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ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:47:00 - [1] Can you solo level 4 missions? If so which missions do you excel at? And what kind of fittings and tactics do you use? I've never used lasers nor have I tried level 4s with such a short-ranged ship.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 23/07/2007 13:37:19 1. Yes 2. None, either not enough dps or not enough range so it doesn't yield great times. 3. 6 beams, 3 hs, tank. Just go in and shoot them. 4. Lasers work fine if you run for Amarr corps (or in Amarr space, whichever determines that you get mostly blood, sansha and drones). But the Absos dps is rather lackluster, the really good laser boat for missions is the Abaddon. Abso is better for lvl3s and belt ratting. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:42:00 - [3] Edited by: LUKEC on 23/07/2007 13:43:03 Edited by: LUKEC on 23/07/2007 13:42:45 1. yes 2. whatever at shooting amarr/drones. Don't listen to that abaddon 10607657 billion setup guy that still need chaning for every mission. Abso with beams has good enough range with aurora (that you mostly don't need) and really pwn small stuff. Battleships don't really hit you anyway. 3. 6x beam II, armor link/nosf, comp, 2x rechII, faction mar, 2x db eanm II, th hardener, 3x db hs II Mostly don't need to change setup, only few mission really need web. Go in, aggro and shoot, there is no "tactic" for lvl4 if you do them solo, just aggro smaller groups and pwn them. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:02:00 - [4] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 23/07/2007 14:04:10 6 heavy pulse II with amarr navy multifreq (they're cheap and last longer than tech2, and dps is almost the same w/o any penalties), HAML (or a tractor\|salvager if you like), 2 med drones and 1 light, 2 or 3 heat sinks, DCII/2EANM, thermic and kin hards, corpum med a-type rep, AB, web, CRII. Web is needed to pop the inties, you could do it with drones but that's too much hassle for my liking. You could replace that with another CRII or a tracking comp though. Rigs are CCCs but perhaps some speed helping would be more in order here... Oh well it's a tank beast so I prefer CCCs. With armored warfare specialist this makes the invulnerable tank for any lvl4 mission (once I tanked the "recon 1/3" for several minutes, but my cap ran off before I could kill enough rats to reduce DPS to managable levels, so I had to warp off in reluctance. then I noticed that my gang booster have forgot to turn on any links...). dps at about 10km and less is ok in most missions if you have good skills. if you have trouble killing rats then launch some drones with kin/exp damage types. however you need skirmish warfare links as well to make up for the lack of speed. snakes are also highly recommended. if you max your speed then you'll get to the rats at about 1km/sec with an AB, which partially makes up for the close ranged setup. but of course missions are faster to farm with raven, it's not a question...
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:26:00 - [5] Originally by: LUKEC Don't listen to that abaddon 10607657 billion setup guy that still need chaning for every mission. Abso with beams has good enough range with aurora (that you mostly don't need) and really pwn small stuff. Battleships don't really hit you anyway. Don't listen to our self appointed mission expert with no clue about efficient highsec running. Aurora does crap damage, and in many Amarr missions you start 70km from the closest spawn. And Abaddon pwns small stuff just as well if not better (mine kills 5 frigs per volley usually), and the majority of effective HP is in the battleships in most missions, which is where the Absolutions lack of dps starts to hurt. Of course, if you think taking 5 minutes longer on a mission is better than taking 30 secs to change your setup, you already failed at efficient running anyway. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Sparkius Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:37:00 - [6] I've ran through a bunch of theoretical setups comparing the Absolution (which I fly now in level 3s) and the Abaddon (which I'm setting up for level 4s). The Absolution tanks at least as well as the Abaddon and is easier to set up with a perma-tank. The problem, like others have said, is range and damage. You could probably fix this with faction gear, but then again putting faction gear on the Abaddon would make its tank better so it's a toss-up. I do love the Absolution and I hope the Abaddon lives up to it when it comes to doing level 4s. <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence." - Anoymous
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Sparkius and is easier to set up with a perma-tank Get rid of that notion and you'll do much better. Abaddon doesn't need a perma tank.
Sparkius Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:21:00 - [8] Yes, by "easier" I really meant "possible". The Abaddon can run a good setup for 6+ minutes solid, so it isn't a problem for missions. <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence." - Anoymous
Borasao	Posted - 2007.07.23 20:42:00 - [9] I've run some of the Blood Raider, Sansha, and Drone missions (L4s) in my Absolution and I like it quite a bit. Range is sometimes an issue but most rats in missions like to get close. A combination of tech 2 heavy pulses with microwave (for up to 25k range) and gamma (for up to 13k range) gets the job done for me. Some rats you'll have to just AB into range in order to kill. I've only had dps issues with microwave against the strongest mission rats but it's usually not a problem to get within gamma range and then they pop quite easily. Make sure you use the right hardeners and know what ships can warp scramble you (kill them before they get in under your pulses or you'll have to use drones to kill them). There's only a handful of those missions where I even have to turn on my 2nd rep (and those may get hairy if you don't watch it).
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:53:00 - [10] Thanks for replies. Absolution looks like a really fun ship. If I have to get in close, then I have to get in close. Thats fine I guess as long as its got a strong tank, and you guys are saying good things about its tank.

LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: LUKEC Don't listen to that abaddon 10607657 billion setup guy that still need chaning for every mission. Abso with beams has good enough range with aurora (that you mostly don't need) and really pwn small stuff. Battleships don't really hit you anyway. Don't listen to our self appointed mission expert with no clue about efficient highsec running. Aurora does crap damage, and in many Amarr missions you start 70km from the closest spawn. And Abaddon pwns small stuff just as well if not better (mine kills 5 frigs per volley usually), and the majority of effective HP is in the battleships in most missions, which is where the Absolutions lack of dps starts to hurt. Of course, if you think taking 5 minutes longer on a mission is better than taking 30 secs to change your setup, you already failed at efficient running anyway. Funny. Hi sec missions & efficiency in same sentece is funny. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
HayesDuSid High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:05:00 - [12] As someone who flies both the abaddon and the absolution in level 4s, let me say this: Range is king. For speed and tank the abaddon rarely NEEDS to turn on its repper. HOWEVER, I love my absolution My basic set up is: Rigs: 2x capacitor control circuit rigs Highs: 6x Heavy Beam Laser II with infrared crystals 1x tractor beam Mid: 2x Cap Recharger II 1x 10mn AB II Low: 2x MAR II 2x EANM II 2x HS II 1x Capacitor Power Relay II for slightly more tank you can remove a heat sink for a hardner of your choice. My previous (more tanked out) fit removed the heat sinks for a capacitor power relay II and a thermic membrane II and removed a cap recharger for an x5 webber. Worked fine IMO but too slow...so the fit listed was born. You call on what you wanna do.
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.07.24 00:29:00 - [13] I did some calculations and I was surprised to see that the Absolution, despite having 1 less turret than the Astarte, actually achieves 6% higher DPS. Was not expecting that.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.24 09:49:00 - [14] Originally by: LUKEC Funny. Hi sec missions & efficiency in same sentece is funny. Well of course to someone who can run missions in Delve with zero risk and is slightly detached from reality it must seem funny. But the average Joe can't run missions in 0.0 with the same risk (or lack thereof) as in highsec, so the best way to go about it is running an efficient setup in highsec rather than a crap one in lowsec. Actually it is even better than an efficient setup in lowsec since the rewards are not good enough to justify hours of idling every now and then when camped in... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:34:00 - [15] Originally by: ForumPosterAlt I did some calculations and I was surprised to see that the Absolution, despite having 1 less turret than the Astarte, actually achieves 6% higher DPS. Was not expecting that. that cant be tbh... 7x turrets whit 2x dmg bonus (5% per lvl on BC skill and 5% per lvl on CS skill) i have to see this myself :P /me gets out a calculator :) --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
HayesDuSid Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:40:00 - [16] Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 10:44:57 Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 10:44:15 Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 10:43:58 Its possibly true...BUT the astarte isnt doing EM damage now is it :P It wins on damage typing and drone bay and...Honestly 7.5% more rep is better than 5% more resists isnt it? Effectively the resists mean each rep cycle you rep 25% more and the rep amount means you rep 30% more. The difference being that the resists make you have more effective HP. Absolution is awesome but ah what can you do when you do EM damage and guns that with higher rof actually weaken your tanking capabilities.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:12:00 - [17] Originally by: HayesDuSid Its possibly true...BUT the astarte isnt doing EM damage now is it :P It wins on damage typing and drone bay and...Honestly 7.5% more rep is better than 5% more resists isnt it? Effectively the resists mean each rep cycle you rep 25% more and the rep amount means you rep 30% more. The difference being that the resists make you have more effective HP. Absolution is awesome but ah what can you do when you do EM damage and guns that with higher rof actually weaken your tanking capabilities. Not understanding effective HP 4tl A 25% resistance bonus equals 33% more effective HP, not 25%. And that is 33% more HP each rep cycle, 33% more HP to begin with, and less need to run the repper. At least in my book that is clearly superior to a 37.5% repper bonus. And if you run missions for Amarr, EM damage is an advantage, not a disadvantage, since most NPCs yuo face are weakest to EM. Among the command ships the Abso is a good mission runner, and ideal for L3s. In L4s, it just cannot compete with the Abaddon, which happens to be the plain best ship to use against blood, sansha and drones, which are the opponents in ~80% of the missions given to me by Amarr agents. And you don't even need to use my optimized fittings on the Abaddon, a much simpler fit will also do the job very well, much better than an Abso ever could. You only need to detach yourself from the permatanking concept, that is soooooo 2005 The best tank a great mission ship has is its gank. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:26:00 - [18] yes lvl 4 able sansha and blood raiders are the ones u need to look for / lasers = em/therm damage all t2 fitting / em/therm hardners. its a nice ship 2 bad u have to use lasers to get maximum bonus effect. --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
HayesDuSid Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:30:00 - [19] Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 11:34:45 Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 11:32:08 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: HayesDuSid Its possibly true...BUT the astarte isnt doing EM damage now is it :P It wins on damage typing and drone bay and...Honestly 7.5% more rep is better than 5% more resists isnt it? Effectively the resists mean each rep cycle you rep 25% more and the rep amount means you rep 30% more. The difference being that the resists make you have more effective HP. Absolution is awesome but ah what can you do when you do EM damage and guns that with higher rof actually weaken your tanking capabilities. Not understanding effective HP 4tl A 25% resistance bonus equals 33% more effective HP, not 25%. And that is 33% more HP each rep cycle, 33% more HP to begin with, and less need to run the repper. At least in my book that is clearly superior to a 37.5% repper bonus. And if you run missions for Amarr, EM damage is an advantage, not a disadvantage, since most NPCs yuo face are weakest to EM. Among the command ships the Abso is a good mission runner, and ideal for L3s. In L4s, it just cannot compete with the Abaddon, which happens to be the plain best ship to use against blood, sansha and drones, which are the opponents in ~80% of the missions given to me by Amarr agents. And you don't even need to use my optimized fittings on the Abaddon, a much simpler fit will also do the job very well, much better than an Abso ever could. You only need to detach yourself from the permatanking concept, that is soooooo 2005 The best tank a great mission ship has is its gank. Ill asssume you are right on the effective HP, could you give me the formula for how you worked it out though? Its kinda early in the morning and I am not thinking particularly straight atm. As for EM damage, mebbe so, but I mission for gallente :P So EM is bad for me. Lastly, the aba is a fantastic ship, and yes gank is a good tank. I personally would change that to range gank is the best mission tank though :P
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:54:00 - [20] Originally by: HayesDuSid Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 11:34:45 Edited by: HayesDuSid on 24/07/2007 11:32:08 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: HayesDuSid Its possibly true...BUT the astarte isnt doing EM damage now is it :P It wins on damage typing and drone bay and...Honestly 7.5% more rep is better than 5% more resists isnt it? Effectively the resists mean each rep cycle you rep 25% more and the rep amount means you rep 30% more. The difference being that the resists make you have more effective HP. Absolution is awesome but ah what can you do when you do EM damage and guns that with higher rof actually weaken your tanking capabilities. Not understanding effective HP 4tl A 25% resistance bonus equals 33% more effective HP, not 25%. And that is 33% more HP each rep cycle, 33% more HP to begin with, and less need to run the repper. At least in my book that is clearly superior to a 37.5% repper bonus. And if you run missions for Amarr, EM damage is an advantage, not a disadvantage, since most NPCs yuo face are weakest to EM. Among the command ships the Abso is a good mission runner, and ideal for L3s. In L4s, it just cannot compete with the Abaddon, which happens to be the plain best ship to use against blood, sansha and drones, which are the opponents in ~80% of the missions given to me by Amarr agents. And you don't even need to use my optimized fittings on the Abaddon, a much simpler fit will also do the job very well, much better than an Abso ever could. You only need to detach yourself from the permatanking concept, that is soooooo 2005 The best tank a great mission ship has is its gank. Ill asssume you are right on the effective HP, could you give me the formula for how you worked it out though? Its kinda early in the morning and I am not thinking particularly straight atm. As for EM damage, mebbe so, but I mission for gallente :P So EM is bad for me. Lastly, the aba is a fantastic ship, and yes gank is a good tank. I personally would change that to range gank is the best mission tank though :P You shoot at someone with 100 HP and 25% resistance. That means 75% of your damage make it though, so you need so much damage to kill him that 75% of that damage is 100. X * 0.75 = 100 X = 100 / 0.75 Effective HP = HP / (1 - resistance/100) And yeah range is a nice 'tank boost amplifier' but some missions don't allow you to use it without shooting yourself in the foot and traveling a lot. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones

ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:34:00 - [21] As to how an Absolution is higher DPS than Astarte, this concerns rails vs beams rather than blasters vs pulse. Heavy Beam IIs are 3.6 damage modifier and 6.0 second refire. 250mm Railgun IIs are 3.3 damage modifider and 6.38 second refire. Heavy Beam II = ((3.6 / 6.0) * 6 * 1.25) / 0.75 = 6 250mm Railgun II = (3.3 / 6.38) * 7 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 5.6573275862069~ 6 / 5.6573275862069~ = 1.06~
Judius Amarr Point-Zero	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:00:00 - [22] Originally by: ForumPosterAlt Can you solo level 4 missions? If so which missions do you excel at? And what kind of fittings and tactics do you use? I've never used lasers nor have I tried level 4s with such a short-ranged ship. 1.) Yes 2.) Any Blood or Sansha Missions are very easy. Gurista missions are a pain due to Jamming and low DPS output to Gurista ships, but all are doable just time consuming. 3.) Fitting Hi 6x Heavy pulse II 1x Nos Med 1xABII (you need that to get in range) 1xWeb (needed to slow those frigs that think they can warp jam you) 1x Cap Recharger II Low 2x Med Armor Rep II (the chances of needing the second rep is low but good to have) 1x Damg control II ( I love this if your armor rep fails you have atleast a few secs to align and warp out) 2x Active armor hardeners mission specific 1x EANM II 1x HS II Rigs 2x CCC I like to use the navy crystals they are easy to come by and last for at least 10 missions. I use tec2 drones of mission specific damg but rarly even pull them out during the mission. I like the ability to pop the jamming frigs fast with the web it's pretty much means that no matter what I can warp away if needed.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:16:00 - [23] I have been running Caldari level 4's in an Absolution for about a month now and have no problems. Ran a few Amarr to get faction ammo but those are just too easy to be fun :) Started with a Heavy Pulse II setup but the travel time to get in range slowed the average times way down. now using Heavy Beams II, Navy UV/Gamma and T2 Light drones gets you about 5-600 dps which is more than enough for all missions. Gurista and Angels don't pose any problems except for the 1M+ BS rats. Most rats die between 20-30km. One of the benefits of smaller ships (Speed) in running lvl4's were taken away with Rev.2 when pretty much all the stage gates were put at the warp-in points, the sluggishness of BS is just a turn-off for me. For extra Oomph (until its provided by the elusive CCP) plug in the 2 damage implants.


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