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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:59:00 -
[31]
The people who tend to make a mistake and get ganked by concord falls in the newbie class.
The newbie class of player is the player that can least afford to replace a ship loss, so denying him insurance due to a mistake he made would be a harsh penalty.
The other instance where you can unwillingly get concorded is when you are repping someone and he had lockback on and accidentally activates an offensive module. You both get concorded (you are flagged as assisting the other pilot for some reason and get ganked too yeaaa).
The third reason while insurance should still remain is the same reason why 3 year old players are still in NPC corps. Unless these players join corporations like the rest of the eve population, the only way to engage them is to suicide gank.
So I give you a solution.
Devise a system to force out older players in NPC corporations. A steadily increasing tax on every transaction (market, production, reprocessing, ratting etc etc etc) would be one way to do it. Its the extra price you pay to being immune to wardecs. (it could scale that for each 1 million skill points you have the tax increases by 5%, newbies thus start at 0%, tax would cap out at 90%). Or another system, whatever; but players in player corporations should actually have more advantages in highsec than people in NPC corps.
Give insurance payouts to people ganked by concord up to five times. This is like, well you were a newbie and made a mistake doing it so here is your insurance. But if you do it more than 5 times you are obviously doing :suicide by cop: or suicide ganking or whatever and thus dont get any payout. It provides the nessisary 'newbie' buffer.
Unless players are forced out of NPC corporations, I cannot support any measure to nerf suicide ganking.
I consider suicide ganking and players sitting in NPC corporations problems linked, one cannot be fixed without the other getting fixed.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 26/07/2007 23:50:35
FFS this is EVE. EVE is supposed to be hardcore where stupid mistakes are punished harshly. The suicide gankers themselves use this to justify what they do to industrials carrying valuable stuff on autopilot. And getting yourself concorded is even MORE stupid than getting suicide ganked.
I got suicide ganked twice so far, once died once lived, didn't lose anything but chump change but still...
I never once was concorded in all my EVE life which includes n00b weeks with no clue whatsoever, half a lifetime of highsec missions and also some empire war pvp. Only very recently did I come close to calling concord to remove my stupid ass from the system but I avoided it just in time. (Having stargates on overview while CTRL-clicking WTs there with hot modules is stupid, mkay?)
So either this IS a hardcore game and stupidity/ignorance IS punished, meaning suicide ganks are fine and dandy, but there should not be insurance for being killed by concord. Or stupidity/ignorance is condoned, meaning you still get insurance for being concorded, but suicide ganking should also be made impossible. The double standards that most people in favor of suicide ganking but against insurance void for concord kills display in these kinds of threads are making me sick. Hypocritical selfish bigots all of them.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:57:00 -
[33]
suicide ganking is good for the escort buisness
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:54:00 -
[34]
no they should not, I suppose noone in empire war should either I guess, I don;nt care much either way though.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Grapez
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:25:00 -
[35]
No, /signed, /undersigned, /OVERSIGNED, etc, etc.
If people get popped by CONCORD for a mistake, well, they'll learn.
@º¬íí-T«+ºH
for all your political humor needs |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:27:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Grapez
No, /signed, /undersigned, /OVERSIGNED, etc, etc.
If people get popped by CONCORD for a mistake, well, they'll learn.
if players get ganked for a mistake, well, they should learn.
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:44:00 -
[37]
no they shouldn't get payout.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:46:00 -
[38]
but highsec freighter ganking is ok tbh..
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Grapez
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
if players get ganked for a mistake, well, they should learn.
Err, are we discussing that? I thought this was the thread about ship losses to CONCORD and insurance.
UNLESS!!11 HAS CONCORD STARTED GANKING PEOPLE!@!!???!
@º¬íí-T«+ºH
for all your political humor needs |
Mr Li
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:32:00 -
[40]
so because suicide gankers are breaking the law in high sec, then they shouldn't get the insurance payout? With this line of logic then why shouldn't insurance cost more for people will low sec status? And furthermore, why would -5 outlaws be allowed to insure at all?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mr Li
so because suicide gankers are breaking the law in high sec, then they shouldn't get the insurance payout? With this line of logic then why shouldn't insurance cost more for people will low sec status? And furthermore, why would -5 outlaws be allowed to insure at all?
cause i said so!
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:57:00 -
[42]
Oh I so like to repeat myself in every new 'insurance' thread.
So here it goes:
1. Make Concord smarter
2. Get rid or insurance payout for being killed by Concord.
I'm not sure whether EVE = harsh world = dumb Concord is the dev's supposition, though.
_________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Chaos Incarnate
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Posted - 2007.07.27 03:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 27/07/2007 03:58:40
Originally by: Kristen Ambrais
RL if the cops repossess your car and/or blow it up because they think its got a bomb in it you dont get the money back.
Neither should people who get concorded.
and IRL, my car has guns strapped to it and can travel faster than the speed of light
Seriously, its a game, the RL comparisons don't make any sense, as insurance is simply a game mechanic to limit ship replacement costs.
All this change would do is carebear up highsec even more. Ask yourselves the following question : if you stay in highsec, in an NPC corp, with a freighter carrying under the profitability-margin (~1b isk?) of cargo, with your changes, are you EVER going to be killed? I mean, no ones going to blow you up for the chance of a net loss, right?
In short, all this (probably mostly freighter) pilot QQ is just people wanting highsec to be nigh-on completely safe, rather than dealing with the very marginal risk there is when you use your brain and don't autopilot around.
Edit: oh, and to state it quite clearly, suicide gankers should get insurance, as well as a gold star and a pony 
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Asmosis
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hoshi
Yes, becuase not giving people who are killed by concord is a support nightmare. What about all the people the get kill by concord because of mistakes? I can assure you they outnumber the suicide gankers by a fair margin.
This is Eve.
You pay for your mistakes in this game unlike other carebear games where you get things handed to you on a fluffy pillow.
I vote remove insurance from players killed by concord.
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Barlaka
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:07:00 -
[45]
Easy fix
Introduce faction vs Your friendly insurance company, like NPC corps. Gank and die to concord a lot? Then less effective insurance.
Regular player gets concorded now and then, normal payout/coverage. Ganker wants to reform? it fixes the faction in the normal way.
Regular players covered, Ebil chronic gankers carry on with less/without our friendly insurance company.
Catch the bullet or carry the gun
The choice is yours |
Saint Lazarus
C R Y O
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:07:00 -
[46]
Yes they should, insurance isnt broken plzzzzzz dont nerf it =(
Also heres my whine will people STOP STOP STOP!!!! making real life comparions to EvE PLZZ!!! do you think it makes you sound smart? it dosent cause teh rest of us know this is a game, we dont WANT nor need everything to translate to real life.
------------------------------
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Eric Watson
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.27 16:01:00 -
[47]
No insurance if you are killed by CONCORD....and they should start podding as well (maybe based on your sec standing).
EVE is a hard game....it is time that CONCORD starting acting like it.
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Ki An
Gallente
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.27 16:32:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
The people who tend to make a mistake and get ganked by concord falls in the newbie class.
The newbie class of player is the player that can least afford to replace a ship loss, so denying him insurance due to a mistake he made would be a harsh penalty.
The other instance where you can unwillingly get concorded is when you are repping someone and he had lockback on and accidentally activates an offensive module. You both get concorded (you are flagged as assisting the other pilot for some reason and get ganked too yeaaa).
The third reason while insurance should still remain is the same reason why 3 year old players are still in NPC corps. Unless these players join corporations like the rest of the eve population, the only way to engage them is to suicide gank.
So I give you a solution.
Devise a system to force out older players in NPC corporations. A steadily increasing tax on every transaction (market, production, reprocessing, ratting etc etc etc) would be one way to do it. Its the extra price you pay to being immune to wardecs. (it could scale that for each 1 million skill points you have the tax increases by 5%, newbies thus start at 0%, tax would cap out at 90%). Or another system, whatever; but players in player corporations should actually have more advantages in highsec than people in NPC corps.
Give insurance payouts to people ganked by concord up to five times. This is like, well you were a newbie and made a mistake doing it so here is your insurance. But if you do it more than 5 times you are obviously doing :suicide by cop: or suicide ganking or whatever and thus dont get any payout. It provides the nessisary 'newbie' buffer.
Unless players are forced out of NPC corporations, I cannot support any measure to nerf suicide ganking.
I consider suicide ganking and players sitting in NPC corporations problems linked, one cannot be fixed without the other getting fixed.
^^ This.
/Ki
Remember kids:
Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Fenderson
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 17:40:00 -
[49]
is this really a big deal thats worth spending development resources over? i think not.
even if you remove insurance payout, suicide ganking will still be profitable and it will still happen. all you will have accomplished is to slightly shift the profit margin.
there are plenty of things you can do to protect yourself from suicide ganking and make your empire hauling 100% safe. You just cant do it afk and solo.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.07.27 18:50:00 -
[50]
Really, there should be no insurance at all. Pod piloting is carries far to high a risk. No insurance company would ever insure against such risk, unless at a much higher cost for much lower payout.
To address your point, in rl, (at least where I live) automobile insurance policies exclude coverage in certain circumstances, one of which is engaging in criminal acts. So if you want to use the rl perspective, then no, there should be no payout.
Interestingly, rl policies also exclude coverage for loss due to 'acts of war' which would probably knock out just about any payout. Come to think about it, we should pay more for insurance and almost never get a payout.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.07.27 19:04:00 -
[51]
Suicide ganking should not receive insurance payout or, in the case this is too complicated to implement due to other insurance issues, as has been exemplified by people on this thread, freighters should be boosted. Give them mid and lowslots so that they at least have some chance of tanking it out. If deemed necessary just invalidate cargo expander modules for ship class, but give them the possibility to armour and shield tank, as well as fit stabalizers, inertia dampers, whatever.
I agree with the premiss that high sec should have some risks, but serving freighters on a silver platter is unfair to anyone that flies them. And high security is still HIGH SECURITY, it should not require escorts. As it is now suicide gangs know they can kill any freighter they want, any time. And get insurance for it. This is wrong. Exact solutions I might not have, but lets at least agree it is a problem.
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.27 20:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Willow Whisp
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Hoshi
Yes, becuase not giving people who are killed by concord is a support nightmare. What about all the people the get kill by concord because of mistakes? I can assure you they outnumber the suicide gankers by a fair margin.
I'm certain that the number of people that used i-stabs "right" outnumbered the ones flying nanophoons.
Ah, right. So they went ahead and nerfed all the modules into oblivion. I'll tell you what, since we are going into unintended consequences, let's go ahead and remove insurance from the hauler that gets killed as well, since that would show neglect on the part of the person who stuffed enough isk into a paperthin courier venue to make it worthwhile suiciding.
lets go back to the time before there even was any insurance at all!
That was sweet!
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
I thought there would be american isk farmers over on eve china to be honest
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2007.07.27 20:05:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon
Insurance companies are independant comporations from concord. So I don't see any particular reason to not get it, aside from it helping to stop high sec ganking :P
dromidas insurance companies are also separate organizations from police departments. do however try to file an insurance claim for a car written off as a result of police gunfire during the commission of a felony. be sure to take a camera along to capture the look on the ins agent's face when he realizes you are indeed serious.
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cuteboylookingatyou
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Posted - 2007.08.19 21:36:00 -
[54]
Everyone deserves the insurance they paid for.
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2007.08.19 22:51:00 -
[55]
No.
If you gank in empire you know what you're doing and should not get paid other than in loot.
If you do something stupid and concord blasts you out of the sky for it, you should not be paid for stupidity.
POST WITH YOUR ALT! |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
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Posted - 2007.08.19 23:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Willow Whisp
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Hoshi
Yes, becuase not giving people who are killed by concord is a support nightmare. What about all the people the get kill by concord because of mistakes? I can assure you they outnumber the suicide gankers by a fair margin.
I'm certain that the number of people that used i-stabs "right" outnumbered the ones flying nanophoons.
Ah, right. So they went ahead and nerfed all the modules into oblivion. I'll tell you what, since we are going into unintended consequences, let's go ahead and remove insurance from the hauler that gets killed as well, since that would show neglect on the part of the person who stuffed enough isk into a paperthin courier venue to make it worthwhile suiciding.
Last time i checked freighterpilots can do very little to tank their ships. You don't have to fill the freighter/hauler with factionmods to be worthwhile for suicidegankers. As it is now most modules and materials on the market will make you a viable target if you fill your freighter with them.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -TheDagda ([email protected]) |
Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.08.19 23:22:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Soulita on 19/08/2007 23:22:55
"Should suicide gankers get insurance payout?"
No, of course not.
Silly question if ya think about it, no?
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Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.19 23:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 19/08/2007 23:22:55
"Should suicide gankers get insurance payout?"
No, of course not.
Silly question if ya think about it, no?
Should anyone get an insurance payout for a onetime 30% premium?
No, of course not.
Silly question if ya think about it, no?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Allestin Villimar
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Posted - 2007.08.20 00:22:00 -
[59]
I would say no. The game warns you any time you're about to do something concord will attack for unless you turn it off, so there's not much point in arguing "but the noobs!".
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Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2007.08.20 01:14:00 -
[60]
^very good point^
I agree no payments, anyone flying anything of value ought to know better, noobs being noobs and ignoring the warning they get arent out much a noobie ship and a few garbage mods.
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