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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 07:44:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Sadly this is the case.
I've recently tried putting 7 OD tracking links on a lachesis putting a curator in bay and trying to hit a jettisoned can from 100k
in theory a curator with 7 non stacking nerfed OD tracking links should have about 120k optimal. If there is a stacking nerf however, the optimal drops down to 65k. The fall off is 10k in both cases
After shooting at the jet can for 5 minutes I haven't even scored a single hit on the canister.
I know canisters have small sig, but I'd expect a single hit in 5 minutes. No hits at all means:
They ARE stacking nerfed :(
It was too good to be true if they were not stacking nerfed. With correct setup domi +rigs+bouncerII's could get 430dps with 160k optimal 35k falloff and 177k locking range.
Did you bug-report it?
The patch notes a couple patches ago said all rigs and modules that had a stacking nerf applied had had their descriptions updated accordingly. If something is stacking nerfed without the description indicating this to be the case, it's a bug.
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Heat Warfare |
Kirtan Loor
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Did you bug-report it?
The patch notes a couple patches ago said all rigs and modules that had a stacking nerf applied had had their descriptions updated accordingly. If something is stacking nerfed without the description indicating this to be the case, it's a bug.
You sir, just have given me hope :)
I'll try it again against an ordinary target. If that's the case I'll bug report it faster than a overheated crow pilot on boosters |
Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Originally by: Santa Anna
Did you bug-report it?
The patch notes a couple patches ago said all rigs and modules that had a stacking nerf applied had had their descriptions updated accordingly. If something is stacking nerfed without the description indicating this to be the case, it's a bug.
You sir, just have given me hope :)
I'll try it again against an ordinary target. If that's the case I'll bug report it faster than a overheated crow pilot on boosters
The bug may be with the description rather than the mod, sadly.
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Heat Warfare |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:25:00 -
[34]
Vexor: 4 T2 200mm rails, 1 T2 sensor boost, 2 omnidirectional tracking links, 1 t2 MAR, 1 T2 EANM, 1 T2 DC, 1 PDS, 3 Bouncer: 320 dps up to 60 km, 240 dps up to 72km optimal + 35km falloff
only an average tank and its cap isnt that nice.. but well its BAMM
just in case it has been overlooked due to edit ^^
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Captain Crimson
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:32:00 -
[35]
Benn, we don't want another 'reduce drone bay size' thread.
T2 sentry drones do more damage than heavies apparently.... can someone check this?
Originally by: Tuxford
I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Captain Crimson
Benn, we don't want another 'reduce drone bay size' thread.
T2 sentry drones do more damage than heavies apparently.... can someone check this?
Its more a put "stacking nerf on drone range, so it doesnt give gallente droneboats a built-in sniping function"-comment.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 09:12:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Captain Crimson
Benn, we don't want another 'reduce drone bay size' thread.
T2 sentry drones do more damage than heavies apparently.... can someone check this?
T2 heavies fire every 2 seconds for 24 damage but receive the bonus from the spec skill (so an extra 1.08 or 1.1 multiple to the damage mod). T2 sentries fire every 4 seconds for 50 damage but do not receive the spec bonus. If you can use ogre 2's, they should do at least 3% more damage than the sentries.
The sentries have a better alpha, but a worse sig res. They also have a bigger sig radius and are slower. (harhar)
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Heat Warfare |
Kirtan Loor
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.07.19 10:56:00 -
[38]
t2 curators and t2 bouncers outdamage their heavy conterparts.
t2 wardens are nearly %30 outdps'ed by t2 wasps, but have the best range.
t2 gardes are slightly out dps'ed by t2 heavies.
...and final touch is: sentries have damage rigs heavies dont.
So..with correct setup it is possible to reach high numbers on paper. But drone sniping is a dangerous business. You have to stay with your drones if you don't want to lose them. This can be done by either standing still, or orbitting your drones at 500m. On both cases you'll be not aligned for instawarping away.
Current state of Drone UI is also very prohibiting. The lag slow down your response time with drones. you have to lock a target, select your drones outside wait for the menu to open and click engage. There is no f1->f8 in this case. Deploying them causes additional lag and wait.
In short drone sniping is a nice dream for the present state of the game. |
Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence
Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.19 11:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kirtan Loor
So..with correct setup it is possible to reach high numbers on paper. But drone sniping is a dangerous business. You have to stay with your drones if you don't want to lose them. This can be done by either standing still, or orbitting your drones at 500m. On both cases you'll be not aligned for instawarping away.
Current state of Drone UI is also very prohibiting. The lag slow down your response time with drones. you have to lock a target, select your drones outside wait for the menu to open and click engage. There is no f1->f8 in this case. Deploying them causes additional lag and wait.
In short drone sniping is a nice dream for the present state of the game.
I agree that drone sniping isn't all that in terms of PvP or in a dedicated ship, but it does give the ability to fit a ship with a vastly different range than usually expected and that is very nice. It is good to be able to switch things up when your enemy is far more skilled than you and can switch up entire ships to compensate for the weaknesses in your usual setup. I don't see myself soloing other BSes with it, but in gang combat it can definitely be useful.
But I must say, sentries shine the most in PvE. First, they do a fine job of knocking down the number of enemies before they get in range. I love them for killing jammers before they get in range. Plus there's an added bonus you don't hear about too often: since they don't fly out to range, they don't draw aggro from nearby groups. For me that's worth the price of admission. Now I can poke at a group with my aggro pulling gun (just a small), launch the sentries, mow through what I can, and once it becomes ineffective, I pull them in and switch to the right ones for what's left. This way the enemies have usually come in close enough that I don't have to worry about my regular drones waking up everyone else. Plus the damage mitigation from knocking out enemies on the way in makes my tank work MUCH better. :)
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 12:05:00 -
[40]
One of the good things about sentries in pvp is, if you space them out (so you have a prepared position, or can live long enough to set one up), you'll make it very hard to speed tank against you. Gardes in (say) a 20km radius ring around a gate and an omnidirecitonal tracking link or two in your ship should make it very hard to maintain a high enough transverse against all the sentries all the time, allowing some number of clean hits and eventually running the speed ship away.
(note -- I haven't played around with them much in pvp at this point as my drone-heavy char started as a hardcore industrial pilot and doesn't have all of the necessary toys for pvp just yet.)
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Heat Warfare |
Cleric JohnPreston
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Posted - 2007.07.19 14:56:00 -
[41]
let me tell you what happen to my main 2 days ago.
My mate was blobbed in a belt in his tempest with 8 ships, some bs, Bc and af and ceptors. he tanked the lot of 4 mins before i came in.
I warped in with my Domi, dropped the garde sentries at 40km and hit the primary target with a target painter. I then flew away from my drones leaving them to fight as i was aligned becasue i simply didnt expect my mate to last much longer. In the end, my garde ate his tank badly, it was soo close he had to warp out at 21% structure but not after the entire gang began firing on my sentrys to kill them.
Of course the main primary was the only ship to have a scramble point on and once he warped my mate warped out. Then an AF tackled me, so i scrammed him, 3 heavy nos on him and told what was left of my sentries to kill the vengence in 3 hits.
then warped. Dude, sentries are my fav drone with out a doubt.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.19 17:13:00 -
[42]
Yes they are can be used in a lot situations, they have high range, high damage (every senry guns is pretty much like a 425mm T2 Rail with 2-3 MFS), dont need any grid/cap and they even keep firing enemies when got dampend or jammed (just need a lock for a very short time).
I dont have much of a problem with that, just the possibility to make them usefull at ranges which are supposed to be for specialists should be reduced by stacking nerf the mods/rigs.
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Hinty
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Posted - 2007.07.19 18:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Originally by: Captain Crimson
Benn, we don't want another 'reduce drone bay size' thread.
T2 sentry drones do more damage than heavies apparently.... can someone check this?
Its more a put "stacking nerf on drone range, so it doesnt give gallente droneboats a built-in sniping function"-comment.
For those who fight with Lasers there is an option to fight at long ranges.
For those who fight with Projectiles there is an option to fight at long ranges.
For those who fight with Hybrids there is an option to fight at long ranges.
For those who fight with Missiles there is an option to fight at long ranges.
For those who fight with Drones there is curently an option to fight at long ranges.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 20:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Yes they are can be used in a lot situations, they have high range, high damage (every senry guns is pretty much like a 425mm T2 Rail with 2-3 MFS), dont need any grid/cap and they even keep firing enemies when got dampend or jammed (just need a lock for a very short time).
I dont have much of a problem with that, just the possibility to make them usefull at ranges which are supposed to be for specialists should be reduced by stacking nerf the mods/rigs.
Why are you opposed to long range drone specialists?
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Heat Warfare |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.19 20:50:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 19/07/2007 20:49:28
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Yes they are can be used in a lot situations, they have high range, high damage (every senry guns is pretty much like a 425mm T2 Rail with 2-3 MFS), dont need any grid/cap and they even keep firing enemies when got dampend or jammed (just need a lock for a very short time).
I dont have much of a problem with that, just the possibility to make them usefull at ranges which are supposed to be for specialists should be reduced by stacking nerf the mods/rigs.
Why are you opposed to long range drone specialists?
Because it takes away even more usefullness of caldari, gallente are PVP kings, they always point at caldari beeing good in PVE if you ask for a caldari pvp buff. But now they are at least as good as caldari with their sentry domis. Everyone cries about that there should be diversification in EVE, but more and more, gallente ships become the jackofallstreets... The have best close combat, best drones, best sniper, ... there has to be a moment where gallente shouldnt be the answer to all problems.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 21:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 19/07/2007 20:49:28
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Yes they are can be used in a lot situations, they have high range, high damage (every senry guns is pretty much like a 425mm T2 Rail with 2-3 MFS), dont need any grid/cap and they even keep firing enemies when got dampend or jammed (just need a lock for a very short time).
I dont have much of a problem with that, just the possibility to make them usefull at ranges which are supposed to be for specialists should be reduced by stacking nerf the mods/rigs.
Why are you opposed to long range drone specialists?
Because it takes away even more usefullness of caldari, gallente are PVP kings, they always point at caldari beeing good in PVE if you ask for a caldari pvp buff. But now they are at least as good as caldari with their sentry domis. Everyone cries about that there should be diversification in EVE, but more and more, gallente ships become the jackofallstreets... The have best close combat, best drones, best sniper, ... there has to be a moment where gallente shouldnt be the answer to all problems.
Gallente are the kings of afk pve and have been for as long as I've played the game. Their tanks permarun and their drones don't require any user intervention to use. I'm grinding up standings with minmatar with a gallente alt and he has to do something other than warp in and deploy drones in maybe 20% of missions.
As for best sniper, the Mega will outrange the sniper domi with or without stacking penalties on the omnidirectional tracking comps. Sentry drones require significant specialization to be practical outside of cruiser sniping ranges. Just because the same ship can be good at long range and short range (mega, geddon, tempest) doesn't mean that the same user can be good at both without refitting imbetween. A hypothetical sniper domi would be a very poor short range drone boat if he used more than 1 drone tracking mod/rig.
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Heat Warfare |
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.19 21:12:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Santa Anna
A hypothetical sniper domi would be a very poor short range drone boat if he used more than 1 drone tracking mod/rig.
I cant follow you in this point, you might not have much tackle on your boat, but you still can deploy heavy drones and nos without any problems.
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Santa Anna
Caldari
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Originally by: Santa Anna
A hypothetical sniper domi would be a very poor short range drone boat if he used more than 1 drone tracking mod/rig.
I cant follow you in this point, you might not have much tackle on your boat, but you still can deploy heavy drones and nos without any problems.
Nos domi without MWD/web/scram isn't a very good pvp ship. Nos domis are very strong 1v1. When you get to 2v2 against competent pilots in similar ships, Nos domis start to have problems because focus fire can beat any tank. If you don't fit a point, you're in a gang (probably at least a medium one) and there are many ships better than a nos domi. If you don't fit a web your target will web you and get to the gate/out of nos range if he has mwd and injector too. If you don't fit mwd you'll have a lot of trouble getting into range to use your nos.
If you're sniping, you're also probably using a buffer tank rather than an active tank. If you plan on staying stationary rather than aligning, you'll need istabs in the lows, too. An effective sniper specialist domi would be very different from a Nos domi.
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CPU Love |
Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:50:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Shiken Kan on 19/07/2007 22:51:39
the maximum range you can get with sentries is 200km controlrange with 186km optimal (warden 2) and 213km targeting range.
that works only with a domi and you need maxed skills and you loose all hi and mid and rigslots to do so. (so no omg they got a damage rig)
all in all that is a very specialized ship and not worth a penny in close combat as you simply can't ab/mwd nos or really tank for long. it also won't deal more damage then a rokh for example and thus there's absolutely no point in complaining, especially as such a ship is rather skill intensive.
as to the op 
sentries are great for controlling aggro when you normally couldn't tank the rats. they easily can tank 1 bs and when attacked by more you have an instant full shield reg by scooping them. problem is when the rats get too close they don't hit anything, so you need some other drones or mebbe rails in the his to deal with frigs or drones. target signature on the other hand isn't a problem, i instapopped some 20ish small ratdrones from about 50km with wardens.
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Zenst
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.19 23:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
I can imagine, thats why the omnidirectional tracking link and the drone scope rig need to be stacking nerfed, to prevent outsniping long range ships with sentries.
Sadly this is the case.
I've recently tried putting 7 OD tracking links on a lachesis putting a curator in bay and trying to hit a jettisoned can from 100k
in theory a curator with 7 non stacking nerfed OD tracking links should have about 120k optimal. If there is a stacking nerf however, the optimal drops down to 65k. The fall off is 10k in both cases
After shooting at the jet can for 5 minutes I haven't even scored a single hit on the canister.
I know canisters have small sig, but I'd expect a single hit in 5 minutes. No hits at all means:
They ARE stacking nerfed :(
It was too good to be true if they were not stacking nerfed. With correct setup domi +rigs+bouncerII's could get 430dps with 160k optimal 35k falloff and 177k locking range.
try dropping a tracking link for a painter, you will have better luck, and i mean luck :)
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Zenst
Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
I can imagine, thats why the omnidirectional tracking link and the drone scope rig need to be stacking nerfed, to prevent outsniping long range ships with sentries.
Sadly this is the case.
I've recently tried putting 7 OD tracking links on a lachesis putting a curator in bay and trying to hit a jettisoned can from 100k
in theory a curator with 7 non stacking nerfed OD tracking links should have about 120k optimal. If there is a stacking nerf however, the optimal drops down to 65k. The fall off is 10k in both cases
After shooting at the jet can for 5 minutes I haven't even scored a single hit on the canister.
I know canisters have small sig, but I'd expect a single hit in 5 minutes. No hits at all means:
They ARE stacking nerfed :(
It was too good to be true if they were not stacking nerfed. With correct setup domi +rigs+bouncerII's could get 430dps with 160k optimal 35k falloff and 177k locking range.
try dropping a tracking link for a painter, you will have better luck, and i mean luck :)
Hm which radius do jet cans have? i always thought it would be 1km?
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