nowdays but it's close enough for it to seem silly. Maybe removing MWD's from only battleships and cruisers would help, or removing them all together and instead vastly increasing the base speed of frigs/cruisers/bs respectively.
Anyway, people are right saying there are far more pressing issues at hand before you can even think of mucking about with such a fundamental change to game mechanics. Talk about your above average balancing act 
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Captain Crimson
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:12:00 -
[27]
What is it with people having awful ideas nowadays, all related to each other? gallente drone whine.... caldari gunboat whine (no dronez!), now remove MWD's as they stop missilez1!1one! haxsplioting n00bs using MWD should bestopped so us missile users can have a PVE experince in PvP!
Use your brain, don't become another Benn Helmsman or whatever his name was.
/rant over, sorry for the trolling. I'm just a bit saddened by the bad ideas atm in EVE in general. Like walking in stations.
Originally by: Tuxford
I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:25:00 -
[28]
If I had the choice, I would trade the PvE for the PvP anytime, i bet someone will say 'train gallente' now, sheesh.
"now remove MWD's as they stop missilez1!1one! haxsplioting n00bs using MWD should bestopped so us missile users can have a PVE experince in PvP!"
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Mitsuko Anari
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:50:00 -
[29]
Uhm...
Well a BS with a MWD is no where near as fast as a frig with a MWD for one...
Minmatar ships can not "orbit at 14km with the mwd" if you had spent any time flying them you would know that you do sweet FA dps if you keep the MWD running. You have to strike a fine balance between orbiting, keeping at range and MWD on/off.
Gallente would die a horrible death without MWD's, even with them it is possible to hold them outside there optimal damage range.
Without MWD's bubble camps would be allmighty, no escape for you mister AB user. Also dictor's would be allmighty, drop bubble warp off, gang warps in, AB using pilot has managed to get a whole 4km towards the edge of the bubble before he gets omg-ganked.
Interceptors would suck, they need there huge speed to close the gap. Good Luck getting the tackle on that sniping BS with a top speed of 2000m/s...
All in all it's going to impact so many things and I fail to see any positive outcomes from it? I mean battleships doing stupid speeds got nerfed with speedmodule stacking 
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Captain Crimson
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:53:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Captain Crimson on 16/07/2007 13:52:43
Ok, i'll say it in a nicer way... your idea sucks.
Originally by: Tuxford
I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.07.16 13:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nos Klo
Blasterboats have the obvious advantage at the moment. You fly them so you don't want to change that in any way. I wont even comment that.
edit: typo
Arf, you think blasterboats are the dominant force in PVP atm? I think you and murder one should go on a date, you could out-idiot each other until you both foam up at the mouth and implode out of rage.
Also, your stipulation that because a thron could hit you (NOT for full damage) at 18k means blasterboats would survive.... just comedy. Only BS neutrons with null can do that, so it obsoletes the Taranis, Incursus, Thorax, Deimos, Brutix and Eos, as well as making the Astarte (whic can sc*****around 15k) do crap damage. It gets rid of Electrons and Ions completely, as they have a fraction of the falloff neutrons do, as well as obviously getting rid of Void and Antimatter ammo (so in effect a huge damage and tracking nerf to whatever blasters are left!). Oh, and the only setups left, Neutron Astarte/Mega/Hype have to lose whatever tank fits they had to fit nothing but Neutrons, damage mods and trackign comps. If thats not a complete ruination of a weapon class, Idont know what is.
As for "if you get up close to caldari ships they're pretty much toast" - I've seen a T2 fit/t1 rigged raven survive my t2 fit/t1 rigged max-damage (around 1250 DPS) megathron for long enough to put me into structure - if we hadnt started at 5km he could have won. Its a complete fallacy that caldari cant tank up close AND deal ranged damage at the same time.
One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 14:23:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Nos Klo on 16/07/2007 14:35:07
Neuromondis...
Guns would have a harder time hitting, missiles would do more damage, drones could do some damage. Guns can not hit already or did I miss something? I have yet to see a speed tanked ship run out of cap before its target dies So the only thing it would do is weaken a speed tank to missiles and drones. Dunno if that is good or bad by your opinion.
Bubble? I think many people were unhappy about some changes years ago too, module stacking & torpedo changes for example. They were for the better (I guess, wasn't playing at the time)), like this too (imho).
I fly minmatar and caldari.
Your saying a Raven held its tank, alright, and didn't warp off because you weren't webbed or scrammed? If you put all your slots into tanking you get a good tank. Of course.
Inti can mwd 150km away to tackle a sniper BS before it warps, eh? If it is ordered to stay there then it'll do it I guess, im not into the 0.0-ish logic myself.
edit: didn't see a second page emerge, more stuff
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Gaige Gamba
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:18:00 -
[33]
/me is posting in a "boost Caldari, nerf everyone else" thread
Just because your torpedoes can't hit a frigate travelling at 2-3 k/s doesn't mean the frigate and its mwd is overpowered. 
If you want to hit frigates, use assault launchers. Or better yet, Warrior IIs. Or both?
Adapt or die tbh. Pvp is fine where it's at atm. Maybe your Raven wasn't designed to omgwtfbbq things from under 10km? Maybe the Megathron was?
Now aren't those novel ideas.
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Lucus Ranger
Gallente
Infortunatus Eventus
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:26:00 -
[34]
MWD is probably one of the few modules that hasn't been changed/boosted or nerfed in the last 2-3 years, so why now in all honesty? Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
This change would also end blasterboats since most people would probably instead switch to rails, I know I would.
Some Caldari gunboats do need a boost though, I would agree there. As for the missile ships, well my alt loves torp spurting dampning raven :P
/Prince of Darkness at your service..
Disclaimer: None of my ideas or posting reflects my Alliance/Corp in any way |
Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:36:00 -
[35]
Why don't you fit an MWD to your ship and take advantage of it?
Not like MWD is race specific.
The only ship that can mitigate missile damage are FAST ceptors and the odd nano ship.
Vs. any other ship setup missiles work very well in small scale pvp. They do amazing damage, cover great range and don't miss.
I hate you players that whine for nerfs instead of thinking up a solution. Only when there is no solution should the devs tweak things.
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Mitsuko Anari
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:38:00 -
[36]
TBH I still haven't seen you state one thing that would make the game better if MWD's did not exist...
I seriously doubt your knowledge/experience as a minmatar pilot also... It's not like any decent minmatar pilot burns around with his mwd running at all times because as said previously he will outrun his own tracking. Minmatar would be boring as **** in AfterBurner EVE where they would fly like crows... Hit orbit at 15km, turn everything on, wait for other guy to die, scoop loot.
As it stands with MWD's minmatar are fun to fly, you have to manage your cap, manage your own tranversal, juggle between orbit, keep at range, mwd on/off...
bleh dunno why I am bothering TBH. There isn't a chance in hell this could EVER happen because MWD's are the only thing vaguely close to a counter to 0.0 bubbles...
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.16 17:16:00 -
[37]
I think removing it would a bit harsh.. but maybe reduce the effect a little.
I would suggest a 300% bonus for T1 unnamed and a reduced cap penality like 15% [yes i am aware that would cause issues with thorax, but thats another story].
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Vrabac
Amarr
Shadowed Souls
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Posted - 2007.07.16 18:05:00 -
[38]
Got to admit all these gallente people spitting childish insults and saying missiles to "amazing damage" made me honestly laugh.
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Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 18:38:00 -
[39]
Hmmm im fighting a lost battle I see.
Guess I can only hope that amarr get overpowered again so that everyone switches to them instead of... *cough* so I can get this over. Better luck next time I guess.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.16 18:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nos Klo
Edited by: Nos Klo on 16/07/2007 14:37:06
Edited by: Nos Klo on 16/07/2007 14:36:28
Edited by: Nos Klo on 16/07/2007 14:35:54
Edited by: Nos Klo on 16/07/2007 14:35:07
Neuromondis...
Guns would have a harder time hitting, missiles would do more damage, drones could do some damage. Guns can not hit already or did I miss something? I have yet to see a speed tanked ship run out of cap before its target dies So the only thing it would do is weaken a speed tank to missiles and drones. Dunno if that is good or bad by your opinion.
Bubble? I think many people were unhappy about some changes years ago too, module stacking & torpedo changes for example. They were for the better (I guess, wasn't playing at the time)), like this too (imho).
I fly minmatar and caldari. One word - vagabond.
Your saying a Raven held its tank, alright, and you didn't warp off because you weren't webbed or scrammed? If you put all your slots into tanking you get a good tank. Of course.
Inti can mwd 150km away to tackle a sniper BS before it warps, eh? If it is ordered to stay there then it'll do it I guess, im not into the 0.0-ish logic myself.
edit: didn't see a second page emerge, more stuff, typo's, and more typo's, gonna go get a drink
this idea makes no sense... removing MWDs will simply break the game... close range ships get a disadvantage long-ranged ships get an advantage... small ships get a disadvantage, large ships get an advantage... guns get a disadvantage, missiles get an advantage
how does any of that crap make any sense?
oh this explains it: "im not into the 0.0-ish logic myself." what happened, you were low-sec ratting and a pirate with a MWD ganked you in a belt? you shouldn't be ALLOWED to propose such changes if you don't know what 0.0 combat is like... no one would survive a bubble camp FFS
don't feed the trolls |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.07.16 19:08:00 -
[41]
Just remove the Caldari race, problem solved.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Nos Klo
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Posted - 2007.07.16 19:09:00 -
[42]
"this idea makes no sense... removing MWDs will simply break the game... close range ships get a disadvantage long-ranged ships get an advantage... small ships get a disadvantage, large ships get an advantage... guns get a disadvantage, missiles get an advantage
how does any of that crap make any sense?"
How not?
"h this explains it: "im not into the 0.0-ish logic myself." what happened, you were low-sec ratting and a pirate with a MWD ganked you in a belt? you shouldn't be ALLOWED to propose such changes if you don't know what 0.0 combat is like... no one would survive a bubble camp FFS"
I spent 4-5 months in 0.0, wouldn't wanna go back. MWD saved my ship many times. Id still like to see it removed. And, last time I was ganked in a belt was 10 or 11 months ago I think. See? Is it so hard to behave?
Did I mention I don't care for your precious 0.0?
I'll just stop posting in this thread I guess, when replys look like this its a good sign to let it burn.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Coalition Of Empires
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wayward Hooligan
something
Would you mind removing the https:// from your sig URL? The SSL certificate on your site is not signed by any recognized authority and makes browsers pop up a security warning every time a thread you've posted in is loaded.
I'd have sent this issue to [email protected] but that mailbox bounces.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Vitrael
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:13:00 -
[44]
Great thread, yeah, because the nerf on MWD (-25% capacitor, +500% signature radius, +25% mass) isn't nearly enough to make it balanced.
/sarcastically signed.
----------
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Tammarr
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Wayward Hooligan
something
Would you mind removing the https:// from your sig URL? The SSL certificate on your site is not signed by any recognized authority and makes browsers pop up a security warning every time a thread you've posted in is loaded.
I'd have sent this issue to [email protected] but that mailbox bounces.
Just accept it perma?
Dont give support to the monopolistic bloodsuckers that states you realy realy need to pay X to get on the microsoft coalition of verified usages, for what... not getting a warning *sighs*
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Coalition Of Empires
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:28:00 -
[46]
How about he just removes https, as there is no need to fetch a forum sig over a secured socket connection, regardless of who signed the certificate?
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:28:00 -
[47]
No, it's a horrible idea.
But I must say that the idea of warping in at 220 km in a scorp and having plenty of time to warp out when even the fastest inties close slowly on AB sounds delightful.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.16 19:32:00 -
[48]
Is there some sort of 'Silliest thread' award?
MWD`s are here for a reason. They perfectly fine.
---
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Bregolas
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 19:38:00 -
[49]
I have a better idea, why not have the ability to remove mwds from your client, so you can live in a little bubble of your own. Check the option and all mwds that you own disappear and it also disappears from your version of market. Then everyone else can get on with playing the game and you can be happy....
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 20:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Nos Klo
I fly minmatar and caldari. One word - vagabond.
If you fly the vaga you should know that it cannot speedtank with the MWD *and* deal dps. Its guns cannot track its target when it orbits at MWD speed.
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Julius Romanus
Free Space Development Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 20:04:00 -
[51]
If we're nerfing missle explosion velocity too then sure why not. Why would we need to do that? So that a caracal with 3x bcu and 5 heavy missles cant instapop an inty just for being in the same system.
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Incantare
Caldari
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 20:59:00 -
[52]
Lulz a Caracal killing inties with heavies, that's a good one. Overall taking out MWDs would be a missile nerf. Interceptors that outrun missiles aside I would much rather fight a ship with an MWD than an AB in a missile boat.
One reason: sig radius.
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The Djego
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 21:12:00 -
[53]
Well everybody will fit Long Range Weapons, Tackling will be very hard and most of the Fights will yust end up with a ship that warps out.
This will be preaty boring. CCP shoud bring in Heavy Assault Torpedos with a Range of 15km. Well mayby I will see them this often than Heavy Assault Missles. No Caldari will use them because of: "Omg they have no Range and a Target can simply stay out of my Range, I will just use CMs and hit him on range.".
Well the big Damage of a Megathron is a trade of for Range you need to get real close. It only works that good because most People don¦t fit MWDs on her ships and this is a fact. Any Cruiser with a MWD can simply outrun a Megathron and a BS mayby can hold it out of Optimal long enught to force him to burn all his Cap so he can¦t Tank if he gets close.
Speed tanks the other hand trade of her Tank lots of DPS to be that fast. With a good Tank you can simply outank them, while her Cap is running out so they have to slow down or disengage.
There will be allways a couter, you just have to stop to use the 0815 Fittings and make up your mind to couter them.
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MrTripps
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 21:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nos Klo
remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though)
Well...ok...as long as we can still fit them on a POS.
"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell |
Gaige Gamba
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 21:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: MrTripps
Originally by: Nos Klo
remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though)
Well...ok...as long as we can still fit them on a POS.
Everyone else can stop posting now, the thread has been won. 
|
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 21:28:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Corwain
No thanks, I like CCPs EVE, the one with MWDs much better.
Try flying with a weapon that has a 1km optimal and you'll see why.
800mm II - 16km(20km) Falloff/4.8km(6km) Optimal - 20.8km Effective(26km Modified)
Neutron II - 10km(12.5km) Falloff/7.2km(9km) Optimal - 17.2km Effective(21.5km Modified)
Mega Pulse II - 8km(10km) Falloff/24km(30km) Optimal - 32km Effective (40km Modified)
I don't think MWDs are needed, however the way Webifiers work could be reviewed.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Docain
Roid Vandals
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 21:39:00 -
[57]
Well, I've thought about this, too. The most important thing about MWDs is that they make it possible to cover large distances in very short time. Thus they have a huge influence on PvP in general and are predominant in almost every setup.
Removing MWDs might work, but its unlikely CCP would do that. It creates balance problems, especially for fights between snipers and close-range ships. But most important, many people are used to run MWDs and they just don't want to loose them. It's obvious that a majority is against removing them, so even though the idea sounds good, I doubt we could make this reality.
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Litus Arowar
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 22:04:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Docain
Well, I've thought about this, too. The most important thing about MWDs is that they make it possible to cover large distances in very short time. Thus they have a huge influence on PvP in general and are predominant in almost every setup.
Removing MWDs might work, but its unlikely CCP would do that. It creates balance problems, especially for fights between snipers and close-range ships. But most important, many people are used to run MWDs and they just don't want to loose them. It's obvious that a majority is against removing them, so even though the idea sounds good, I doubt we could make this reality.
hey I'm a MWD user, and I'd love to see them removed and the ABs set up to fill their role... hell, if webs, scrams, drones, missiles, and everything else was adjusted accordinly I could easily set up a crusader of doom, which was still faster than everything else, and had more spare cap, cpu, and grid! not to mention being harder to hit
don't feed the trolls |
Emsee
S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 22:17:00 -
[59]
MWDs aren't broken, leave them alone.
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inmekrack
|
Posted - 2007.07.16 22:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nos Klo
I have been thinking about caldari ships in PvP and PvE as I tend to do all too often and I got a idea - remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though)
Anyways, short list of things it would influence, separated per race:
Caldari:
Missiles would be much harder (if not impossible) to outrun which would make them more useful.
It would influence the way of tackling, speed mod + warp disruptor for example, you would still be the second slowest race but it takes more time till the thorax comes to rip you apart.
Minmatar:
You would still be the fastest race, would still be able to kite and outmaneuvering you would become even harder but you would be trackable by guns and could not evade missiles as good as you do now so you would actually have to somewhat tank your vagabonds for example.
Amarr:
You are already slow, making others go slower can only be a good thing, it also makes your guns track better and make some use for the nice range you get.
You would no longer feel that much of a pressure to gimp your already bad capacitor and fitting with a speed module for which you don't have slots anyways. Nanoing a curse would be less of a option but still viable if you can stay out of web range.
Gallente:
Drones can no longer be outrun, no longer will that interceptor pilot laugh in your face when he sees drones coming twards him, same for pimped out speed cruisers like the Vagabond or Curse. Your drones would be a extension of your guns if you can not webbify your opponent from the start and everyone knows how devastating gallente drones are.
All:
Nanoships would be trackable and would actually be affected by webs.
All guns would hit more often.
Missiles would actually HIT and take their role as a more damage dealing long range weapon system then railguns, artillery and the amarr thingy.
This is all I can think of at the moment... discuss!
what a bell boy, idea sucks :P die caldari scum
|
Vrabac
Amarr
Shadowed Souls
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 00:00:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Docain
Well, I've thought about this, too. The most important thing about MWDs is that they make it possible to cover large distances in very short time. Thus they have a huge influence on PvP in general and are predominant in almost every setup.
Removing MWDs might work, but its unlikely CCP would do that. It creates balance problems, especially for fights between snipers and close-range ships. But most important, many people are used to run MWDs and they just don't want to loose them. It's obvious that a majority is against removing them, so even though the idea sounds good, I doubt we could make this reality.
So it's actually possible to disagree with someone on this forum and be polite. I don't believe this. I'm probably hallucinating... Can't be, all people here are virtual bullies that enjoy being rude to others over the internet because they have no balls to do it when it counts. You sir are not real.
|
Litus Arowar
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 00:06:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vrabac
Originally by: Docain
Well, I've thought about this, too. The most important thing about MWDs is that they make it possible to cover large distances in very short time. Thus they have a huge influence on PvP in general and are predominant in almost every setup.
Removing MWDs might work, but its unlikely CCP would do that. It creates balance problems, especially for fights between snipers and close-range ships. But most important, many people are used to run MWDs and they just don't want to loose them. It's obvious that a majority is against removing them, so even though the idea sounds good, I doubt we could make this reality.
So it's actually possible to disagree with someone on this forum and be polite. I don't believe this. I'm probably hallucinating... Can't be, all people here are virtual bullies that enjoy being rude to others over the internet because they have no balls to do it when it counts. You sir are not real.
I'm an ******* in real life too... and the reason we're rude is cause the idea isn't well thought out and involves a major game change... it's also the third such thread in as many days (90km scram, dronebay removal, and this)
forgive me for losing my patience
don't feed the trolls |
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 05:10:00 -
[63]
You think the removal of MWDs isn't well thought out? You should have seen when they were added.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Litus Arowar
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 05:31:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Litus Arowar on 17/07/2007 05:31:09
Originally by: Anubis Xian
You think the removal of MWDs isn't well thought out? You should have seen when they were added.
I was here when they were added... and I kept using the 10MN AB on my inty (actually I don't even know if these were around back then)... honestly, almost no one used MWDs when they first came out, most people just stacked a couple of oversized ABs instead
but removing them years later (however long it's been) would be ridiculous
don't feed the trolls |
Tomsudy
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:09:00 -
[65]
if this ever happened i would just quit eve
stop suggesting ******** ideas
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Graalum
Foundation
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:30:00 -
[66]
can we have the taunt modules as well? 
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Givemeyours
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 07:58:00 -
[67]
Nos Klo... Klo is a german word for toilet ^^ And you can put your Idea in it and flush several times :) Sorry but that would screw a lot! I fly all 4 races and cause you are to "stupid" to fly caldari in the right way you want to nerf something... I dont read page 2 but have anyone sayed that caldari can fit blasters too?? Noone of you ever seen these nasty Blaster-Rokhs? But hey im just a gallente and only get a damage boni on my ship - so caldari will profit from your idea to much! Rails and Missiles will be better and the range bonus on some caldari ships will only support this.
And when I here someone say "Hey most pvp starts within 10km" i could scream. Hey a pirate ganged you in a lowsec belt? Watch your screen! When he just start to lock you when he is in webrange than you have a problem (talking about none bl÷inking pirates). The MWD only saves the pirate a little bit time to aproach guys like you :D
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Noxious IV
Dawn of a new Empire
Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 10:16:00 -
[68]
I am really failing to understand the logic of removing MWD. No offense but its such a care-bear thing to do as MWD don't work in "most" missions.
By removal of MWD's all gangs would turn into sniping ships. Solo and small gang PVP would be removed to just "roaming" sniper gangs. (Vagabonds with AB's just don't work)
Basically what happened is the op got ganked in low sec whilst ratting in a belt in a caracel. Then somone (probably me ... Yarrrrrrrrrr) warped in at 50km, slapped on MWD and popped him.
You rat in low sec, you run the risk. But i think to be honest this is a worse idea than the "remove drones from eve" thread.
P.S. we all know that caldari need a buff for PVP, but this is not the way
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Ishbuanium
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 15:22:00 -
[69]
No.
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Tanksmann
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 15:29:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Tanksmann on 17/07/2007 15:29:40
Nos Klo:
1) Linkage
2) search : balance
3) Read definition 5 times
4) Apply the idea to EVE
5) Understand why MWDs work fine.
6) Congrats! You have successfully used your brain!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 15:40:00 -
[71]
The removal might not be nice. But anyone that USES the brain van see that there is soem concerns when a modules give 500% bonuses. Its too good when compared to AB. A solution would be to boost AB a bit.
Increase AB boost by 50%
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 15:51:00 -
[72]
Remove MWDs but make ABs 250% (280% t2) and beyond.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Gibbal Slogspit
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 16:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Remove MWDs but make ABs 250% (280% t2) and beyond.
So like 4-5K in an inty, without the sig radious penalty or cap penalty.
"Your Bloodclaw Light Missile hits Crow doing 0.1 damage."
|
Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 16:17:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Gibbal Slogspit
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Remove MWDs but make ABs 250% (280% t2) and beyond.
So like 4-5K in an inty, without the sig radious penalty or cap penalty.
"Your Bloodclaw Light Missile hits Crow doing 0.1 damage."
How much does your Bloodclaw Light Missile do to an mwding Crow now?
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 16:19:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Gibbal Slogspit
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Remove MWDs but make ABs 250% (280% t2) and beyond.
So like 4-5K in an inty, without the sig radious penalty or cap penalty.
"Your Bloodclaw Light Missile hits Crow doing 0.1 damage."
that would be absolutely no change from how it is now...
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Liam Fremen
Gallente
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus .Ex. Machina
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 16:28:00 -
[76]
Terrible Idea 
I can understand that you are bored of vagabonds killing you and your corp mate while ratting, or when isthar do so, or even ceptors kill your ppl in gangs.... now think about this but well you can't **** up everything beacause you are not able to use 2 stasis webifier on a single target and wtf pwn him, all ships with 4-5 med slot can do it.
By the way the main problem of removing mwd are the following:
1) Large bubble will give a enormous territorial control, too much.
2) 130km Sniper battleships will be the best ship all around, no-one can reach them in "decent" time and if someone warp back for catch them they can just warp while alligned.
3) All "small" ships will be plain dead, drones will just wtfpwn any frigate.
4) This will bring death to the megathron, and all blaster boats.
I could continue for hours, but these for 4 points are already too much :)
By the way, beafore asking something like this reconsider the fact that you are not enjoying fighting vagabonds/etc beacause you are not thinking how to deal with them, not beacause they are overpowered, maybe the use with Snake sets is but is a different deal.
PS: i can't fly vagabond and i don't use any "NANO" ship, i'm a tempest/mega pilot :)
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Check me out! I'm so badass that i scare off myself! |
Aki Yamato
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 17:01:00 -
[77]
IMO a lot of people here lacks a lot of imagination. Of course Just removing MWD suck, but with aditional tweaking like shorting all weapons range (smaller differences in ships speeds requires small differences in weapon ranges), it would bring some fun.
BTW much rpobably most limited minded people will not survive that change, AB boosting would be much easyer way :)
Lets say 300% AB ?
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 17:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Liam Fremen
1) Large bubble will give a enormous territorial control, too much.
2) 130km Sniper battleships will be the best ship all around, no-one can reach them in "decent" time and if someone warp back for catch them they can just warp while alligned.
3) All "small" ships will be plain dead, drones will just wtfpwn any frigate.
4) This will bring death to the megathron, and all blaster boats.
1. It already is, mwd doesnt change that
2. Well.. now it would make sense to bring sniper ships in your own gang? Oh no that would gimp our overall dps...
3. Actually T2 light drones can catch most frigates already, if its not a ceptor or maybe a minmatar frig.
4. No it would put them in their right role.. made for close combat. Its pretty hillarious to see people saing, yeah they got mwd so they can reach long range ships fast to wtfbbq them without a chance... What the hell are long range ships worth if you build an instant counter for them?
As i already stated before, removing would go to far, but cap the effect a little. Already said: 300% boost on T1 unnamed, 15% cap penality.
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IceForce
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 17:29:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Dirty Den
uuh no thanks. Hauling my slowass mega around between targets once a fight gets spread out is painfull enough with an mwd, an Ab ony would kill it.
Pointlessly stupid idea of the year
signed
|
Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence
Acheron Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 17:37:00 -
[80]
No. I think the MWD is fine. It adds a different dimension to gameplay and forces us to think about how we do things. Much in the same way as cloaking adds a whole new dimension to things. These things keep battle from getting too flat. There's always something that you haven't considered...and something your enemy hasn't either.
|
sandamar
Gallente
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 19:01:00 -
[81]
Blabla :)
Quote:
This will be preaty boring. CCP shoud bring in Heavy Assault Torpedos with a Range of 15km. Well mayby I will see them this often than Heavy Assault Missles. No Caldari will use them because of: "Omg they have no Range and a Target can simply stay out of my Range, I will just use CMs and hit him on range.".
Maybe you shoud learn some part of the game before posting stuff like that. You know the only reason why i don't use HAM? Not because sometime i won't be in range, but pureply because they have more fitting req than the HM. Ain't it funny the only short range weapon in the game that needs more fitting req than its long range part is the HAM.
Besides using HM+2BCS is same dps than using HAM+1BCS ( you have to put a reactor control unit to make it fit, so same slot count), and plus you have lower range. Now tell me would you be stupid enough to use this kind of launcher, knowing that for the same fitting slot you have same dps but weaker range possibility ?
So if it is the same for torpedoes assault, then don't bother building it ccp.
By the way people saying use mwd, well too bad i am specced caldari and amarr ( not much luck no ? :p, well i use to have more fun when amarr were good and pre missile nerf, but i think it is part of the deal, to be weaker some time :p ), use mwd on your amarr ship and you end up having turrets that still eat your cap awfully, but you now have less cap, and need more cap to run the mwd, not to mention that you will have to find cpu/grid spare to fit those which is quite tough to do on amarr ship.
So here was py point of view :)
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Jasai Kameron
Setenta Corp
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 20:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
4. No it would put them in their right role.. made for close combat. Its pretty hillarious to see people saing, yeah they got mwd so they can reach long range ships fast to wtfbbq them without a chance... What the hell are long range ships worth if you build an instant counter for them?
As i already stated before, removing would go to far, but cap the effect a little. Already said: 300% boost on T1 unnamed, 15% cap penality.
Just out of curiosity, how often have you flown blasterships?
A gang of megathrons is not going to be able to get to a gang of sniperships 150km away in time to wtfbbq them. For one, their cap will probably run out by the time they get to 100k. For another, there's going to be a gang of sniperships firing at.
Just, no. Blasterships are not an instant counter to sniperships. The only case they will be is if you have a very good covops pilot and a well-led gang and a fairly stupid opponent i.e. you get to a 10km warp in. But that's not an issue with MWD.
But, by your logic, we should boost MWD so that blasterships have a chance of getting to sniperships in time - because believe me, you don't see many 100 man blaster fleets.
Ships are good at different roles. Shortrange works in small gangs and solo. Longrange works in large gang. If you think blasterships are overpowered then you're slightly mad. They have huge penalties for that MWD.
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Luna Nilaya
Black-Mesa
THE V I G I L
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 21:14:00 -
[83]
I actually thought that MWD wouldn't give you more speed but let you warp short distances.
The name is just stupid because it has nothing to do with warping :(
Change the name or modify the module!
|
Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.17 21:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nos Klo
I have been thinking about caldari ships in PvP and PvE as I tend to do all too often and I got a idea - remove Microwarp Drives! (from ships only though)
Just out of general curiosity, what is there other than ships?
-------------------------------
C.D's Formula for success
-------------------------------
Credit Card = Game Time Card
Gametime Card = ISK
Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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