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Damage Control II, what am I missing?

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Ryum852	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:16:00 - [1] It seems to add so much, and for only 1 eng every 30 secs.. Yet I rarely see it in the builds I read. It would seem to me this would be a must have in just bout any ship that could fit it. Unless I am missing something vital, bout this mod or something much better is out there and I don't know what it is.
Andre Ricard Gallente Templars of Space Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:27:00 - [2] I have one on 99% of my setups
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:29:00 - [3] Yeah its a very useful mod, with no stacking penalty either. Probably the reason you don't see them in the setups you read is because most people on this forum have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:32:00 - [4] Speed fits and shield tanks can usually bipass it, though why someone would not fit one on an armour tank is beyond me.
Corwain Gallente Kamite	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:36:00 - [5] Nearly every armor tanked BS stives to fit 2x EANMII+DCII Was basically the whole thing behind the Megathron fitting issues thread murder one posted a while back. -- A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain
Ryum852	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:42:00 - [6] What would be the point in putting a second dmg ctrl in? I thought only one could run at a time
Jei'son Bladesmith Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Ryum852 What would be the point in putting a second dmg ctrl in? I thought only one could run at a time He meant two EANMs and a DCII, and yes, you can only run one at a time *☼☼☼ Don't even THINK about it rookie...I have all my capacitor and more hit points than you can POSSIBLY imagine. ☼☼☼*
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:49:00 - [8] Originally by: Ryum852 What would be the point in putting a second dmg ctrl in? I thought only one could run at a time 2 EANMII's and 1 DCII order of operations, man. NBALT Recruitment
Ryum852	Posted - 2007.07.22 06:42:00 - [9] was commenting on the "lack of stacking penalty" hehe thanks for the info
Msobe	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:02:00 - [10] When they say it doesn't suffer stacking penalty, that means it stacks without penalty with other mods that give resists . .. hardener, eanms, etc. Which is a damn cool thing about them. Course it can't stack with itself, since you can only have one.
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups i heard dark shikari fits one one his shuttles to make it tank well Originally by: Illyria Ambri No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like frog clearing throat "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"
Ryum852	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Msobe When they say it doesn't suffer stacking penalty, that means it stacks without penalty with other mods that give resists . .. hardener, eanms, etc. Which is a damn cool thing about them. Course it can't stack with itself, since you can only have one. thanks for explaing that nuance of how resist work I had no idea. so a dmg ctrl + inuln field would stack together fully? Seems to be the best all-round mod to go with this universal resist mod
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:41:00 - [13] I'm pretty sure it does get stacking penalties like any other module when it comes to resists. ------------------
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:50:00 - [14] Edited by: Akita T on 22/07/2007 07:53:17 Originally by: Hannobaal I'm pretty sure it does get stacking penalties like any other module when it comes to resists. You must have never used DCs then, it seems. Everybody who actually uses them knows they're exempt from (resist) stack-nerfs. Originally by: Ryum852 thanks for explaing that nuance of how resist work I had no idea. so a dmg ctrl + inuln field would stack together fully? Seems to be the best all-round mod to go with this universal resist mod If you're only looking at resists and nothing else (like, for instance, on builds that rely on remote repairing, or on builds that rely on massive hitpoints instead of repair rate), yes, indeed, a DC is a must-have, even for shield tankers. However, if you take into acount everything, overall, you're usually better off with either an extra PDU/SPR than a DC on shield-tanking ships. Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Lore Isander Caldari Paisti	Posted - 2007.07.22 10:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This --- How do I shot web?
Ask Unbeatable Gallente HighTech Marines Ltd. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Speed fits and shield tanks can usually bipass it, though why someone would not fit one on an armour tank is beyond me. They are specially usefull for shield tankers.Since they are a low slot module that increased a tank based on mid slots. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Lunara Yoshi Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:15:00 - [18] The thing is you need to remember that a damage control gives the lowest resistance increases for any skilled tanker BUT it gives the 50+% res on hull. Now most frigates don't even care about a tank and would rather fit a good passive mod or more speed/plate/dmg mod. For anything bigger and not speed tanked it should be standard issue usually unless you're very specced (that 99% thing comes close )
Rossarian	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:17:00 - [19] I know people who don't fit them either. The problem is usually that these people do not understand the concept of effective hitpoints, or don't realize what stacking penalty does to EANMs (You would not believe how many people also think that active and passive hardeners are not stacking nerfed together... ). I tried to educate them. Some are responsive, but with some it is like talking to a brick wall so I stopped bothering.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Speed fits and shield tanks can usually bipass it, though why someone would not fit one on an armour tank is beyond me. They are specially usefull for shield tankers.Since they are a low slot module that increased a tank based on mid slots. qtf, low slot modules supporting shieldtanks = win. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Santa Anna on 22/07/2007 11:32:30 Originally by: Rossarian I know people who don't fit them either. The problem is usually that these people do not understand the concept of effective hitpoints, or don't realize what stacking penalty does to EANMs (You would not believe how many people also think that active and passive hardeners are not stacking nerfed together... ). I tried to educate them. Some are responsive, but with some it is like talking to a brick wall so I stopped bothering. Saved my 'Cane today against a nos/neut 'Phoon on a gate after I accidentally activated a remote rep and got flagged for aiding a criminal. _____ CPU Love
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:12:00 - [22] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 22/07/2007 12:12:00 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Speed fits and shield tanks can usually bipass it, though why someone would not fit one on an armour tank is beyond me. They are specially usefull for shield tankers.Since they are a low slot module that increased a tank based on mid slots. qtf, low slot modules supporting shieldtanks = win. I know, and I agree. All my shield tanked ships have a DC. But quite a few pilots don't fit one because of a number of different reasons.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.22 13:30:00 - [23] In case of an active shield tanker, in case you already have a perma-tank (that also applies to perma-tank attempts under enemy incoming NOS), indeed, a DC is advisable. Same if you use injectors, again, a DC is advisable. However, if you are pretty far from an active perma-tank, the farther away you are, the less useful a DC is compared to, say, a PDU for instance. Reason is simple... a T2 DC gives you a flat -12.5% reduction to damage dealt to shields, in other words you tank aproximately +14.2857% damage. Now, adding a PDU-II for instance adds not only +14.754% to capacitor recharge rate (and hence the same percentage of tankable damage), but also the same percentage of boost to the shield recharge rate... overall, you tank at least 15% more damage in the long run, probably more. If you're a passive shield tanker, a single SPR-II (or Beta Reactor SPR) will increase your tankable damage by more than 31.5%, which is quite clearly MUCH better as a DC. In the end, unless you're subjected to massive amounts of incoming DPS above your tank level, it is usually better even after you take the other resists granted by the DC into account. Basically, AS A SHIELD TANKER, you want to have a DC every time you know you're in grave danger of dying before you can exhaust your capacitor reserves (i.e. heavy incoming DPS)... and you never want a DC when you know the incoming DPS is roughly the same order of magnitude as your tank. Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Elhina Novae Amarr Ranyhyn	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:53:00 - [24] Sure EANM is good... But when you use 2x EANM2 there isno point in using a third since a DCII would help more since it doesn't suffer the stacking penalties Somebody set up us the bomb
Stakhanov kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.22 16:27:00 - [25] DC is the most useful module for gallente ships (thanks to our uber structure) especially in PvP where the hitpoint buffer matters the most. If you have only one resist slot , an EANM is better if you're active tanking , or have lots of plates. Of course , DC isn't as useful if you have a nano setup.
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That And the Other ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:10:00 - [27] Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That Those DE
Murehz	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:11:00 - [28] These Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That Those
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:19:00 - [29] Originally by: xHalcyonx Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That And the Other I miss Seinfeld
lyrenna Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:20:00 - [30] Edited by: lyrenna on 22/07/2007 17:19:44 dc II is like a holy symbol, luck charm, amulet for me especialy in pvp its protect you from overlook. === when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten. ===
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Akita T Basically, AS A SHIELD TANKER, you want to have a DC every time you know you're in grave danger of dying before you can exhaust your capacitor reserves (i.e. heavy incoming DPS)... and you never want a DC when you know the incoming DPS is roughly the same order of magnitude as your tank. Which is why any non-frigate fleet ship with a spare low-slot after fitting guns should always fit a DC rather than any other module. When damage comes (if it comes), it's not going to come in sustainable amounts. And when it comes to effective hitpoints no other module comes even close to adding the amount of effective hitpoints that a DC does (other than perhaps oversized plates/shield extenders if your resists are good, but those come at a higher price in terms of grid/cpu and other penalties). Often the difference between "oh **** I'm pwnd" and "whew I managed to warp out", or at least buying your fleet a few more precious seconds before the enemy starts to shoot on the next ship in line. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:38:00 - [32] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 22/07/2007 18:39:00 long time ago DCs were totally useless mods and nobody used them, I don't even remember what they did. so once upon a time CCP decided to boost a few underused mods, including DCs. most of those mods were still useless but DCs and the inertial stabs, raised in price by orders or magnitude. inertial stabs were later nerfed but DCs are still not... oh well lots of people whined about old new inertia stabs, but i don't see anyone whining about DC yet, except for this :)
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Ask Unbeatable Originally by: Lore Isander Originally by: Andre Ricard I have one on 99% of my setups This That These - Michael Schumacher won many a formula one race. Alot of the time he didn't win because he had a better car...he won because HE WAS A BETTER DRIVER and because he used SUPERIOR TACTICS.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:11:00 - [34] Originally by: Akita T In case of an active shield tanker, in case you already have a perma-tank (that also applies to perma-tank attempts under enemy incoming NOS), indeed, a DC is advisable. Same if you use injectors, again, a DC is advisable. However, if you are pretty far from an active perma-tank, the farther away you are, the less useful a DC is compared to, say, a PDU for instance. Reason is simple... a T2 DC gives you a flat -12.5% reduction to damage dealt to shields, in other words you tank aproximately +14.2857% damage. Now, adding a PDU-II for instance adds not only +14.754% to capacitor recharge rate (and hence the same percentage of tankable damage), but also the same percentage of boost to the shield recharge rate... overall, you tank at least 15% more damage in the long run, probably more. If you're a passive shield tanker, a single SPR-II (or Beta Reactor SPR) will increase your tankable damage by more than 31.5%, which is quite clearly MUCH better as a DC. In the end, unless you're subjected to massive amounts of incoming DPS above your tank level, it is usually better even after you take the other resists granted by the DC into account. Basically, AS A SHIELD TANKER, you want to have a DC every time you know you're in grave danger of dying before you can exhaust your capacitor reserves (i.e. heavy incoming DPS)... and you never want a DC when you know the incoming DPS is roughly the same order of magnitude as your tank. In PVP theer is no such thing as perma tank, so resists >>>>>>>> a bit more cap per second. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:20:00 - [35] If from "PvP" you automatically exclude 1-vs-1, then yes, indeed, there's no such thing as a perma-tank Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Alan Bell Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.23 08:41:00 - [36] Edited by: Alan Bell on 23/07/2007 08:40:49 they should add a module similair to a DC, but for the mid slots (something for armor tankers). maybe similair along the lines of a CPR and a cap recharger...(both help cap, different slots) Baka!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:39:00 - [37] If I were getting engaged, I'd skip the diamond and give my fiancee a DCU II. She'd be happy with that, because it is the best module ever. Apart from hyperbole, why do I compare the DCU II with a diamond? How else do you make two month's salary last forever? Because that is what the DCU II does - it makes expensive, armor-tanking PvE ships last forever. I include the DCU II in every non-shield tanking setup.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:48:00 - [38] Diamonds are WAY overrated. I'd rather go for Rhodium+Iridium myself Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:12:00 - [39] The 1 tank slot on my 'diction goes to a DCII actually.

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