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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.29 16:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dawson on 29/01/2004 16:42:00
Edited by: Dawson on 29/01/2004 16:41:01
Last night I was playing with one of my mates that is new to the game. I was situated at Planet X at Uhodoh in a raven showing him some simple safe comabt... or so i thought.
I had my drones out... and for some reason they started to atatck him... I think he put some form of aggression towards one of my drones so they all opened fire on him without my permission. The thing is we are in a gang so shouldnt all gang-mate friendly fire be be ignored by CONCORD?
Anyway there seems to be 2 bugs... one being drones attacking when they shouldnt be and the fact that concord then warped in scrambled me locked me down and blew up my raven class battleship that WASNT insured.
would it be possible to speak with a GM about this??
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:00:00 -
[2]
Just thought I best add Ive just lost a 100 million isk Ship due to the damn bug.
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Fortune Boo
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:10:00 -
[3]
LOL i just say LOL
Dont take offence but that sounds like a realy lol movie or comic =)
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Nwalmaer
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:26:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
The thing is we are in a gang so shouldnt all gang-mate friendly fire be be ignored by CONCORD?
Never been this way as far as I know. Don't understand why people think it works like that.
Also, Drones if not set to return and orbit will attack anything that attacks you.
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Tigersbane
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:34:00 -
[5]
I managed to get my 8 Wasps to attack me when I set off a Smartbomb while they were orbiting me  not fun. Needless to say I wont be doing that again in a hurry.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:36:00 -
[6]
Petition it.
Surely CONCORD would've attacked your friend for initiating aggression in the first place.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Halo Jones
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:39:00 -
[7]
Drones have always had that bold issue of attacking objects u target then launch drones againt.
The concord responce is as per normal, your drones attacked the chap, thus concord ganked you.
The first 'might' be a bug, but its been there for a while, ie drones autoresponce. The second is normal operation and in no way a bug.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Aiolos Caci
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Posted - 2004.01.29 17:40:00 -
[8]
This is such a crock of ****... Even if his drones were attacked and responded to an attack, CONCORD pigs have blown him apart for merely trying to protect himself against the agressor??? WTF is wrong with this picture people? He didn't even have anyone locked! Why didn't they attack his friend in that case, he was the one who supposedly opened fire???
GMs, please have some common sense, help the chap get his damn investment back. EVE logging leaves a lot to be desired, but you should have enough information to investigate what has really happened.
Dawson, you should really look into insuring your ships in the future...
Just my $2.0E-02
Aiolos Caci
RSD Navy VP
British Space Corp |
Inquisitus
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Posted - 2004.01.29 18:11:00 -
[9]
I agree with Aiolos. Even if the drones did attack his gang mate, they were only reacting to an act of agression towards them.
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Karga
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Posted - 2004.01.29 20:04:00 -
[10]
Despite a petition, theyll just inform you that they dont have the tools to verify the claim and cant do anything to help you.
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Arrik
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:33:00 -
[11]
As I understand it, and this held true as of version umm...1252 I think, aggression against a gangmate was still aggression - it's aggression vs CORPmates which is ignored. I have seen this effect in action, albeit not in the last two patches. I believe missiles *might* be a special case though.
Further, Drones being NPCs, I suspect they are not subject to the same rules of aggression as players - i.e. aggression towards them doesn't count (same as with cans - object owned by player, but aggression towards owned object does not provoke response).
BUT an aggressive act by a drone owned by a player is counted as an act of aggression - Objects owned by a player which perform an aggressive act are treated as the player performing the act (thus same code can be used for missiles, and in future, sentry guns).
So this highlights two major problems:
1) The common misunderstanding over whether gangmates are included under the "friendly fire" banner. This should perhaps be cleared up by making both gang and corpmates immune to retribution caused by friendly fire.
2) That objects owned by players need an additional flag indicating aggressive capability. Objects with this flag should be treated as the player if an aggressive act is performed against them - i.e. someone attacks your drones in high sec space, he (or perhaps the aggressive object?) gets jumped by the cops.
Does any of that make sense?
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:46:00 -
[12]
Yeah I thought as much about the Freindly fire within gang mates.
But I still never gave any orders to atatck anyone they just went of and did it, mabe splash damage made them attack him. Fact is they went and attacked him due to some sort of agression towards them so why has concord attacked me? They shouldnt have.
And I was going to do a pertition but there aint enough room to tell the happenings so I posted here. Is there a email or something I can use to email a Gm what happened or something?
Better yet if polaris or a GM could mabe eve mail me there mail.
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Iron Pimp
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:53:00 -
[13]
Sure, just to repeat the forementioned:
1. If someone attacks a player, in a form of a direct attack, or an attack agains't player's drones, CONCORD should blow apart the attacker, and not the damn unsuspecting chap who comes over to a noob sector, taking time to introduce his fellow players to the basics of combat, without blowing them apart or even putting them at risk for that matter...
2. Gangmates inflicting damage upon each other should be treated as corpmates, basically ignored. Think about it, who in the right mind would gang up with a pirate (unless you are a pirate yourself), or someone with a negative security rating that you know nothing about? Only retards... and I'm a true supporter of natural selection principle amongst fellow EVEians 
I just can't wait till CCP comes back with a lame excuse of not being able to tell what really happened there, or some Role Playing $h1t3 about CONCORD corruption... If they can't really tell what happened, how the hell do they catch people using exploits??? Oh wait, they can't do it either... What CAN they do? - Collect our money, and build luxurious igloos... 
GM(s), at least please have enough respect for your customers to post a reply... I wonder what comes out of the whole thing. |
Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:07:00 -
[14]
You have hit that rite on the nail Pimp... nothing more to add... just need a GM's reply now, or email to discus this further.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:11:00 -
[15]
petition it, but just a blunt outline, then a gm will ask for what details he needs and if it is a bug then your ship will be replaced....ccps logs show if you pushed a button to attack, if the other guy attacked your first or if the drones decided to have some fun and watch you die. Coming to the forums to discuss it is not going to solve your problem. From my personal experience ccp is really quick at replacing stuff lost due to bugs (ctd not included as it cannot be proven).
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lickspittle
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Posted - 2004.01.30 07:43:00 -
[16]
Can you talk to your mate and ask him what he did to your drones? Yes, CONCORD should have attacked him and not you if he did something to trigger your drones to defend you. If anyone has any information on how to reproduce this problem, please email it to [email protected]
Gang membership does give a benefit in terms of combat interaction with co-members, but not as many as belonging to a player corporation does.
- If someone aggresses against a fellow gang member of yours, you should be able to join in the attack on the aggressor without repercussions.
When killing an NPC who gives bounties, the bounty will be shared by all the nearby gang members.
-- Richard
CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2004.01.30 14:48:00 -
[17]
afaik:
Initiating hostility against a Corp member (in gang or not) will have no CONCORD intervention.
But initiating hostility against a Gang member who is not in your Corp will have CONCORD swooping in.
A lot of people mistakenly think these two are the same. It is not.
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.30 15:58:00 -
[18]
Ok thx alot for your help. I will speak with him and find out. Will email you later today.
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Lucas Bowman
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Posted - 2004.01.30 20:45:00 -
[19]
I'm not so sure we're done with this issue. I was affording some protection to some corp mates during a mining op. One other member had some combat drones out, to assist. Once the rats were destroyed, I noticed that his drones all began attacking one of his other drones. Once that drone was destroyed, they all turned on me. I was never targetted by my teammate nor was I using any weapon that could cause splash damage. I think there's something buggy in the new algorythms for hostile targets.
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.31 03:28:00 -
[20]
Thats exactly the same thing that happened to me... if 2 of use experinced it i think we mite havea probblem here. For me to be honest Orignally definatly 1 of my drones started flying off by itself to attack my gang mate... followed later by the rest of the squad at first it was just one single drone... And iam difinetly sure i didnt give any order to that 1. It seemed to have am ind of its own.
Anyway ive just spoke to my mate he thinks he mistakenly locked onto one of my Drones thinking it was a pirate. As I said before hes new to the game and at that point only had it for a day or so.
This could of been why they all flew over to him. Though to be perfectly honnest I think it was due to something else. This is due to the fact earlyer on n the night I also had my drones out and they did the same thing or something similar, they had just flew of by themselfs and attacked some pirates... diffrence is I thought nothing off it since they were attacking pirates but I definatly gave no order.
Anyway gonna send that mail now :D
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.01.31 03:46:00 -
[21]
lickspittle said:
"If someone aggresses against a fellow gang member of yours, you should be able to join in the attack on the aggressor without repercussions."
Uhm, no. Should, but doesn't and never has worked this way.
If my gang warps to a gate, some rat shoots gangmate A and then gangmate B shoots rat, then sentries promptly vaporize gangmate B.
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.31 03:54:00 -
[22]
Theres some definatly probblems with ganging and drones. I donno about you lot but I feel if Iam in a gang with lets say some alliance to help out with pirate threats as I have done in the past, I want to be confident knowing that if mistakenly I hit one of my freinds due to splash damage or what ever Iam not gonna recive a security status hit or in the higher controlled areas have concord wipe me out.
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Freya Jones
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Posted - 2004.01.31 05:38:00 -
[23]
Hold Up!
OK, so a corp member can attack you without CONCORD jumping in? What about sentry guns? I was in an NPC corporation (still am actually) and Jus2awesome happened to qualify to also be in it at the time (shortly after Castor went live). I was running through Amamake and he blew me up and podkilled me. At the time a friend of mine told me that he just used an exploit to kill me. So I petitioned it, and a GM said no exploit was commited, BECAUSE THE SENTRY GUNS WOULD HAVE RESPONDED REGARDLESS...
At the time, I just took it as a painful lesson learned (lost 40+ million in implants... ouch). If he was exploiting me and got away with it, I am now completely perturbed...  
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Dawson
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Posted - 2004.01.31 18:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dawson on 03/02/2004 00:01:57
Edited by: Dawson on 03/02/2004 00:01:08
Hmmmm concord wont attack u if your in the same corp.. My corp do it all the time first person to drop sheilds wins etc etc.
edit... slip of the hand ment to put if your in the same corp not gang.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.01.31 19:18:00 -
[25]
"Hmmmm concord wont attack u if your in the same gang.. My corp do it all the time first person to drop sheilds wins etc etc."
You can attack people of your own corp with no consequences. Doesn't matter if you are in gang with them or not.
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Misa Joe
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Posted - 2004.02.02 13:57:00 -
[26]
i once attacke a gang member of mine with one warior I drone and shot 2 shots at him, in 0.5 space, just scratched his shields, but concord came and attacked my dominix, i luckily got in warp to a stargate and concord followed me amd when me shiled was out i luckily jumped to anoher system
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Darkbit
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Posted - 2004.02.02 15:50:00 -
[27]
Quote:
"Hmmmm concord wont attack u if your in the same gang.. My corp do it all the time first person to drop sheilds wins etc etc."
You can attack people of your own corp with no consequences. Doesn't matter if you are in gang with them or not.
Well I was in .4 space and I was ganged with a corp buddy and I shot him once and concord came scrambled my warp and Blew me 2 pieces. Then they proceeded to blow my friend up. I petitioned and the GMs gave me the canned response of we do not have the info to prove it. Um..  Oh well I didnt want that cruiser anyway. 
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fras
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Posted - 2004.02.02 16:56:00 -
[28]
My drones are seriously bugged since patch. They sometimes take damage when I launch them with absolutely noone around and no weapons being fired of any kind.
They randomly attack asteroids and basically any object within range.
They don't appear to repair properly.
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Ada Isdead
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Posted - 2004.02.02 17:49:00 -
[29]
Quote:
afaik:
Initiating hostility against a Corp member (in gang or not) will have no CONCORD intervention.
But initiating hostility against a Gang member who is not in your Corp will have CONCORD swooping in.
A lot of people mistakenly think these two are the same. It is not.
So are the support pages wrong then?:
http://support.eve-online.com/cgi-bin/eve_online.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=uk4-LS2h&p_lva=&p_faqid=286
If the pages are wrong then they should be fixed.
If they are right then it's a bug.
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Mark A
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Posted - 2004.02.03 05:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mark A on 03/02/2004 05:43:26
Well spotted Ada.
BTW, it's well known a gang only shares bounty between gang members who are at the same celestial object. I've heard that the aggression thing works the same way, ie you need to be right there when the aggression starts (and not still exiting warp for instance) for it to count.
*edit* ...which kinda sucks. I vote that it counts the same as corp members like the FAQ says, particularly as different corps are often in the same combat gang, and even a formal alliance system wouldn't solve this problem.
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