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EVE has been diluted to cater to whining and noobs

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Patent Lawyer Civil Defense Bureau	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:39:00 - [1] Yes - this is somewhat of a whine also, but if you cant beat em, join em. EVE was designed to be a sandbox game. Hardcore, tough, challenging, open with possibilities, full of risk. EVE used to be a challenging game. It used to be hardcore. used to have possibilities, used to be full of risk. Times have changed. EVE is still a GREAT game. However changes (patches and updates) of late have catered to new players and potential new players by making the game easier, less risky, etc. However at the same time, Developers have made other changes that contradict making the game easier for new players to get into and yet harder for both vets and new players to earn income to support pvp habits or what have you. Revelations brought us sovereignty to make it 'easier' for alliances to claim and hold space. So instead of less POS spammage I only hear reports of increased POS warfare and spammage. Devs were supposed to create goals for smaller gangs by moving POS installations outside shields, but then made them practically invincible to those gangs. 15m hitpoints for a 10-20 man BS gang while tanking heavy fire of POS guns w/o capitals? What were you thinking? this changed nothing. It only forces more POS spammage and more lag forcing larger gangs of capitals to down POS's, Anchor more POS's, etc. How again does this reward smaller skirmishes again? The fight for space has forced less actual fighting and more logistics, larger gangs, and little actual combat. Want to make isk? Some pvp'ers use Level 4's to make isk to buy ships. What did you developers do? You nerf level 4's that used to be challenging more or less and now are a joke. They are so boring i dont even want to login to make the isk to buy / replace the ship to return to the battlefield. The point was to reduce inflation but you forget that a lot of vets have billions already. You cant just reduce level 4 missions payout and expect that to reduce inflation. That is only a small portion of what people in EVE do to make isk. New players have no challenge as level 1's are about as easy as level 4's now, and level 5's are such a jump in challenge and yet low on reward they are useless. Doing level 4's now make me feel like i am an isk farmer rather than loggin in to make isk with some type of challenge than just mindless point and clicking. You have taken away our challenge, our fun, our isk, diluted pvp and effectively did the opposite of what you intended. Risk is out the door as most pilots petition losses or dont even fight, just sit while POS's are erected and taken down. Sovereignty has failed. PvP is diluted. Level 4's are a joke now. Level 5's are a joke. Empire is too safe, low - sec has little added rewards for the risk, and 0.0 has balkanized so much that alliances are a dime a dozen. Bah... there are plenty of bugs, plenty of issues, whines, complaints. I know this isnt needed and yet still.. CCP isnt 'getting it'. The changes of the last major patch Revelations are not what EVE needs. I know I am not alone. Hope i didnt ramble too much and sorry for saying what i feel is necessary to say yet again. Forgive me oh trollers of forums.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:40:00 - [2] Please see this post.
Patent Lawyer Civil Defense Bureau	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:49:00 - [3] Why, it has nothing to do with this thread.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:50:00 - [4] because this thread has nothing to do with this thread Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Patent Lawyer Why, it has nothing to do with this thread. The graph. Read the graph.
Metal Thong	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:51:00 - [6] good post. eve is fraying under the strain
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.26 05:53:00 - [7] I can understand where this person is coming from, but honestly, most of his post is in relation to hi-sec stuff. The problem that I see with EVE today is that EVE today doesn't have much risk in hi-sec. Freightor issues in hi-sec is nothing, people earn too much isk in hi-sec. Hi-sec should be a place where you learn how to play, and the rewards follow in the more riskier areas. These days it seems CCP is more interested in making hi-sec a balanced place where you can make as much isk as you can lower sec. That in my opinion is the worst move possible. The lower the sec, the greater the reward should be.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Metal Thong I COULDN'T BUY ISK AND GET AWAY WITH IT, BOOHOOO Drama much? - Recruitment open again-
Metal Thong	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Metal Thong I COULDN'T BUY ISK AND GET AWAY WITH IT, BOOHOOO Drama much? stalker much?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:03:00 - [10] they deleted your thread by the way. go get angry about it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Vincenzo Delloro Amarr Lux et Veritas	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:09:00 - [11] Originally by: MotherMoon they deleted your thread by the way. go get angry about it. If I was wearing a metal thong, I would not just be angry, I would be extremely uncomfortable. Because it's a bit cold here.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.26 06:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Christari Zuborov I can understand where this person is coming from, but honestly, most of his post is in relation to hi-sec stuff. The problem that I see with EVE today is that EVE today doesn't have much risk in hi-sec. Freightor issues in hi-sec is nothing, people earn too much isk in hi-sec. Hi-sec should be a place where you learn how to play, and the rewards follow in the more riskier areas. These days it seems CCP is more interested in making hi-sec a balanced place where you can make as much isk as you can lower sec. That in my opinion is the worst move possible. The lower the sec, the greater the reward should be. its quite impossible since the game is player run and peoples trading will be where the most isk can be made and vice versa - unless they introduced something like 1% tax in 1.0 going down 0.2 to 0 in 0.5 and they also added a 1% tax on high sec systems that have a daily average of more than 400 players going down 0.5 per 100 less - but these are all tricky and unneeded solutions to something that is only a problem if you dont think the game should be heavily player influenced ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.26 07:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Patent Lawyer used to be a challenging game .. Times have changed In my reading you seem to just complain for the fun of it, even with contradictng claims. Perhaps Eve has remained true to the vision, but your expectations and feelings have changed? Like, CCP is trying to reduce ISK influx from easy riskless missions, and gave us lowsec lv 5 missions instead. To me that sounds like getting ISK is more challengingharder now. Originally by: Patent Lawyer brought us sovereignty Would think it is still too early to see implications of Revelation changes, especially when they are being tweaked. Remember, full blob assault against POSes is not the only way to conquer space. Seems you would more like the old way: have dominating presence all over enemys core systems, till their carebears have vacated and PVPers are tired. Much easier to pick the ripe POSes after that, giving you lot of smal l gang warfare during the process. Originally by: Patent Lawyer 0.0 has balkanized so much that alliances are a dime a dozen Of your issues this seems to be the one I disagree the most. I believe for the game it is far better to have dynamic landscape with many many smaller alliances. Having two huge alliances against each other like on China server would be the worst case (leading to my opposition towards 'dominant' forces like MCBO.) Although we both seem to agree Eve is great game, it hard to find sympathy towards your post when paint it all in so dark colours, without anything positive. The game does have huge issues, but IMHO they are dwarfed by the reasonably working great parts. CCP is still developing it, still true to the vision of the harsh hot game. Their announced roadmaps seem to match the will of players, but the road is long, and small progressive steps difficult to notice. Perhaps the question should be: is the game model better than it was two years ago? Everytime I have thought about that, the answer has been 'yes'. I might have enjoyed the game more back then, but that would have been due the things being new to me. -Lasse
gpYUAN29	Posted - 2007.07.26 07:31:00 - [14] Wow. Like.. Just wow. Quote: Quote by Some Muppet Sovereignty has failed. PvP is diluted. Level 4's are a joke now. Level 5's are a joke. Empire is too safe, low - sec has little added rewards for the risk, and 0.0 has balkanized so much that alliances are a dime a dozen. Wrong. Got perspective?
JosephStalin	Posted - 2007.07.26 07:35:00 - [15] the trouble with throwing people into low sec and 0.0 is that the skill gap is massive and this with the advent of capitals and super capitals has turned into a massive arms gap as well. Its just not feasable for a group of six month old players to be a factor in 0.0 unless they are in massive numbers like the goons. Even the goons have only proven to be as successful as they have due to the large number of account's they have forum bought that increase there average skill times.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.26 08:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Patent Lawyer The fight for space has forced less actual fighting and more logistics, larger gangs, and little actual combat. Correct. And a good thing, as you rightly say Eve is a hardcore, tough, challenging game. Not one where you can swan in with your uber fleet and destroy the work of several months in an instant. Now you need to combine strategy with your pew pew. So, are you going to adapt or is darwinism gonna nerf you?
Hyperforce99 Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.26 08:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Christari Zuborov I can understand where this person is coming from, but honestly, most of his post is in relation to hi-sec stuff. The problem that I see with EVE today is that EVE today doesn't have much risk in hi-sec. Freightor issues in hi-sec is nothing, people earn too much isk in hi-sec. Hi-sec should be a place where you learn how to play, and the rewards follow in the more riskier areas. These days it seems CCP is more interested in making hi-sec a balanced place where you can make as much isk as you can lower sec. Didn't you just support the guy that said EVE is suppost to be a sandbox... ? but doesn't that contradict your oppinion about telling people how to play the game... think about this, you say you want eve to be open to everyones playing style but at the same time your telling CCP to make EVE into a 0.0 game ..... Honestly if people want to do less risky missioning in high sec and fly expensive ships without having to worry to much about losing them, thats they're desision, I know I don't mind the lifestyle, even though I'm currently in 0.0 getting shot and shooting back.
Trade Girly	Posted - 2007.07.26 09:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Patent Lawyer Yes - this is somewhat of a whine also, but if you cant beat em, join em. EVE was designed to be a sandbox game. Hardcore, tough, challenging, open with possibilities, full of risk. EVE used to be a challenging game. It used to be hardcore. used to have possibilities, used to be full of risk. Times have changed. EVE is still a GREAT game. However changes (patches and updates) of late have catered to new players and potential new players by making the game easier, less risky, etc. However at the same time, Developers have made other changes that contradict making the game easier for new players to get into and yet harder for both vets and new players to earn income to support pvp habits or what have you. Revelations brought us sovereignty to make it 'easier' for alliances to claim and hold space. So instead of less POS spammage I only hear reports of increased POS warfare and spammage. Devs were supposed to create goals for smaller gangs by moving POS installations outside shields, but then made them practically invincible to those gangs. 15m hitpoints for a 10-20 man BS gang while tanking heavy fire of POS guns w/o capitals? What were you thinking? this changed nothing. It only forces more POS spammage and more lag forcing larger gangs of capitals to down POS's, Anchor more POS's, etc. How again does this reward smaller skirmishes again? The fight for space has forced less actual fighting and more logistics, larger gangs, and little actual combat. Want to make isk? Some pvp'ers use Level 4's to make isk to buy ships. What did you developers do? You nerf level 4's that used to be challenging more or less and now are a joke. They are so boring i dont even want to login to make the isk to buy / replace the ship to return to the battlefield. The point was to reduce inflation but you forget that a lot of vets have billions already. You cant just reduce level 4 missions payout and expect that to reduce inflation. That is only a small portion of what people in EVE do to make isk. New players have no challenge as level 1's are about as easy as level 4's now, and level 5's are such a jump in challenge and yet low on reward they are useless. Doing level 4's now make me feel like i am an isk farmer rather than loggin in to make isk with some type of challenge than just mindless point and clicking. You have taken away our challenge, our fun, our isk, diluted pvp and effectively did the opposite of what you intended. Risk is out the door as most pilots petition losses or dont even fight, just sit while POS's are erected and taken down. Sovereignty has failed. PvP is diluted. Level 4's are a joke now. Level 5's are a joke. Empire is too safe, low - sec has little added rewards for the risk, and 0.0 has balkanized so much that alliances are a dime a dozen. Bah... there are plenty of bugs, plenty of issues, whines, complaints. I know this isnt needed and yet still.. CCP isnt 'getting it'. The changes of the last major patch Revelations are not what EVE needs. I know I am not alone. Hope i didnt ramble too much and sorry for saying what i feel is necessary to say yet again. Forgive me oh trollers of forums. Feels like you never been to 0.0. If you want some risk go 0.0 and stop saying about 1.0, since 1.0 supposed to be safe, if not I think this game will loose a lot of new players. It will be not fun to start playing and getting shoot after a few days (actually this can happend even now). Level 4 missions not hardcore enough??? Try to make it on phoon, scorp, domi or armag with level 1-3 of skill Battleship and other stuff at the same level, you'll see how hardcore it is. I'm sure that lv4 missions are still hardcore for nubs.
Ryan Darkwolf Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.07.26 10:31:00 - [19] I slightly agree with OP. Why you ask? Because although I understand the fact that new players needed an extra boost in order to allow them to keep up with the rest of the comunity...the fact that they start off with such high SP in such vital skills that take weeks to train (LV5 Frigate...WTF) CCP has created a great game...but as the years have gone by (I've played for 2 1/2 years...don't let my character age fool you) I've noticed the way that CCP has made way for whiners. I myself have whined a few times about unfair events...such as losing my ship when it was supposed to have been docked. Small bugs that occur every now and then that would be so much better to have fixed than have them adding all the new cool stuff. Yes the walking in stations thing is going to be sweet...but fixing bugs should be priority. On POS warfare...ok wtf..so smaller fleet combat...15mil HP....no that isn't going to happen...and don't they get 90% resistances once it hits structure...are you kidding me CCP??? I understand what the objective was...but instead you have made things harder to do. There is no way to have small skirmishes when it would take almost 5 hours to kill one POS structure while trying to tank POS weapon fire. ------------------- ????????????????????????????????? This Sigs Relevance to EVE-Online....None
Riffler	Posted - 2007.07.26 10:36:00 - [20] Without new players the game will die.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.26 10:37:00 - [21] Look back 4-5 years, same whines came along then, they will come along in 4-5 years to come also So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
level80uberruler	Posted - 2007.07.26 10:40:00 - [22] Solo pvp is pretty much a thing of the past Concord is not a police faction its a god entity that will nos, web,scram, and pod you AND your drones. High sec has turned into an eternal grind fest for people who wont go to 0.0 on account of 2 things : 1.) They are emigrants from other games and dont want to PVP 2.) Jumping into lowsec = bubble/dictor podded x100
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.07.26 10:56:00 - [23] Originally by: level80uberruler Solo pvp is pretty much a thing of the past Concord is not a police faction its a god entity that will nos, web,scram, and pod you AND your drones. High sec has turned into an eternal grind fest for people who wont go to 0.0 on account of 2 things : 1.) They are emigrants from other games and dont want to PVP 2.) Jumping into lowsec = bubble/dictor podded x100 Cool, what version of EVE do you play that has bubbles in lowsec? We're sorry, something happened.
Milena Rage Perkone	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Milena Rage on 26/07/2007 11:21:28 Edited by: Milena Rage on 26/07/2007 11:20:16 takes her BS out to 0.0 and runs around looking for a fight has 4 carriers drop in on her while being tackled by a gang of HACs LOLROLEPLAYING.. but you get the idea. p.s I kinda skimmed this thread. OFFTOPIC? maybe. pps Solo pvp? TEST SERVER \o/
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.26 11:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Milena Rage Edited by: Milena Rage on 26/07/2007 11:20:16 takes her BS out to 0.0 and runs around looking for a fight has 4 carriers drop in on her while being tackled by a gang of HACs LOLROLEPLAYING.. but you get the idea. p.s I kinda skimmed this thread. OFFTOPIC? maybe. If you go skinnydipping in a pool where there's a huge ******* sign that says "Beware, sharks will eat you!" and get bit...well...i don't see you complaining to the pool owner. I've been running a couple of cargoruns through lowsec/0.0 and i'm alive. Why? I scout. If you want "fast things fights now here now now now!", prepare to be boarded the same way. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.26 12:01:00 - [26] Whhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! EMPIRE BUILDING is not FPS in space... 0.0 life takes more than just PvP, if you don't like that, too bad... Building the homestead

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