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Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:08:00 - [1] Edited by: Brox alDragoran on 17/07/2007 15:11:06 I have two questions. 1) Why can't you blow them up ? Seriously why not, ok you can take them over but why is permantly removing them not allowed? 2) How long is it going to be before the big alliances have outposts in all the space they own and blocking every entry point to 0.0 with cyno jammers ? It's not going to be much fun if everywhere you go theres an outpost.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:11:00 - [2] I believe several years from now, when outposts are common enough to be a limiting factor to 0.0 warfare, CCP will develop a new class of ship that is capable of destroying them. Like a super-dread that can only target outposts, but from anywhere in the system. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:20:00 - [3] I like it this way. It feels like expanding, making new factions and alliances to rival the larger ones.
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:27:00 - [4] Yes it must be fun, but there is no way they can be removed. Do you see how that just does not make sense. I understand how cool it is for people putting them up but it if players can build it why cant it be destroyed ?
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:33:00 - [5] because you may have 50pilots inside the outpost each with 10 ships, maybe a dozen corp offices with their millions of m3 of assets and stuff on the market in the outpost the factory slots etc. what happens to all of that stuff when the OP goes pop? theres just too much stuff in an outpost for it to be destroyed... plus theres no ships with guns big enough to destroy one.. the destructible upgrades are a step in the direction you want, but it will be a very very long time before outposts can be destroyed
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:48:00 - [6] I understand it would be a programmers nightmare to it all out I hope if thats the reason, CCP will find a way to deal with it. I think it would be good if you could damage an outpost so much pilots could not even dock untill a good deal of isk and time is spent to fix it.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Brox alDragoran I understand it would be a programmers nightmare to it all out I hope if thats the reason, CCP will find a way to deal with it. I think it would be good if you could damage an outpost so much pilots could not even dock untill a good deal of isk and time is spent to fix it. That would be kind of interesting...make an outpost too unstable to use until it's fixed as a stopgap between disabling services and blowing them up entirely. It wouldn't be TOO horrible to deal with an entire outpost being destroyed, just somewhat lagtacular from the database end of things. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:03:00 - [8] Also it just seems a little lame to have outpost changing hands at no real cost to anyone involved, obviously people lose ships etc in the fighting however i think losing an outpost should be a disatster not just a tempory set back untill you can get your alliance to muster enough people. Writing this makes me think of DS9 nothing worked when they first took it over and when they lost it they made damn sure nothing worked.
gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Torquemanda Corteaz what happens to all of that stuff when the OP goes pop? The same that happens when a POS with stuff in it goes pop. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.17 16:42:00 - [10] Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 17/07/2007 16:42:35 I agree that Outposts should be destroyable in some way...not just walking in, taking Sov and popping it, but having them there permanent with ever-expanding alliances is sooner or later going to cause serious issues. Concerning your last point, what do you mean losing an outpost doesnt have any real cost for people involved?
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.17 17:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Brox alDragoran on 17/07/2007 17:13:41 Originally by: Chewan Mesa Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 17/07/2007 16:42:35 I agree that Outposts should be destroyable in some way...not just walking in, taking Sov and popping it, but having them there permanent with ever-expanding alliances is sooner or later going to cause serious issues. Concerning your last point, what do you mean losing an outpost doesnt have any real cost for people involved? I will explain using an example. About 14 months ago I was in a roaming Est gang we jumped into an outpost system to kill someone and one of our more cunning members realised the owners had lost sovrienty (i dont know how) all we needed to do was to dish out some damage, get in and claim the out post as ours. We knew we had no chance of holding it but we decided to try for a laugh and to get some cool fraps of our outpost with our name on it. No one showed up to repel us and we achieved our goal. After the laughing trailed off we sat there tryinging to think of ways to take advantage of the situation and this is the issue, apart from messing with the clones there is nothing you can do. It would have been cool if we could have said " ok boys pay us úúúú or we will destroy the refinery, clone bay etc...". I think it would add an extra dimension to alliance warfare if when you take a staion you can wrek it so that in order to makje it work again after taking it back the owners have to haul xxx amounts of xxx and wait time for repairs to happen. As i understand it atm there is still not much you can do to an outpost. Er i hope that ramble attempt at an answer helps.
Thoric Frosthammer Fallen Angels Inc INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.17 17:18:00 - [12] There's no real percentage in putting up more outposts than you can defend. There's no percentage in putting up outposts that don't provide you an isk stream. As the useful places in 0.0 are pretty rare, that means as a practical matter, 0.0 isn't going to fill up with outposts anytime soon. On the other hand it would be nice if say, they invented regional sov, where you held a certain amount of systems in a region, and it allowed you to pick up outposts, or destroy them. There are more than a few outposts in 0.0 that weren't very well thought out when they were placed. More important issue with outposts imo, is that owners should be able to remove jump clones and ship people's hangars back to empire, thus ejecting people from their station. It would end the vast numbers of "i was blue once, but it was just so i could dock, leave a jump clone and manipulate your market" jerkoffs. Should just be able to hit a button, possibly pay a fee for interbus to haul the goods back to Yulai or something, and the guy can just pick up his stuff there. Good way to prevent incidents when a corporation moves out of an alliance too.
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.17 17:31:00 - [13] Because it'd discourage people from moving to 0.0 and there's enough people in empire as it is. Note that I personally would like to be able to destroy outposts, I'm just pointing out why I don't think it's going to happen. ____ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.17 17:56:00 - [14] Why should it be possible to destroy them? If you want something to change, you have to give a little more of an argument than "why shouldn't it be this way?" Right now it seems pretty clear CCP wants 0.0 to be colonized by alliances carving out little (or large) empires out here. The number of stations you have in 0.0 are still extremely few compared to what you have in empire space. So, what's the problem? ------------------
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Hannobaal Why should it be possible to destroy them? If you want something to change, you have to give a little more of an argument than "why shouldn't it be this way?" Right now it seems pretty clear CCP wants 0.0 to be colonized by alliances carving out little (or large) empires out here. The number of stations you have in 0.0 are still extremely few compared to what you have in empire space. So, what's the problem? Did you read his posts at all? He gives plenty or reasons why they should be destroyable, or why it might cause problems or already does atm cause they are not.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:03:00 - [16] Outposts can't be removed yet because it would slow down the build up of 0.0 space. Everyone wants to speed that up instead of slowing it down. Placing an outpost in a choke point system is a very dangerous thing for an alliance to do. If your enemies take it over it cuts you off from empire and gives them a great vantage point to stage other attacks. The only alliances that would do so already have a lock on those systems anyway. "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: Hannobaal Why should it be possible to destroy them? If you want something to change, you have to give a little more of an argument than "why shouldn't it be this way?" Right now it seems pretty clear CCP wants 0.0 to be colonized by alliances carving out little (or large) empires out here. The number of stations you have in 0.0 are still extremely few compared to what you have in empire space. So, what's the problem? Did you read his posts at all? He gives plenty or reasons why they should be destroyable, or why it might cause problems or already does atm cause they are not. What? That one day there might be a very large number of them? So? ------------------
Qalten Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:47:00 - [18] I predict that eventually as 0.0 fills up that... 1) Alliances will be able to build multiple outposts in one system with the appropriate sov. beforehand 2) They will implement some method of either destroying an outpost or damaging it severely. Maybe a Titan module called "Death Star Laser" :P Speculation is fun! ~
picchiatello	Posted - 2007.07.17 19:30:00 - [19] ehm? what wrong how work now? if hostile claim system -costell they take outpost.. so owner need make POS warfare / sov for take it back... hostile can shoot at medical bay -at refining bay,at fitting bay etc.... and for repair you need many ship out of outpost for repair it ( and need time )... so what wrong with it???? why you want destroy it? conquerable way like is now work perfect.
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.18 09:49:00 - [20] The problem is that every part of 0.0 needs to be accessd from empire space and to get into deep 0.0 where isk is to be made you will need to travel through at least 1 choke point. Already in the north a considerable number of those choke points are now outpost systems. From the owners point of view thats a good thing becvause you can lock down an area and keep eveyone you consider to be bad out. Looking at the bigger picture you realise that no hostiles or competitors = no fun, except the fun of sitting on your isk and laughing, wich i suppose is good for a while but tbh i need more from a game than that. Why fight to the death to protect your out post from an enmy assult when losing it means you just have to wait for your alliance to get enough people togher to take it back? ok you lose face but the outpost is still there and youve not really been set back too much. IF outposts could be destroyed, IF there was a self destruct button that you needed to hold the station for a week to active, then outpost would be worth fighting and dieing for.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:01:00 - [21] I wouldn't mind the ability to blow up an outpost. I'd make it so that you require to hold an outpost for say 30 days, then you can set it to selfdestruct with a 1 hour timer. That also gives defenders the option to deny an attacker the outpost by just blowing it up instead. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:19:00 - [22] How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Brox alDragoran The problem is that every part of 0.0 needs to be accessd from empire space and to get into deep 0.0 where isk is to be made you will need to travel through at least 1 choke point. Already in the north a considerable number of those choke points are now outpost systems. From the owners point of view thats a good thing becvause you can lock down an area and keep eveyone you consider to be bad out. Looking at the bigger picture you realise that no hostiles or competitors = no fun, except the fun of sitting on your isk and laughing, wich i suppose is good for a while but tbh i need more from a game than that. Why fight to the death to protect your out post from an enmy assult when losing it means you just have to wait for your alliance to get enough people togher to take it back? ok you lose face but the outpost is still there and youve not really been set back too much. IF outposts could be destroyed, IF there was a self destruct button that you needed to hold the station for a week to active, then outpost would be worth fighting and dieing for. The "problem" you're pointing to is alliances preventing outsiders from entering their space, and I don't see how that is related to outposts except that (as convenient bases) they make rallying defense gangs in a certain area easier, but you don't necessarily need an outpost for that. Also, the number of enemies you will have to fight as an 0.0 alliance doesn't really seem to be the issue here, since you're talking more about lone players going to rat in deep 0.0. I think it's pretty clear CCP wants 0.0 to be colonized by players, not have it remain a wasteland. That means lots of stations. In empire almost all systems have stations and many have several. Anywhere in 0.0, you have to travel many jumps to get from station to station. If anything, there's really way, way too few outposts right now. ------------------
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Brox alDragoran How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button. If you capture an outpost, why would you want to destroy it? Those things are very expensive to set up. ------------------
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Brox alDragoran How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button. If you capture an outpost, why would you want to destroy it? Those things are very expensive to set up. Its expensive for whoever set it up, not for you if you conquer it. And if you'd conquer it merely for the purpose of blowing it up and hurting your enemy...
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Brox alDragoran How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button. If you capture an outpost, why would you want to destroy it? Those things are very expensive to set up. If you dont understand the valuse of destroying billions of your opponents assets I'm not sure i can help you. Sometimes you can take somthing but not work it yourslef because it is beyond your capabilities to run, so rather than just leave and give it back to your enmie, you destroy it. Also, some of us like to play this game as "bad guys" we do naughty things and sometimes VERY anughty things. It would be nice if there was a way for those of us who like things lawles to fight back against the expansion of empire style space.
Brox alDragoran Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:31:00 - [27] Edited by: Brox alDragoran on 18/07/2007 10:32:02 Edited by: Brox alDragoran on 18/07/2007 10:31:34 Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Brox alDragoran How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button. If you capture an outpost, why would you want to destroy it? Those things are very expensive to set up. Its expensive for whoever set it up, not for you if you conquer it. And if you'd conquer it merely for the purpose of blowing it up and hurting your enemy... You see, Triumvirate understand the value of jabbing a finger in the eye of the enmy.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Brox alDragoran Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Brox alDragoran How much fun would that be, holding your sworn enmies pos for x days, fighting wave after wave of attacks and then laughing as you push the big red button. If you capture an outpost, why would you want to destroy it? Those things are very expensive to set up. If you dont understand the valuse of destroying billions of your opponents assets I'm not sure i can help you. I understand the value of doing that. Do you understand the value of owning an outpost? Even if you don't want to hold it (for whatever reason) you can always sell it back to the original owners or to someone else for a hefty price. ------------------
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:38:00 - [29] This may (probably) be an urban rumour, so the validility of it is in question but... In the early days of EVE, Stations (no Outposts in those days) and Stargates where destroyable this lead to a) players logging in and finding the station they had logged off in was no more (I won't even speculate as to what did happen when they logged in) b) players being completly cut off from the rest of the Eveverse. This was before my time, so I can't vouch for the truth in it. Originally by: Steini OFSI The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 18/07/2007 10:41:02 Don't confuse Value with Cost of setting up. Of course it costs a definit amount of Isk and manhours to set up. However the "value" varies greatly for whoever owns it and how much they need it. Hence the last post I made...

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