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MrPops
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Posted - 2004.01.29 06:12:00 -
[1]
You have cut % gains and isk reward from agent missions. My lvl 3 agent now feels like a lvl 1 with constant 35k isk reward for each missions I do.
If you think we are gaining too fast, come out and say so. Tell us what the plans are and mention the changes in the patch log. I hate sneaky changes. Specially when they do it to what you have been focusing your time on for the past month.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is."
Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.01.29 06:17:00 -
[2]
I agree, especially when the earlier patchnotes stated that "The average rewards for missions have been raised over the board for courier missions." These patchnotes was edite later. See also http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=56236
K
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Drutort
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Posted - 2004.01.29 08:12:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
You have cut % gains and isk reward from agent missions. My lvl 3 agent now feels like a lvl 1 with constant 35k isk reward for each missions I do.
If you think we are gaining too fast, come out and say so. Tell us what the plans are and mention the changes in the patch log. I hate sneaky changes. Specially when they do it to what you have been focusing your time on for the past month.
ya im sick of stuff like that... i guess they want to bleed out the other ppl from agent missions?
oh well they should know this pi$ses ppl off a lot.
Having something be bad, and turn even worse is sad
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.01.29 08:29:00 -
[4]
I agree they should be up-front about it all, but I just have to *shrug* at the changes... We'll adapt
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Thomas Epsilon
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Posted - 2004.01.29 08:36:00 -
[5]
Hmm that explans why my lvl.2 agent, suddenly gives rewards like he was a lvl.1 agent.
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Falnaerith
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Posted - 2004.01.29 08:46:00 -
[6]
They had me excited yesterday before the patch. I had read the "Made courier missions more lucrative across the board" on their patch notes. DL'd the patch and continued missions, only to find less than what it was before.
Upon searching through the patch notes, the passage about increasing courier missions for isk had been deleted.
Well, it was good while it lasted I guess. Wait, the patch hadn't even come out before they nerfed it again. Eve-I remains the only place to find the un-edited patch notes.
Did they say they were doing the opposite of what they wrote?
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Basic truths?
Idiots make us rich.
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Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 08:49:00 -
[7]
Did they really nerf it or is it just because Effective Quality works now?
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 09:11:00 -
[8]
When Castor was released I explicitly stated on the forums that the rewards and the standing gains/losses would be rebalanced across the board when I had sufficient data as to how travel time and changes to the missions since Gemini affected the rewards.
In Gemini, the average mission time was 27 minutes. In Castor, it's 18. That means that until CP3 the imbalance was ensuring that rewards and standings were given out at quite a bit higher rate than intended.
Also, just days before Castor was initially released, a request came to quadruple the amount of Tech 2 components dished out. Fine and dandy. Unfortunately the request was sent both to Hj÷rtur (Pong) and myself. Hj÷rtur fixed it by dividing the item base values by four. I fixed it by changing the agent system to multiply the value of these dished out by four. Thus that was a bug.
I am sorry that this didn't make the patch notes. I had thought this info was in them. No sneakiness intended. I had also intended to post about this on the forums, but forgot to. My bad.
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Tirren
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Posted - 2004.01.29 09:22:00 -
[9]
Quote:
When Castor was released I explicitly stated on the forums that the rewards and the standing gains/losses would be rebalanced across the board when I had sufficient data as to how travel time and changes to the missions since Gemini affected the rewards.
In Gemini, the average mission time was 27 minutes. In Castor, it's 18. That means that until CP3 the imbalance was ensuring that rewards and standings were given out at quite a bit higher rate than intended.
Also, just days before Castor was initially released, a request came to quadruple the amount of Tech 2 components dished out. Fine and dandy. Unfortunately the request was sent both to Hj÷rtur (Pong) and myself. Hj÷rtur fixed it by dividing the item base values by four. I fixed it by changing the agent system to multiply the value of these dished out by four. Thus that was a bug.
I am sorry that this didn't make the patch notes. I had thought this info was in them. No sneakiness intended. I had also intended to post about this on the forums, but forgot to. My bad.
Before patch mission rewards were great, and travel time was awesome. I was actually coming out equal to what a good miner can do for their time.
After patch mission travel times doubled due to grid fixes, and rewards plumetted, almost in half what I used to get. As it stands the commodity supply missions prepatch i could come out even, sometimes on top... now I'm losing buttloads of isk to complete these missions.
Every patch seems to be more and more lucrative for those Pirate PK'rs and less so for those of us who detest PK and want to play other aspects of the game. I'm beginning to feel like I'll have to somehow start doing what I detest to make it anywhere in this game.
PS: All of the RAM's mineral recycling got nerfed a ton. Their value has gone from Valuable to nearly wortheless, any reason for this change?
"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"
EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21 |
IcedBach Jr
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Posted - 2004.01.29 09:35:00 -
[10]
I have to agree, I liked to log on and do a mission or two, now bleh, the rewards suck and the bonuses are always ISK, and not alot of it either. WHO WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MISSONS. Btw, great work Papa Smurf, you are the only one that responds to the community.
Praeludium to success |
Nikodaemonicus
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Posted - 2004.01.29 09:35:00 -
[11]
Notice how eve population was decreasing since castor release until yesterday, and suddenly increased with this patch. I was one of these guys who stopped playing 1 week ago (due work and missions turning boring, my choice was my work). After yesterday patch I saw how people logged in again (included myself) in order to find an improvement on agents. My surprise came when I found rewards decreased a lot. Ok, we can adapt and evolve. But now that reward are less than tobacco cost, we have to spend 2x time jumping and travelling.
Sincerelly, I find it hard to spend more time than before doing missions.
You have talked about fixing and improving mission rewards. So if you did it, what was happening from Castor to last patch? Still christmas present+
Maybe you should heard your followers (including myself) as you have being doing until now. My voice is to increase rewards again (I'm not going to do 17 jumps for a 70k reward sorry, and still have to receive something decent that are not shuttles) and if you are aware of it, you cannot return to your home station fast again anymore.
Once again I don't care adapting, but there are not many options out there for me that I have not 24/7 hours to play |
Svarun
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Posted - 2004.01.29 09:41:00 -
[12]
Please please PLEASE revert missions to what they were in 1360. This is just demoralizing... they take about 40% longer to complete and give about 50% less money, you can calculate yourself how much that cuts in our makings. Come on, its not like people were getting rich of missions, now its the least viable profession ingame unless you are searching for something specific (read implants).
Please make missioning a viable career path again!
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:02:00 -
[13]
Seems like if you're not mining Arkanor, you're wasting your time, when it comes to generating wealth.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:16:00 -
[14]
Maybe Negotiation skill could be fixed? "Skill at agent negotiation. 5% additional pay for agent missions."
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:18:00 -
[15]
Quote:
In Gemini, the average mission time was 27 minutes. In Castor, it's 18.
Is that before or after the fix to the JIP? Because as of yesterday, journey times went up by between a quarter and a third. At the same time as the rewards went down... :-(
This argument also relies on the rewards in Gemini having been right in the first place, which I'd argue. The revenue from agent missions in Gemini came mostly from implants. The nice thing about Castor was that the actual individual mission rewards felt worth having too. This has ruined that.
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:54:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Before patch mission rewards were great, and travel time was awesome. I was actually coming out equal to what a good miner can do for their time.
Note: from a game design perspective the agent system is not intended to pay off as much as mining ISK wise. Agents give standings as their primary reward. The only other activity within EVE that gives any standings is pirate killing, which (depending on the bug of the day) only gives CONCORD corp standings at a dreadfully slow rate.
Quote:
After patch mission travel times doubled due to grid fixes, and rewards plumetted, almost in half what I used to get. As it stands the commodity supply missions prepatch i could come out even, sometimes on top... now I'm losing buttloads of isk to complete these missions.
If the grid fixes changed the travel times significantly, that should increase the mission average time and will be taken into account.
Quote:
Every patch seems to be more and more lucrative for those Pirate PK'rs and less so for those of us who detest PK and want to play other aspects of the game. I'm beginning to feel like I'll have to somehow start doing what I detest to make it anywhere in this game.
If ISK is your goal, the agents have not been intended to pay off in ISK as well as other gaming styles up to now. That being said however, perhaps brighter days are coming. Our Game Design dudes have seen the errors of their ways and are going to discuss the Agent Reward Situation, with the strong point in mind that perhaps agents shouldn't be at such a heavy financial disadvantage towards mining and pirate hunting... I'd expect them to meet today and hopefully a hotfix will take care of this Tomorrow(-ish) (tm). Assuming that they don't end up saying "hey, agents should pay crud." which I doubt they will.
Quote:
PS: All of the RAM's mineral recycling got nerfed a ton. Their value has gone from Valuable to nearly wortheless, any reason for this change?
Actually that was just a bug in the mineral composition of the components. Hj÷rtur/Pong almost had a heart attack when he found out what the mineral composition was.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:54:00 -
[17]
As for rewards I made around 50 million isk in implants alone yesterday since patch (would be 120 million orso if i didnt end up selling my implants against bottom prices to my corp members)... Sure i cant use 1 agent anymore, but to be quite honost agents are now totally useless for anything besides farming em for implants. So why would i care about that? As soon as implant prices reach bottom levels im out of the agent business.
Also the stealth nerf of tools and rdbs kinda totally sucks, technically i had around 40 mil worth of that stuff. Now its worth a fraction of that.
The only thing somewhat positive about this patch is the fact that Zor is cool 
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.29 10:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xailia on 29/01/2004 10:59:08
/me loves Papa once more 
*Tosses Papa a Toblerone* 
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Helison
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Posted - 2004.01.29 11:07:00 -
[19]
/me stopped doing missions
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.01.29 11:33:00 -
[20]
Thanks for the answers Papa Smurf.
/emotecrosses fingers that the devs will not want agents to pay crud.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 11:34:00 -
[21]
/me cancelled subscription
My character has not the correct attributes to survive in this world. Why is charisma even an attribute?
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Gerome Doutrande
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Posted - 2004.01.29 11:43:00 -
[22]
Good post - thanks for the info!
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.01.29 12:03:00 -
[23]
'agents pay crud' would be funny, but I think 'Agents pay well' would be better.
Also, a more noticable increase in rewards between a standing 5.0 and a 9.7 would maybe stop people farming their agents down to 0 standing to get implants.
Maybe have 9.5 and above personal standing equal a 'standard' implant, you might discourage the 'farmers', and reward the people who are sticking at it.
I was disappointed when I got 2 level 3 agents up to 9.6/9.7, with corp standing of 9.6, and was getting at best, average rewards. I was like this guys right arm, and he pays like he just met me.
.
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 12:09:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Maybe Negotiation skill could be fixed? "Skill at agent negotiation. 5% additional pay for agent missions."
Negotiation affects EQ, which affects mission pay. Should be working as far as I am aware of.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.01.29 12:10:00 -
[25]
Dm, why on earth would you ever use agents for anything else then implants now? Its just logical to farm em down...
Its the only thing slightly wortwhile, since Im not gonna make 8 jump roundtrips just to get 50 to 150k and 1 implant each 20 to 30 missions.
Just not worth it in any way, its boring, its repetetive, and gives you the idea you are wasting time.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 12:23:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Falbala on 29/01/2004 12:39:14
Papa Smurf, if I believe what is said here, EQ 0 agent gives the same reward than EQ 33 agent... I get 20-60k rewards from EQ 0 agent.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=56402
[Edit]
However, only agents missions were keeping my character playable since she is charisma based and is bad at Science, Navigation, Industry and everything else. I thought at first that you changed the reward so high negociation and agent quality would mean that you get the same rewards than before patch and low EQ would cut it down, but it was not. My character is useless, so I stop playing.
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 13:09:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Maybe you should heard your followers (including myself) as you have being doing until now. My voice is to increase rewards again (I'm not going to do 17 jumps for a 70k reward sorry, and still have to receive something decent that are not shuttles) and if you are aware of it, you cannot return to your home station fast again anymore.
Once again I don't care adapting, but there are not many options out there for me that I have not 24/7 hours to play
I hear you, but I really can't do much about it unless Game Design stops saying that agent missions should pay less than pirate killing. What's on TQ now is paying out at the rate it's "supposed to".
Happily though, the general outcry of "you nerfing b*st*rds!" has sent them to the meeting room. Hopefully they'll come up with a change of heart today(-ish).
(just practicing my fingerpointing ;)
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 13:15:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Is that before or after the fix to the JIP? Because as of yesterday, journey times went up by between a quarter and a third.
Before. Obviously I'll have to do some querying again to make the system jive with that fix. I'll do so in conjunction with whatever Game Design comes up with today.
Quote:
This argument also relies on the rewards in Gemini having been right in the first place, which I'd argue. The revenue from agent missions in Gemini came mostly from implants.
This has always been a big problem with missions. Hopefully our GD dudes will see the light.
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Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 13:17:00 -
[29]
I took a lot of time to design my character and intentionaly put all in charisma because all those trade and social skills were looking great. It is just that in game it is not as great as it looked like on creation screen... I cancelled subscription but it only ends by Feb 4th, so I can still change my mind :).
Thank you for all the efforts you have put in this patch, I just ask that balancing affects charisma skills in priority, as we are really second zone characters for now.
Negociation looks not very important but it is the only thing we have, as charisma based characters.
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Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2004.01.29 13:17:00 -
[30]
Quote:
As for rewards I made around 50 million isk in implants alone yesterday since patch (would be 120 million orso if i didnt end up selling my implants against bottom prices to my corp members)... Sure i cant use 1 agent anymore, but to be quite honost agents are now totally useless for anything besides farming em for implants. So why would i care about that? As soon as implant prices reach bottom levels im out of the agent business.
Also the stealth nerf of tools and rdbs kinda totally sucks, technically i had around 40 mil worth of that stuff. Now its worth a fraction of that.
The only thing somewhat positive about this patch is the fact that Zor is cool
Technically, you now have 160 mil worth of that stuff since now it's going to be trickling in much slower. The mineral value of them was however bugged, plain and simple.
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