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Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.20 18:31:00 - [31] I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but you could always try HEAVY BEAMS
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:04:00 - [32] Zealot just doesn't compete with the Harbinger's dps in most cases. Sniping with beams is the only "role" I see the Zealot fit in. The only advantage it has over a Geddon is better tracking and more maneuverable (for roaming gangs). Honestly CCP, just give it another turret. There's no reason for me to fly a Zealot over a Curse or Harbinger.
Hijara Amarr Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:14:00 - [33] the zealot isnt ment to take on BC's though. Yeah, if you want raw dps, go for a harbinger, but, the resists are great, and its a good maneurvwerable ship. I woudl never try to kill a bc with it. But, on a 1v1 agaist a crusier it will server you well. A snipe fitting is ok, but pulses are so much better for pvp.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:17:00 - [34] Originally by: Hijara the zealot isnt ment to take on BC's though. Yeah, if you want raw dps, go for a harbinger, but, the resists are great, and its a good maneurvwerable ship. I woudl never try to kill a bc with it. But, on a 1v1 agaist a crusier it will server you well. A snipe fitting is ok, but pulses are so much better for pvp. If that's the way you use it, why not use the much cheaper (and arguably more effective) Armageddon? I guess it's ok for popping frigs in a Pulse config. =/
Sammiel Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.20 21:33:00 - [35] Anti-support. A sniping armageddon tracks like crap against things that are cruiser size and below and moving, a zealot does not. Heavy beams track 2.4 times better than Tachyons and have a signature resolution that is 3.2 times smaller. That makes it much much easier to hit things that are moving. Harbinger can snipe too, but lacks the engagement range of a zealot. DEATHLEY > why dont u remain silent like prominent alliances like our band of brothers do
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.20 22:24:00 - [36] I fly them a lot - almost exclusively in BB and BC wings, they are fast and do very decent damage with both beam and pulse setups. As with most Amarr ships however, there are a few rules that you want to follow. Rule Number 1: If using beams, you must be in a large gang. This does not mean 2 or 3 people, this means gangs that have proper 'depth' to the fleet, where the 125k mark is good for your auroras and you are going to be targeting the tacklers going after your tacklers - not the big BBs which your Geddon/Abbadon/Apocs will be hitting. Rule Number 2: Never fit a MWD. I understand the desire for people to go fast, I understand the Vegabond-complex, I understand the desire to be in an oversize inti. But the Zelot can't take the 25% cap hit. You run a nano-setup, you are building an immitation Vegabond. . .just train the vegabond if thats what you want. The zelot is a heavy hitting hac. I will shread a Vegabond if it dares to come into range, and since both 220 Vulcan IIs and Heavy Pulse have about the same ranges. . .you can be sure that in a swap, you have a fair chance at killing a Vegabond. so, why kill that precious cap that is going to keep your repper running a bit longer, and your guns firing that much longer. Rule 3: Avoid Nos. This goes without saying. Its a fantastic ship if flown correctly. Problem with Amarr (and in many ways, Caldari) is that people try to either Minmify or Gallentify their ships. Amarr ships are gun-boats - you bring high DPS and high passive armor against their fast moving techniques - in EvE however, transversal is a shared value, so if you are missing, they are too. . . ----
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.20 22:40:00 - [37] I put MWDs on all my Amarr ships. In the era of bubble camps, I find that not doing so is daft.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.20 23:19:00 - [38] Yeah I agree. While it would be nice to save your cap for guns and whatnot an MWD is a 0.0 pvp necessity. Flying anything without one will get you killed the first time your gang jumps into a bubble. Everyone else mwd's out and starts killing tacklers. You slowboat out and kill tacklers then get primaried and pop. The slowest one out of a bubble is DEAD.
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.21 00:05:00 - [39] Edited by: Lore Isander on 21/07/2007 00:05:02 Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Lore Isander Fast, hard hitting Hac. Nano it with 3 Heat Sinks. I can permarun mwd with guns, repper and point. Goes roughly 3.5km/s. post setup? also how are your skills/implants? =) Actually I "lied" a bit but here is the fit I use: 4x HP II 1x Improved Cloak II (Dont ask why) 1x 10mn MWD II 1x Disruptor II 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Med Rep II 2x Heat Sink II 2x OD II 2x Cap Relay II 2x Polycarbon Implants: +3% Base Speed +5% All Turret Damage +5% Max Capacitor Capacity -5% Turret CPU Usage Skills are maxed out. Goes 3.5km/s (347*m/s to be exact) --- How do I shot web?
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 01:39:00 - [40] I understand the percived need for MWD in 0.0 situations, but I am also a firm beliver in knowing whats on the other side of the gate using scouts and whatnot. Call me old-fashioned, but if you can't bust the camp, then barring some absolute nessesity (like a POS siege that you need to defend or some tactical point you have to reach or some such) there is simply no reason to jump. . . Of course, as a member of PIE, 0.0 engadgments are almost always fought with a larger gang (with CVA, AM, and other 'Loyalists') and most of our operations are in defense of the Empire. But I do know that bubble camps are better to bust or circumvent. Also, as a Zelot, everything that would hold you down is in optimal - in a sniper or somesuch, I ccan see the need to warp in and out, but this is a cruiser, and you are rarely the first targeted. Of course, experiences differ. ----
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.21 01:42:00 - [41] Edited by: William Hamilton on 21/07/2007 01:42:58 100km/s Zealot!!!
Leo Balthur Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.22 04:29:00 - [42] so as usual (apart from recons) the zealot needs a very very tight role to fit in ;/ Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Red Harvest Originally by: VJ Maverick Best Fleet Commander? Hmm. it's a 3-way tie between Admiral Thrawn, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Akbar. Not even close! Admiral Thrawn i
Rod Hullandeemue Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb	Posted - 2007.07.22 10:33:00 - [43] Mine is an 80km+ range gank mobile.
Kather Evil Proctologists	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Leo Balthur so as usual (apart from recons) the zealot needs a very very tight role to fit in ;/ not really. if you use a fit like lore posted, you can add a nice bit of dps to a small roaming vaga gang if you dont fit a mwd, you can put a fairly big tank on it and still do decent damage if you whack beams on it, you can snipe at over 100km, with a stupid quick rof, getting rid of support nicely sure, the curse is possibly better for the first situation, but it doesnt do instant damage, which i prefer to be able to do. the second situation, yes, your probably better off with a harbinger, but a hac is still alot more nimble than a BC. i cant think of another ammar anti support sniper (if you really have to go solo pvp, then a tank zealot can be used for solo piracy, and i dare say the nano setup can aswell) --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
Cpt Lysander	Posted - 2007.07.22 13:33:00 - [45] In my opinion the Zealot definitly needs an mwd ( and a cap injector ) in order to avoid some of the faster battleships/battlecruisers ( which are almost always mwd equiped ). The ship has wether the tank nor the dps to compete with either of them in a straight fight unless the pilot manages to keep them at range, which requires an mwd.
Leo Balthur Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:29:00 - [46] imho the fitting of a zeaot should start off with: cap injector mwd 3x hs Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Red Harvest Originally by: VJ Maverick Best Fleet Commander? Hmm. it's a 3-way tie between Admiral Thrawn, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Akbar. Not even close! Admiral Thrawn i
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:43:00 - [47] Edited by: DarkElf on 23/07/2007 14:43:37 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Why Zealot when you already have cruiser 5 and a curse isn't too far away? Ever tried killing under sentries in a curse? doesn't work very well. DE
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:47:00 - [48] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld All those nice posts... but now compare it to a vagabond... huginn or a curse. Why Zealot when you already have cruiser 5 and a curse isn't too far away? Because Curse is boring wtfpwnmobile. Zealot is way more fun to fly. --- How do I shot web?
Leo Balthur Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:26:00 - [49] Edited by: Leo Balthur on 23/07/2007 19:27:15 Originally by: DarkElf Edited by: DarkElf on 23/07/2007 14:43:37 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Why Zealot when you already have cruiser 5 and a curse isn't too far away? Ever tried killing under sentries in a curse? doesn't work very well. DE @ theendofworld -> apparently you cant fly a curse, nos + damps are pwn, but it gets boring, really boring ;/ edit: and why do you discuss other ships in a thread called "zealot role?" ? trolling anyone ? Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Red Harvest Originally by: VJ Maverick Best Fleet Commander? Hmm. it's a 3-way tie between Admiral Thrawn, Mon Mothma, and Admiral Akbar. Not even close! Admiral Thrawn i
Danari Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:07:00 - [50] Zealot: Heavy pulses with scorch mwd/cap booster/ew 2 nano 2 overdrive hs medium repper energized adaptive nano Equipped like this, a zealot is able to sit at standoff ranges similar to an ishtar or curse and deliver good dps without having to worry so much about being webbed like vaga pilots do. I agree the curse overall is a better ship, but having a few good pilots able to liquify support is a role that is just as important as damping out the damage dealers or nossing primary's tank. And the noise about no mwd on a pvp ship is imo crazy. Getting called primary and being able to waste their time before they switch targets as you move off or warp away is absolutely huge.
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:15:00 - [51] A Zealot with Pulse's will get you final blow on many killmails tbh. It is really good at dealing damage, the problem is that you can't use MWD to get you close. Although I have seen a nano Zealot setup on test server, did okay with it but I don't think it's practical. New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:32:00 - [52] Edited by: Ruciza on 23/07/2007 22:32:46 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I understand the percived need for MWD in 0.0 situations, but I am also a firm beliver in knowing whats on the other side of the gate using scouts and whatnot. Call me old-fashioned, but if you can't bust the camp, then barring some absolute nessesity (like a POS siege that you need to defend or some tactical point you have to reach or some such) there is simply no reason to jump. . . Of course, as a member of PIE, 0.0 engadgments are almost always fought with a larger gang (with CVA, AM, and other 'Loyalists') and most of our operations are in defense of the Empire. But I do know that bubble camps are better to bust or circumvent. Also, as a Zelot, everything that would hold you down is in optimal - in a sniper or somesuch, I ccan see the need to warp in and out, but this is a cruiser, and you are rarely the first targeted. Of course, experiences differ. Heavens! There are people who know how to fly Amarr. And they are in an Amarr RP corp, which should come to no surprise. No Mwd on an Amarr ship as a general rule, no Minniefying, no Gallentifying, you're the man. Now tell me you fit tracking disruptors on Amarr non-EW ships, and I'll join PIE. Or rather my main.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Ruciza Heavens! There are people who know how to fly Amarr. And they are in an Amarr RP corp, which should come to no surprise. No Mwd on an Amarr ship as a general rule, no Minniefying, no Gallentifying, you're the man. Now tell me you fit tracking disruptors on Amarr non-EW ships, and I'll join PIE. Or rather my main. Wanna 1 vs 1?
Bentula	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:42:00 - [54] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld All those nice posts... but now compare it to a vagabond... huginn or a curse. Why Zealot when you already have cruiser 5 and a curse isn't too far away? Because they serve completly different purposes? Once you get bigger gangs and targets getting called primary die within seconds all your curse will be worth are 5 med drones and some EW, in other words fly a vexor instead. Zealot is a very awesome ship. Especially because it only has one job(direct fire support), and does that job well. Originally by: Tassi Well than I thought ... a drake can do the same and have a nice tank or dampeners ... First i wouldnt compare a sluggish BC to a very fast hac, might aswell counter that argument by saying that the raven will do the drakes job better. Second while i pretty much like a proper fitted drake, it still has quite a different purpose. Most obvious would be that it does instantanous damage vs delayed damage. Also a interceptor or vaga speeding at over 6km/s will laugh at your drake, while he very carefully has to watch transversial with a zealot. Also its a armortanker, which i vastly prefer over shieldtanks for pvp(only exception fleetbs). I know this doesnt sound like much but its all the reason why i prefer turret ships over missile ships. P.S. Also my feeling tells me that a zealot trying to kill intys, AFs, frigs, destroyers, dictors and ew cruisers(you get my drift) will do much better in a group situation than a drake. Also the zealot might be taken for a t1 cruiser in the heat of battle, while nobody will confuse a drake for what it is, only one step below BS.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I understand the percived need for MWD in 0.0 situations, but I am also a firm beliver in knowing whats on the other side of the gate using scouts and whatnot. Call me old-fashioned, but if you can't bust the camp, then barring some absolute nessesity (like a POS siege that you need to defend or some tactical point you have to reach or some such) there is simply no reason to jump. . . Of course, as a member of PIE, 0.0 engadgments are almost always fought with a larger gang (with CVA, AM, and other 'Loyalists') and most of our operations are in defense of the Empire. But I do know that bubble camps are better to bust or circumvent. Also, as a Zelot, everything that would hold you down is in optimal - in a sniper or somesuch, I ccan see the need to warp in and out, but this is a cruiser, and you are rarely the first targeted. Of course, experiences differ. Enemy dictor pilot warps to 0 on the gate you are sitting on and drops a bubble. Then he jumps through. Another enemy gang warps in at range on the gate you are sitting on and starts raping the **** out of you. You have 2 choices: 1 - MWD out of bubble, kill tacklers and warp out. 2 - Jump through, MWD out of bubble on other side, kill tacklers and warp out. Both of these choices REQUIRE an MWD to survive. This situation isn't extremely common but it has happened to us a couple of times in recent memory. Like I say any pvp fit ship in 0.0 without an MWD is dead the first time its gang goes up against a competant foe.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I understand the percived need for MWD in 0.0 situations, but I am also a firm beliver in knowing whats on the other side of the gate using scouts and whatnot. Call me old-fashioned, but if you can't bust the camp, then barring some absolute nessesity (like a POS siege that you need to defend or some tactical point you have to reach or some such) there is simply no reason to jump. . . Of course, as a member of PIE, 0.0 engadgments are almost always fought with a larger gang (with CVA, AM, and other 'Loyalists') and most of our operations are in defense of the Empire. But I do know that bubble camps are better to bust or circumvent. Also, as a Zelot, everything that would hold you down is in optimal - in a sniper or somesuch, I ccan see the need to warp in and out, but this is a cruiser, and you are rarely the first targeted. Of course, experiences differ. Enemy dictor pilot warps to 0 on the gate you are sitting on and drops a bubble. Then he jumps through. Another enemy gang warps in at range on the gate you are sitting on and starts raping the **** out of you. You have 2 choices: 1 - MWD out of bubble, kill tacklers and warp out. 2 - Jump through, MWD out of bubble on other side, kill tacklers and warp out. Both of these choices REQUIRE an MWD to survive. This situation isn't extremely common but it has happened to us a couple of times in recent memory. Like I say any pvp fit ship in 0.0 without an MWD is dead the first time its gang goes up against a competant foe. QFMFT. Our gang got ambushed by outbreak in Curse. Who died? The suckers that hadn't fit a MWD.
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:32:00 - [57] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Who died? The suckers that hadn't fit a MWD. So you let your mates behind to die and are proud of that or what? And are now blaming them? If that were my corp, you would now look at your assets from the outside. I know I know, that mindset is all too common.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.24 00:00:00 - [58] Originally by: Ruciza Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Who died? The suckers that hadn't fit a MWD. So you let your mates behind to die and are proud of that or what? And are now blaming them? If that were my corp, you would now look at your assets from the outside. I know I know, that mindset is all too common. You don't PvP much, do you?
Bentula	Posted - 2007.07.24 07:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Ruciza Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Who died? The suckers that hadn't fit a MWD. So you let your mates behind to die and are proud of that or what? And are now blaming them? If that were my corp, you would now look at your assets from the outside. I know I know, that mindset is all too common. Yeah thats a great idea, if we fight people who have bigger gangs lets kick everyone that has half a brain and any idea how to fit a ship in 0.0, im sure that will improve our chances the next time we meet them. Btw, dieing like lemmings ftw. Its sooo yesterday to warp out and limit your losses, lets just all die every time we get ambushed and have some suckers without mwd with us. That was sarcasm in case you didnt notice. There is no reason to sacrifice people and fight a hopeless fight just to protect others that are to lazy or dumb to fit mwd. Hit and run tactics kinda imply that you have to be fast at times, and these days you might have to use hit and run tactics even if you have a 100mna BS fleet blob. P.S.: 1. If getting chased that interdictor will arrive at the next gate before your BS sooner or later, it will jump through and bubble it. 2. If chasing people with half a brain they will lay a dictor bubble 100km from destination gate after their ships entered warp. Have fun crawling out of that without mwd. 3. Not all large warp bubbles you encounter are necessarily hostile, have fun cruising 54km to the gate in a BS without a mwd. Last person i saw trying that got kicked from gang and told to go home, you cant really expect allies to take down a bubble for you or have your gang <who all have a mwd> wait 10 mins while you slowboat to the gate. 4. Fleetbattles progress. What started as a 150km brawl might very well progress into you trying to shoot targets at 180km as the hostile and your gang space out. Without a mwd it will be hard to get into optimal range for the called primarys fast.
Chavu Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:27:00 - [60] Originally by: Eiskalt I did not say the Vaga is king of damage? I just said EVEN a Vaga does more RAW dps, which is true. Why does EVERYONE forget about drones? Every time they just watch the turrets and say "look! look!" So just fyi: Vaga with 5* 220mm + 2 Gyro + Barrage + 5 Hobgobs = 412 dps with my skills. So without using the launcher slot and without using the biggest guns and without using close range ammo. With Hail its 499 dps. 549 with 3 Gyros. 572 with 425mm (ok you generally don¦t use that)... I don¦t count in a missile launcher as my skills suck and I am too lazy to edit everything. Zealot with 3 HP II + 3 HS + Scorch is 298 dps. 379 with conflag. With 3 HS it¦s 335 with scorch and 426 with conflag. So with 3 HS and Conflag you do roughly the same RAW dps as a Vaga with 2 Gyro and Barrage, with drones of course! Of course a Vaga loses damage because of falloff (though a Zealot loses some because of tracking as well). Didn¦t say anything against that. Oh and for those "NOT solo!!!!!"-yellers. I did not mean solo alone. You get targeted while in a gang as well you know? Or do we talk about those 10 vs 1 gangs? Hell you can fly a Merlin there as well then, doesn¦t matter. Beams might be funny on a Zealot against small targets. Though the damage is still not really impressive (enough for small non tanked ships of course). Hell even a passive tanked drake does that kind of damage... or more. And you could just use a vaga to catch small ships as well. And so on... I do not say the Zealot sucks. But it is NEITHER a "high-damage dealer" NOR a very good nano ship compared to the other ones. Points taken. Yeah I did forget drones. I didn't add in launchers & drones because the people I know fly with ecm lights and a NOS. I would say the Zealot goes a bit slower than the Ishtar, but not too far behind. Zealot gets more base speed but Ishtar gets less mass IIRC. Of course it can't speed tank and shoot, but neither can the vaga and a nano-ishtar doesn't want to go in close for a drone swoop so all of the nanohacs have problems. I would say that a nano-zealot is a good decent damage range ship and it's EM damage lasers are hot stuff shooting the right ratters. Curse is the disabler, Zealot is the decent damage ranged ship, Amarr didn't get screwed in the hac/recon department. I wouldn't be opposed to giving the Zealot some more PG and some drones. With 2x HS IIs and a 5 slot armor tank, could be nasty with some much needed cap usage tweaking to amarr. Good point about the Drake. Heck yes it is very unbalanced ship in my book. At least vs the myrm you can go for range, but vs a drake you have to ewar it and then get some friends to beat on it for a bit. I think the point is that the Zealot doesn't scream "OMG FUN!" like the Vaga, ishtar, deimos, or cerb (cerb sounds fun to me)

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